Once Upon A Killer Mafia (14/17) A Writers Block:Endgame

[StorrZerg]

hmm post didnt come up when i posted. checking it out now

[UltrasPlot]

Gah forgot to include this.

Unlynch No Lynch

FoS No Lynch (aka still in favor)

[StorrZerg]

virus checked in... didn't like the entrance.

[UltrasPlot]

Where'd he check in?

[StorrZerg]

last page, and you need to reread the filter of zivel. he clearly points out why lynching day 1 is good. and even "cites" his reasoning. Thus, imo his push on you isn't that unwarranted, and continued to dsiscuss lynching on day 1.

Also i beleive strike wolf has also advocated on lynchying day 1.

ANd i have. you have said i have

making full thoughtful posts

ANd i've explained many times why i think lynching is good. (several others have as well)

and instead of engaging in the discussion, you keep going back to

Again, what makes this a lynchable offense?

I do like your attempt at making reads. I can agree with dd5/streaker kinda empty. i would think dd5 would be higher on your scum list since, he has fallen off and hasn't really done anything.

@ulta, i made a pretty detailed read on crasp, care to give me your thoughts on that read in particular? do you agree with it? why/ why not?

[aage]

Long post, sorry.

I think it is a huge mistake to vote someone merely because they were online and read the thread... Maybe he was on a smartphone, which sucks to type on... Maybe he ran out of time. Admittedly, Virus is usually a more active player- i.e., in the past- but there are lots of times I have seen people keep up with the game and yet not post... Storr, what I see is you literally attacking each and every person you can and wait for what the response is... That makes you look scummy, because it makes it look like you are just trying to start bandwagon after bandwagon. If you were truly firm in the beliefs you held, you would not be so quick to give them up...

VOte: Storr

Strange pattern. Storr votes you, you're fine with it. Storr removes the vote, and only then you 'return fire'.
This is a stupid vote, lynching Storr right now would give us the least amount of information imo. Besides, this wagon-changing behaviour is actually pretty much what I expected from him on D1, and he has lived up to that the entire game, switching between suspicion and reads on nearly every player in the game. He doesn't even lead the bandwagons; his only previous vote was on you. And for that, you want to lynch him? Or is this vote just a statement?
Secondly, on bandwagons. The more the merrier. I'd be very happy to know who would be willing to wagon on any player. Lists of players who are down to pressure or lynch others early and/or late provides very useful alignment indicative information. It also doesn't matter if we steer away from any number of wagons before the day is over, because this game basically uses plurality lynch rules:

2. Voting, Lynching, and Ending the Day
a. All votes and unvotes must be in color and I would really prefer bold. If they are not, they will not be tallied.
b. You are not required to unvote before placing a new vote.
c. Lynching requires a majority of the town vote, once the majority has been reached any unvotes will not be counted. The majority is half the player's alive +1.
d. You may vote ‘no lynch’ to end the day without a death.
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

So that argument is bull. I will FoS.

For the record, and this doesn't apply to Nark alone, I really believe people are being a bit too liberal with their lynching vote. Applying pressure can be done easily without voting, as per Storr's entire activity log this day.

unvote forgot my vote was still on Nark. As far as Fake Claims, I tend to believe that town has the right to know if they are being used.

Call me crazy but what good does that do for us let alone scumhunt right now? Seen a couple other posts about this and Im not really getting the point of it.

Virus being AFK doesnt mean anything yet hopefully hell be replaced. Never seen him mis a game start before and hes usually an easy read so I hope he comes back.

Anyone around right now to talk about shit? I dont feel like reading through the massive texts of walls some of you are putting up like are you guys robots are something?

I agree with the sentiment on fake claims, it won't change day 1, all information is welcome but the mod refuses so end of story. Pushing the mod for it after he deliberately dodged the question is weird though, like you're trying to prove you're trying to help the town without running the risk of actually helping the town. So Strike and pcm, slightly scummy behaviour.


Virus post

well im there, dont you worry.
kind of disturbing that mtam thinks im an easy read, makes me doubt if im really that bad a player...
also i disagree with the logic of: "he is online --> so he has definatly read everything and is supposed to write a message" sometimes reading 3 pages and responding is not alligned with the time frame you have in mind at that moment for the game, but maybe thats just me. (also that is exactly the point why i removed that ability in whatsapp, cause people say your online so why dont you respond... so i might decide to do the same here soon, im pretty sure its a tactical adventage for mafia to disable that ability)
and besides i hate day 1, and im usually highly inactive day 1. last game proved why thats better for me (i got caught being scum that game while being active), so i generally dont comment to much day 1 since i am a bit to straight forward for some people and i always get some votes on me for speaking out what i think (or being enthousiastic )

anyway about this game,
Ultra is pointing on a no lynch for arguments i think are valid, although i dont agree. so basicly i dont want to vote ultra.
also i disagree with hotshot reasoning of the day 1 mislynch --> does it provide information about the mafia? in my opinion, it is not that hard for mafia to split votes among several people day 1, generally day 1 a town majority decides to lynch someone, even if they target a mafia player generaly some of the mafia are on that wagon aswell, just to gain town creds, and later be able to say that they lynched that person SO they are town. so in my opinion it is possible that day 1 voting patterns give information, but it is also easily rigged.

Being an easy read doesn't make you a bad player, it's actually very useful if you're town.
I suggest you do switch on ghost mode, I've had it on for as long as I can remember for this exact reason. Being online or not doesn't correlate to alignment imo, and I excuse the votes of Storr and Crasp because I believe they were cast to pressure you into posting.
Day 1 wagons are usually riddled with mafia, I recall a huge game quite some time ago in which Town had a one-shot role that could tell how many mafia were on a lynch. The player used it on the first day and caught 6 of the 8 mafia on the D1 wagon. Ever since that game, I firmly believe D1 lynches are important to town because mafia usually carelessly jump on them. The mafia coordinating a voting pattern on day 1 is rare.
If the D1 lynch is not a mislynch, it doesn't really matter who were on the wagon because you successfully lynched a mafia. Analysis from that wagon is just a bonus.


I don't know why we are still debating whether no lynch is better or worse than D1 lynch, a clear majority of the players seems in favour so Ultra and AoG might as well drop it, it does town no good to debate it further.

On Storr.
I currently have a town read on him due to his constant pursuit of discussion. However, apparently that's part of his general strategy, so I should cancel that out. All I know is that I am slightly less suspicious of the people going after him. If he is mafia, throwing him under the bus would be bad for his teammates because he seems capable of steering a lynch. If he is town, I don't think mafia would actively pick a fight with the most active towny only to have that backfire on them when he flips town. So I am less suspicious of most people going after Storr individually. (That means: people using original material to attack him, rather than people who endorse the pushes others make against him.)

[StorrZerg]

Aage, can you comment on my crasp read?

[aage]

Aage, can you comment on my crasp read?

Sure.

I don't care for his count-post, if you pay attention you will know who is scumarining and who is not regardless of a count like that. I believe posting such general game information is scummy because everyone has access to it, especially since he analyses jack shit from it. I share his sentiments regarding Ultra as I indicated earlier. His analyses of pcm and Streaker are also spot on, I don't appreciate early voting without triggering a discussion because we have more than enough time on our hands for both. I like that he shows he wants to play the early game as well, and I like his critical stance towards your questions. I agree on your final read but not on your analysis of the count-post.

[mtamburini]

I cant believe Im gonna say this but Im glad deadline is in 9 days, Im only confident in storr being town and leaning scummy on AOG. Ive already explained AOG, he was the second to vote NL and it only seems like ultra is getting the most slack from it and he is only getting a slap on the wrist. As for storr, he is leading town in a way that I like to lead to get my reads by pressuring and asking questions, but Im just not getting anything from discussion yet. Talking about mechanics and good plays on day 1 and bad plays are boring and should never be brought up IMO its useless chatter, make a forum post about it in the mafia handbook section or w/e section of the main thread it should be under.

There are a lot of people who I have null reads on and then there are people who I have no reads on.

Poking at milkshake, and DD for starters.

[Anarkistsdream]

Actually, aage, you bring up a really good point that I honestly can't find any OTHER reference to reading back through the thread...

Rishaed, you wrote:
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

A lynch of whom? For what? Will it only be people who have already had votes against them? Will it be completely random? If an arbitrary lynch is going to be enforced regardless of the players' votes, then that makes the No Lynch that much more of a possibility. I think this rule needs to be clarified for us before too much more time passes.

As for my vote on Storr, of course it was for the point, and not for the vote... I wouldn't want him voted out at this point because he DOES progress play a considerable amount, although I personally still DO like joke voting and have a good time the first few days of the game, especially when each "Day" is going to be so long. There is no need to hit the ground running and start attacking people. Let people relax and test the waters. But, that is the way Storr has always played, so... Whatev... Also, my defense of Virus was completely valid, as anybody who tried to use their phone on forums usually ends up with problems... After I made that fact in my defense of Storr, I have noticed several people say the same thing.

I will now finish with something I usually have to say. Post counts don't matter on their own. Post content does not matter on its own... Only by viewing both the post counts with their content can any analysis of people truly be made... And, when only 4 or 5 players have several posts with decent content in each one, that leaves 3/4 of the players to sneak by, regardless of whether they are town or scum or third-party...

Now, I know a few of us have more inside information on this game then others... I think it is prudent that we don't spend day after day watching Storr attack- er, I mean "analyze"- other players styles because they don't play like him. Instead, we need to try and work out what info people already have and start from there. It will be much more helpful in the later stages of the game, especially if people with info are killed, which is most likely the case. So, with that being said, instead of worrying about sane cops, insane cops, busdrivers, blah blah blah... What can people concretely give us about the game??? Because I know at least a few of you have more info, and, if you are town or third-party that can win with town, it would behoove you to come forward with it. Until then, I think the only thing that is really going to help us progress in this game is Night One...

[Anarkistsdream]

I cant believe Im gonna say this but Im glad deadline is in 9 days, It certainly has good and bad points... I think overall I am glad for the long first day, as well. Im only confident in storr being town and leaning scummy on AOG. Ive already explained AOG, he was the second to vote NL and it only seems like ultra is getting the most slack from it and he is only getting a slap on the wrist. As for storr, he is leading town in a way that I like to lead to get my reads by pressuring and asking questions, but Im just not getting anything from discussion yet.But he plays like this no matter what, so if you think that he is "leading town," then you are mistaken Talking about mechanics and good plays on day 1 and bad plays are boring and should never be brought up IMO its useless chatter, make a forum post about it in the mafia handbook section or w/e section of the main thread it should be under. Mechanics always matter in the games, though, because slight variations in game rules that people take for granted can lead to horrible outcomes...

There are a lot of people who I have null reads on and then there are people who I have no reads on.

Poking at milkshake, and DD for starters.

[mtamburini]

I cant believe Im gonna say this but Im glad deadline is in 9 days, It certainly has good and bad points... I think overall I am glad for the long first day, as well. Im only confident in storr being town and leaning scummy on AOG. Ive already explained AOG, he was the second to vote NL and it only seems like ultra is getting the most slack from it and he is only getting a slap on the wrist. As for storr, he is leading town in a way that I like to lead to get my reads by pressuring and asking questions, but Im just not getting anything from discussion yet.But he plays like this no matter what, so if you think that he is "leading town," then you are mistaken Talking about mechanics and good plays on day 1 and bad plays are boring and should never be brought up IMO its useless chatter, make a forum post about it in the mafia handbook section or w/e section of the main thread it should be under. Mechanics always matter in the games, though, because slight variations in game rules that people take for granted can lead to horrible outcomes...

There are a lot of people who I have null reads on and then there are people who I have no reads on.

Poking at milkshake, and DD for starters.

What kind of experience do you have playing with storr that you can tell the difference in his play?

[Anarkistsdream]

I cant believe Im gonna say this but Im glad deadline is in 9 days, It certainly has good and bad points... I think overall I am glad for the long first day, as well. Im only confident in storr being town and leaning scummy on AOG. Ive already explained AOG, he was the second to vote NL and it only seems like ultra is getting the most slack from it and he is only getting a slap on the wrist. As for storr, he is leading town in a way that I like to lead to get my reads by pressuring and asking questions, but Im just not getting anything from discussion yet.But he plays like this no matter what, so if you think that he is "leading town," then you are mistaken Talking about mechanics and good plays on day 1 and bad plays are boring and should never be brought up IMO its useless chatter, make a forum post about it in the mafia handbook section or w/e section of the main thread it should be under. Mechanics always matter in the games, though, because slight variations in game rules that people take for granted can lead to horrible outcomes...

There are a lot of people who I have null reads on and then there are people who I have no reads on.

Poking at milkshake, and DD for starters.

What kind of experience do you have playing with storr that you can tell the difference in his play?

Multiple games with his name as Storr and his previous name which escapes me at the moment... He wasn't always StorrZerg here, and, if you didn't know that, then it proves that I have the experience.

[mtamburini]

We know eachother IRL so theres that.

[Anarkistsdream]

We know eachother IRL so theres that.

So then why are you asking? We have played tons of games together... Sounds to me like there is a significant conflict of interest in you two defending or harassing each other at all as you two DO know each other... That makes me even less likely to trust your arguments toward one another.

[aage]

Actually, aage, you bring up a really good point that I honestly can't find any OTHER reference to reading back through the thread...

Rishaed, you wrote:
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

A lynch of whom? For what? Will it only be people who have already had votes against them? Will it be completely random? If an arbitrary lynch is going to be enforced regardless of the players' votes, then that makes the No Lynch that much more of a possibility. I think this rule needs to be clarified for us before too much more time passes.

I agree that it should be clarified, but I doubt that any of the options you suggest are true, and honestly I doubt that you do too. You're right that it doesn't literally say "the person with the most votes is lynched", but that does seem to be the most logical conclusion.

As for my vote on Storr, of course it was for the point, and not for the vote... I wouldn't want him voted out at this point because he DOES progress play a considerable amount, although I personally still DO like joke voting and have a good time the first few days of the game, especially when each "Day" is going to be so long. There is no need to hit the ground running and start attacking people. Let people relax and test the waters. But, that is the way Storr has always played, so... Whatev... Also, my defense of Virus was completely valid, as anybody who tried to use their phone on forums usually ends up with problems... After I made that fact in my defense of Storr, I have noticed several people say the same thing.

I never attacked you on your defence of Virus, I agree that phones are horrible with this forum. That's why I never post on my phone any more.
As for your vote, I can see that you were making a point but as I said in my earlier reply, voting means endorsing a lynch. You could have forced Storr to reply without the vote, I think, so casting one only makes you seem to play a drama card.

Now, I know a few of us have more inside information on this game then others... I think it is prudent that we don't spend day after day watching Storr attack- er, I mean "analyze"- other players styles because they don't play like him. Instead, we need to try and work out what info people already have and start from there. It will be much more helpful in the later stages of the game, especially if people with info are killed, which is most likely the case. So, with that being said, instead of worrying about sane cops, insane cops, busdrivers, blah blah blah... What can people concretely give us about the game??? Because I know at least a few of you have more info, and, if you are town or third-party that can win with town, it would behoove you to come forward with it. Until then, I think the only thing that is really going to help us progress in this game is Night One...

Rolefishing, really?

FP
I don't see a conflict of interest, why would an RL relationship cause a bias? Do you think it's a conflict of interest if several people from the same clan play in the same game? What about people who are friendly or have played together longer?

[StorrZerg]

Rishaed honestly shouldn't answer how he is going to enforce it. Since this should never happen. If we approach the end of a day phase (ffs they are 10 daydays long) so 24-48 hours, I'm sure we will have narrowed what to do.

Honestly it be nice to have a lynch before wed. But activity level from half the players is terrible.

[Anarkistsdream]

Rishaed honestly shouldn't answer how he is going to enforce it. Since this should never happen. If we approach the end of a day phase (ffs they are 10 daydays long) so 24-48 hours, I'm sure we will have narrowed what to do.

Honestly it be nice to have a lynch before wed. But activity level from half the players is terrible.

The first thing we have agreed upon... hah

[mtamburini]

We know eachother IRL so theres that.

So then why are you asking? We have played tons of games together... Sounds to me like there is a significant conflict of interest in you two defending or harassing each other at all as you two DO know each other... That makes me even less likely to trust your arguments toward one another.

I want to know how you develop your reads if they are coming from thin air or not. You did something similar with pancake in the beginning of this game and you do it in other games you are in with eachother so what point are you trying to make exactly>?

[StorrZerg]

I cant believe Im gonna say this but Im glad deadline is in 9 days, It certainly has good and bad points... I think overall I am glad for the long first day, as well. Im only confident in storr being town and leaning scummy on AOG. Ive already explained AOG, he was the second to vote NL and it only seems like ultra is getting the most slack from it and he is only getting a slap on the wrist. As for storr, he is leading town in a way that I like to lead to get my reads by pressuring and asking questions, but Im just not getting anything from discussion yet.But he plays like this no matter what, so if you think that he is "leading town," then you are mistaken Talking about mechanics and good plays on day 1 and bad plays are boring and should never be brought up IMO its useless chatter, make a forum post about it in the mafia handbook section or w/e section of the main thread it should be under. Mechanics always matter in the games, though, because slight variations in game rules that people take for granted can lead to horrible outcomes...

There are a lot of people who I have null reads on and then there are people who I have no reads on.

Poking at milkshake, and DD for starters.

What kind of experience do you have playing with storr that you can tell the difference in his play?

Multiple games with his name as Storr and his previous name which escapes me at the moment... He wasn't always StorrZerg here, and, if you didn't know that, then it proves that I have the experience.

how many games have we played anark?

[rishaed]

Actually, aage, you bring up a really good point that I honestly can't find any OTHER reference to reading back through the thread...

Rishaed, you wrote:
e. Without a Majority I will enforce a Lynch.

A lynch of whom? For what? Will it only be people who have already had votes against them? Will it be completely random? If an arbitrary lynch is going to be enforced regardless of the players' votes, then that makes the No Lynch that much more of a possibility. I think this rule needs to be clarified for us before too much more time passes.

The Person with the most votes on them at the end of the day will be lynched.

[pancakemix]

personally i don't even have a read on on you............... all your nl talk its null and doesn't mean anything imo. since i believe that to be a policy you would follow regardless of your alignment. since that is something you are used to on another forum.

I don't buy this. You have to have some type of opinion on him one way or another, and your opinion of the NL argument can easily become your opinion on Ultra. You, who make mountains out of molehills, HAVE to feel some way about Ultra's play.

I agree with the sentiment on fake claims, it won't change day 1, all information is welcome but the mod refuses so end of story. Pushing the mod for it after he deliberately dodged the question is weird though, like you're trying to prove you're trying to help the town without running the risk of actually helping the town. So Strike and pcm, slightly scummy behaviour.

I've always been partial to straight answers, personally. It's the kind of thing where a question mark only helps the mafia, because all it does is add another level of uncertainty regarding claims.

As a mod, I tend to believe coming up with believable fakeclaims is a vital skill for mafia, so if there aren't any fakes or even partial fakes it's neither here nor there. It'dd just be nice to know, dontcha think?

Rishaed honestly shouldn't answer how he is going to enforce it. Since this should never happen. If we approach the end of a day phase (ffs they are 10 daydays long) so 24-48 hours, I'm sure we will have narrowed what to do.

Honestly it be nice to have a lynch before wed. But activity level from half the players is terrible.

That's stupid. It's like not having a contingency for who succeeds a dying president because it SHOULDN'T happen. You have a similar rule in your games about lynches without majority; how often do those get invoked?

Yes, we should lynch someone rather than having Rish do it, but what happens if he has to should be defined. Why would you not want it defined?

(said definition had been posted before I got that far in the thread)

[StorrZerg]

pcm when your going to quote a partial pm, please include who said the quote, some of it isn't out right obvious.

as for ultra he has since actually made reads on the game, and i did comment. why are you skimming and nit picking needlessly? I've probably put forth the most reads out of anyone as of this point, and you attack when i have "yet to form an opinion on someone"

Mod has announced what will happen at end of day. So it isn't "him deciding" its still, who ever holds the most votes even if it isn't majority.

[mtamburini]

pcm when your going to quote a partial pm, please include who said the quote, some of it isn't out right obvious.

as for ultra he has since actually made reads on the game, and i did comment. why are you skimming and nit picking needlessly? I've probably put forth the most reads out of anyone as of this point, and you attack when i have "yet to form an opinion on someone"

Mod has announced what will happen at end of day. So it isn't "him deciding" its still, who ever holds the most votes even if it isn't majority.

RNG mod lynches would have been fun.

#fingerscrossed4RNGMAFIAMODLYNCH

[UltrasPlot]

Storr give me a couple minutes to check. (I like how everyone lynching me has pretty much not posted for a while...)