[GP/UI] Automatic Game Start Snapshots

[GroningenGN]

Can you PLEASE fix the snapshot system so that it takes a snapshot BEFORE the opponent plays his first round? This is essential for the other player(s) in Fox of War games, because even though the log tells you you have been attacked, it does not say where. This means you can't judge whether the opponent has conquered a bonus region.
This brings me to my second point: in stead of showing '?', the log should tell you the name. Of the country if it. Was conquered from YOU.
Both these suggestions aren't cheating or taking anything away from the Fogx of War games, because they can be done manually. But the problem is that to do this you have to sit behind your screen and keep refreshing until your opponent decides to move. This can be quite tiring if he decides to wait 23 hours.
Thanks

Concise description:

• Snapshot before round 1

Specifics/Details:

• Take a snapshot automatically before the opponent does his first round move.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• It makes it more comfortable

[GroningenGN]

hallo

[Dukasaur]

Agreed.

[Endgame422]

Auto snaps as soon as the game starts seem like a no-brainer to me. No more silly 12 hour fog rule in wars and tournaments and no more waiting. Excellent suggestion.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yeah, this has been suggested before, but the CC tends to kick this super convenient suggestion down the road.

[JamesKer1]

The problem with this (that I'm aware of at least) was that BOB wouldn't function unless the game was opened, so it was never incorporated into BOB. Something similar may be happening for CC and panels

[Dukasaur]

The problem with this (that I'm aware of at least) was that BOB wouldn't function unless the game was opened, so it was never incorporated into BOB. Something similar may be happening for CC and panels

The work-around for this is that it doesn't have to. As long as it recognises when the first player starts his turn, and takes a cycle of snapshots (one from each player's perspective) at that time, it should work.

[jonofperu]

wouldn't an automatic snapshot at the START of a game be very useful as well? No more stupid 12-hr fog rule.

This would be awesome.
Very useful. Improves play.
Not sure if it's clear in the thread, but if there's ONE feature to implement here I think it's this.

[DaveH]

Snapshots to avoid 12 Hour Fog Waiting Time Rule

Concise description:
Automatic snapshot at start, available to each player

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• Avoids 12 hour wait
• Overcomes problems when players forget to wait
• Saves time for investigating and ruling on breaches of the rule

[Metsfanmax]

I have got no problem with having automatic snapshots at initialization being installed (see viewtopic.php?f=471&t=192998 for more details), but I am not convinced that we should be going out of our way to implement things to assist people who enforce fictitious rules.

[betiko]

I have got no problem with having automatic snapshots at initialization being installed (see http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 1&t=192998 for more details), but I am not convinced that we should be going out of our way to implement things to assist people who enforce fictitious rules.

some people experienced trench before it was implemented by gentleman agreement. you could call that a "fictious rule" too, but now it's an official rule if you chose the setting.
Nevertheless, Is there any legitimity for you to give a judgement given that you never played games at a high level and you don't understand how crucial it is?

[Metsfanmax]

I have got no problem with having automatic snapshots at initialization being installed (see viewtopic.php?f=471&t=192998 for more details), but I am not convinced that we should be going out of our way to implement things to assist people who enforce fictitious rules.

some people experienced trench before it was implemented by gentleman agreement. you could call that a "fictious rule" too, but now it's an official rule if you chose the setting.

I have no problem with people instituting agreements among themselves to play the game however they want, as long as it's within the normal site rules. But why do we do need to go out of our way to help you do that? If people are abiding by your gentleman's agreement, we don't need to implement it. If they're not, don't play with them.

Nevertheless, Is there any legitimity for you to give a judgement given that you never played games at a high level and you don't understand how crucial it is?

I understand that my CC e-score-penis is not quite as large as yours, but that doesn't make me incapable of understanding what effect the snapshots have on the game. But please wise one, if you think I do not, educate me.

[betiko]

I have got no problem with having automatic snapshots at initialization being installed (see viewtopic.php?f=471&t=192998 for more details), but I am not convinced that we should be going out of our way to implement things to assist people who enforce fictitious rules.

some people experienced trench before it was implemented by gentleman agreement. you could call that a "fictious rule" too, but now it's an official rule if you chose the setting.

I have no problem with people instituting agreements among themselves to play the game however they want, as long as it's within the normal site rules. But why do we do need to go out of our way to help you do that? If people are abiding by your gentleman's agreement, we don't need to implement it. If they're not, don't play with them.

Nevertheless, Is there any legitimity for you to give a judgement given that you never played games at a high level and you don't understand how crucial it is?

I understand that my CC e-score-penis is not quite as large as yours, but that doesn't make me incapable of understanding what effect the snapshots have on the game. But please wise one, if you think I do not, educate me.

1) what exactly would be the downside of making automatic screenshots on a game that just started? just reply to this simple question.

2) I'm not going to waste my time explaining why having a snapshot when the game starts makes it more fair. Apparently you are smart enough to understand it by yourself

[Metsfanmax]

1) what exactly would be the downside of making automatic screenshots on a game that just started? just reply to this simple question.

I already answered it, try reading better next time please.

I have got no problem with having automatic snapshots at initialization being installed

2) I'm not going to waste my time explaining why having a snapshot when the game starts makes it more fair. Apparently you are smart enough to understand it by yourself

What does it matter that it's "more fair?" There are plenty of ways to make the game more fair -- we could remove the dice, or we could reduce the first player's bonus. Risk isn't fair. In my view, this is one of the benefits of going first in a fog game, and although I would be fine if that benefit were removed, I'm not going to think it's important if the best argument you can muster is that some people aren't honoring your gentleman's agreement and you continue to play with them anyway.

[Donelladan]

Everyone agree. It would be nice to have it. But it isn't top priority suggestion, it won't change CC forever and for the best.
Still a good suggestiion and lot of people would be happy to have it. While no one would be annoyed by it.

Everything has been said ! No need to argue.

[Dukasaur]

Bottom line, it would be nice to have. Eliminate a whole pile of hassles, not just arguments about 12-hour rule, but

• People postponing accepting their invites, and then eventually missing them (a perennial hassle for tournament organisers)
• Having to scan your list to see if a waiting game has started so you can go take a snapshot
• a lot of needless communications (need a snap? yeah, got it?) which may not be a big deal but is still needless overhead.

[betiko]

I am so sorry, I hit edit instead of quote here and didn't notice until now. Many apologies betiko. This is the first time I've ever done something like this and I am very very sorry. -James

[Metsfanmax]

so basically, what you're saying is that there is no downside, only that you don't want people that play that way to get away with what they ask for. seems like a legit argument, carry on.

I am simply saying that there are also people who like the advantage they get from being first into a fog game, and you have to weigh the costs to them against the benefits to yourself before declaring that this is an obvious win. My stance is that it comes out roughly neutral, so I'm neither for nor against this change from that perspective. However, I am definitely for it from the perspective of consistency, if we went to all this trouble to put in the screenshot software and therefore make fog easier, we might as well make it fully functional.

by the way; built in screenshots exist. automatic screenshots exist after you finish your turn. having the option to get an automated screeshot when the game starts sounds like it would take 1 line of coding. This is something that has been asked several time by several members.

Given that it has been suggested numerous times and I am pretty sure that the owner is aware of it, it is possible that it is more technically complicated than you suspect. Though frankly I cannot imagine what the issue would be here.

[owenshooter]

Snapshots to avoid 12 Hour Fog Waiting Time Rule

There is no rule. for the last time... THERE! IS! NO! RULE!-Jésus noir

[betiko]

the thing is, that there is no legitimate reason to have players getting the advantage of hiding information that opponents should have if they are logged in the window between the game starting and the first turn taken.
Not to mention that people can wait for the last minute to join a fog game to avoid this unfair advatange or take ths unfair advantage as duka mentioned. It makes tournament organisers life harder.
So yes, this is only for the best. the only people who would complain are the ones willing to take an unfair advantage; but it would be dumb. if you are in a 4 players game, you have 25% chances to start and to take this advantage... 75% chances to have this advantage taken from you. So it's in their advantage too mathematically. only in 1v1 or team A vs team B they could expect a 50% chance, but given that you weight in the multi singles game, this is mathematically benefitting everyone. So no, it is not neutral.

[betiko]

Snapshots to avoid 12 Hour Fog Waiting Time Rule

There is no rule. for the last time... THERE! IS! NO! RULE!-Jésus noir

in clan games IT IS A RULE. If you don't comply, you can get a sanction.

[owenshooter]

Snapshots to avoid 12 Hour Fog Waiting Time Rule

There is no rule. for the last time... THERE! IS! NO! RULE!-Jésus noir

in clan games IT IS A RULE. If you don't comply, you can get a sanction.

who cares? that doesn't make it a site rule. he isn't talking about KLAN games, he is talking about general games played by the public. unless the site makes it an actual enforced rule, there is no rule. there is only a SUGGESTION. who cares about KLAN WAR rules? that isn't what this thread is about... however, if it is easy, i think the site should pop a shot at the start. would that be too much data or whatever? curious as to why this could not be practically done...-Jésus noir

[betiko]

Snapshots to avoid 12 Hour Fog Waiting Time Rule

There is no rule. for the last time... THERE! IS! NO! RULE!-Jésus noir

in clan games IT IS A RULE. If you don't comply, you can get a sanction.

who cares? that doesn't make it a site rule. he isn't talking about KLAN games, he is talking about general games played by the public. unless the site makes it an actual enforced rule, there is no rule. there is only a SUGGESTION. who cares about KLAN WAR rules? that isn't what this thread is about... however, if it is easy, i think the site should pop a shot at the start. would that be too much data or whatever? curious as to why this could not be practically done...-Jésus noir

if he is talking about "the 12h fog rule", then he is talking about clan games, given that as you mentioned, it is not a rule in normal fog games.

[owenshooter]

i just want to know why this isn't possible. every single time it is proposed, it sounds wonderful. but are we going to do it for ALL games? only certain types of games? all except speed/freestyle games? i just think it matters more than just in fog...-Jésus noir

[betiko]

i just want to know why this isn't possible. every single time it is proposed, it sounds wonderful. but are we going to do it for ALL games? only certain types of games? all except speed/freestyle games? i just think it matters more than just in fog...-Jésus noir

i'm fine with both... a pre game snapshot as an option, or mandatory for any fog game. But at least to have it as an option as all clan players would need that... and tournament organisers too.
Some people might not want it, so if it remains an option I don't see the problem.