Balance Not Included Mafia 3/12 End Game: Balance. Town Wins

[pancakemix]

Vote Jonty for being scum?

Just kidding... Nice to have you back. Looks like a crazy night.

Luckily, I investigated someone who didn't die, and I should get those results back soon as proof of my role.

Why the hell would you receive your investigation results today instead of during the night? Please explain how you KNOW you were bus driven?

Mod sent after scene was posted, just a little bit of a difference

I sent my action in on PCM, so either he was targeted by Streaker or someone bus drove my actions onto Streaker. Either way, my results were that I investigated the Town Instigator.

PCM, did you get any notification of this via PM?

I don't see why I would. I think you misunderstand what Streaker's action was.

You have now admitted you were at the scene of the crime twice (once when you were redirected there!). Not lynching you now would be kind of silly.

Vote Jamesker

Given that James is one of the remaining killers, I think the other has to be somewhere between spiesr and IB. Obviously, it can't be jonty. It's too unlikely for it to be DJ at this point based on jonty's N1 action. So it's gotta be one or the other of those two. Bad news is that given there were two kills, there's also likely to be a cult member hanging around. That kinda blows.

[Iron Butterfly]

vote james

PCM you are far from being in the clear in my book. Cult does not turn into a third party killer if leader dies. While it was hard to decide on day one what happened to hotshot, was he killed or did he die killing mafia, with this night kill it proves we have two killing factions.

If you are Town I can see your reasoning, however you have done nothing to convince us you are Town.

I would have preferred to have lynched James yesterday. How can you comment on a player being alive you investigated and not have investigation results?

[Iron Butterfly]

"I would have preferred to have lynched James yesterday. How can you comment on a player being alive you investigated and not have investigation results?"

So there is no confusion this was directed at James

[spiesr]

Given that James is one of the remaining killers, I think the other has to be somewhere between spiesr and IB. Obviously, it can't be jonty. It's too unlikely for it to be DJ at this point based on jonty's N1 action. So it's gotta be one or the other of those two. Bad news is that given there were two kills, there's also likely to be a cult member hanging around. That kinda blows.

I will take credit (blame) for Stor's death.
Dr. Clear, Town CPR Doc. Targeted Stor last Night, and nobody Night 1. Thought he was scum and didn't want to spend today going through the whole thing again. Looks like I was wrong (Kind of surprised he didn't use his power on either himself or Streaker.)

[JamesKer1]

I don't see why I would. I think you misunderstand what Streaker's action was.

You have now admitted you were at the scene of the crime twice (once when you were redirected there!). Not lynching you now would be kind of silly.

Vote Jamesker

Given that James is one of the remaining killers, I think the other has to be somewhere between spiesr and IB. Obviously, it can't be jonty. It's too unlikely for it to be DJ at this point based on jonty's N1 action. So it's gotta be one or the other of those two. Bad news is that given there were two kills, there's also likely to be a cult member hanging around. That kinda blows.

I was just double checking, always nice to have someone else who can verify my case. Guess not.

As for crime scene guilt, yes, I know, scummy. Whatever you want to call it is fine with me, as long as no votes are being cast over it. But that's not the case anymore, so I have to go on a tirade to clean myself.

I'm willing to openly state that I was there. If I wanted to be safe, I could lie and say that my action was directed onto Mets, but lying wouldn't be good for anyone. Instead, I will openly admit I ended up there, but I'm not the killer.

Vote Pancakemix

Guess I shouldn't have said I went after you, do you have something to hide? PLEASE don't tell me you are trying to lynch off investigative roles so that no one gets too close to you.

vote james

PCM you are far from being in the clear in my book. Cult does not turn into a third party killer if leader dies. While it was hard to decide on day one what happened to hotshot, was he killed or did he die killing mafia, with this night kill it proves we have two killing factions.

If you are Town I can see your reasoning, however you have done nothing to convince us you are Town.

I would have preferred to have lynched James yesterday. How can you comment on a player being alive you investigated and not have investigation results?

I put the cart before the horse, spoke too soon, whatever. I really wasn't expecting to end up with a dead man again. I knew I had gone after PCM, and was waiting for results after the scene, and I wanted to post before I went offline that I should be able to provide some results.


Fp'd by Spiesr. Not sure how to take it

[pancakemix]

vote james

PCM you are far from being in the clear in my book. Cult does not turn into a third party killer if leader dies. While it was hard to decide on day one what happened to hotshot, was he killed or did he die killing mafia, with this night kill it proves we have two killing factions.

If you are Town I can see your reasoning, however you have done nothing to convince us you are Town.

I would have preferred to have lynched James yesterday. How can you comment on a player being alive you investigated and not have investigation results?

That's fair, I suppose. I wasn't implying a cult member becoming a killer though, rather that as you said, there were two killers. Seems spiesr has an explanation for that but if james doesn't turn up scum, it's somewhere to look tomorrow.

I don't see why I would. I think you misunderstand what Streaker's action was.

You have now admitted you were at the scene of the crime twice (once when you were redirected there!). Not lynching you now would be kind of silly.

Vote Jamesker

Given that James is one of the remaining killers, I think the other has to be somewhere between spiesr and IB. Obviously, it can't be jonty. It's too unlikely for it to be DJ at this point based on jonty's N1 action. So it's gotta be one or the other of those two. Bad news is that given there were two kills, there's also likely to be a cult member hanging around. That kinda blows.

I was just double checking, always nice to have someone else who can verify my case. Guess not.

As for crime scene guilt, yes, I know, scummy. Whatever you want to call it is fine with me, as long as no votes are being cast over it. But that's not the case anymore, so I have to go on a tirade to clean myself.

I'm willing to openly state that I was there. If I wanted to be safe, I could lie and say that my action was directed onto Mets, but lying wouldn't be good for anyone. Instead, I will openly admit I ended up there, but I'm not the killer.

Vote Pancakemix

Guess I shouldn't have said I went after you, do you have something to hide? PLEASE don't tell me you are trying to lynch off investigative roles so that no one gets too close to you.

Is that seriously all you have to say? "There's a world in which you could be scum"? So far we don't have any proof that you are who you say you are despite you having had two opportunities to prove yourself. I'm kind of obliged to question you at this point. The argument that voting you is scummy solely on your claim therefore doesn't work. Maybe you ought to vote IB too?

[Djfireside]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

[Djfireside]

I will start this and expect the rest to follow since there is no real hiding at this point. I am Stewart Eagleston-Town Inventor and im pissed off at Jonty for targetting me cause I have been rendered useless. I will ask the same of PCM and IB and we can put all the pieces together and figure who is who.

4. Djfireside -- Stewart Eagleston-Town Inventor
5. Pancakelulz --
6. Jamesker -- Detective Arnold Palmer- Town (Role) Cop
7. Jonty125 -- Jonty125-Edgar Gries-Town Fumigator
8. Iron Butterfly --
12. Spiesr -- Dr. Clear, Town CPR Doc. Targeted Stor last Night, and nobody Night 1.

[pancakemix]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

I disagree with the notion that we are LYLO. There are far more scenarios in which we aren't (unless you have something to share with us). I think you need to give input on James before you cop out here.

[JamesKer1]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

I disagree with the notion that we are LYLO. There are far more scenarios in which we aren't (unless you have something to share with us). I think you need to give input on James before you cop out here.

Scummdar if anyone ever had one- we are at LYLO or VERY close. Trying to remove this possibility from the day is VERY scummy.

Also, the lack of a claim on your and IB's part is scummy too. I think we have our town. Pancake and IB need to go, they are our final scum. Unless someone seriously thinks that our mafia is stacked 2v10, in which case my bets are all over Pancakemix


DJ, more on inventor please?

[Djfireside]

I wouldnt go that far in saying they have to be the final scum but PCM it is LYLO. 6 people left, we lynch wrong person thats 5. Mafia kills 1 at night thats 4. There should be 2 mafia left... 2/4 Mafia win. Done.

Its clear im blocked as Jonty and I have noted so I am not causing any of the issues going on and we have other actions that are unaccounted for which should clear me and Jonty as town so half that remain are scum in my eyes. Just need to determine which.


James, Inventor gets a list of items they can hand out to other members and they can use them. I wanted to see them get used but I never got to use anything so I have nothing to report on it.

At this point, im not voting James and the pressure that PCM is putting on towards that is leading me a bit astray but I am waiting on information. I will not extrapolate further now because you dont believe this to be a possible game ending round which also seems odd.

[pancakemix]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

I disagree with the notion that we are LYLO. There are far more scenarios in which we aren't (unless you have something to share with us). I think you need to give input on James before you cop out here.

Scummdar if anyone ever had one- we are at LYLO or VERY close. Trying to remove this possibility from the day is VERY scummy.

Also, the lack of a claim on your and IB's part is scummy too. I think we have our town. Pancake and IB need to go, they are our final scum. Unless someone seriously thinks that our mafia is stacked 2v10, in which case my bets are all over Pancakemix


DJ, more on inventor please?

Beg pardon? I was JUST asked to claim in a mass claim (which I do not think will help). How am I scummy for not having my information out prior to being asked? IB hasn't even been in here. You are terrible at this and exceedingly desperate.

At this point, im not voting James and the pressure that PCM is putting on towards that is leading me a bit astray but I am waiting on information. I will not extrapolate further now because you dont believe this to be a possible game ending round which also seems odd.

Information on what? There's zero value in refusing to extrapolate further. That's the point of resorting to a massclaim isn't it? having everything on the table? If you want to play that game, you can't go halfway.

I don't discount the possibility of it being a lylo round, but I find it likely that it isn't. My opinion on that is changing, though: your diversion tactics are in full swing. It harkens back to yesterday, when you conveniently disappeared for a good chunk of the day (I'll concede your RL incidents, but it's not 100% an excuse). You were content to let me do all the pushing on Storr yesterday, and at the end I noted that it was odd. I'm incined to follow that line of thinking at this point and question your actions here again.

[spiesr]

I wouldnt go that far in saying they have to be the final scum but PCM it is LYLO. 6 people left, we lynch wrong person thats 5. Mafia kills 1 at night thats 4. There should be 2 mafia left... 2/4 Mafia win. Done.

I think that scenario isn't tecnically LYLO (Lynch or Lose), but rather Mislynch and Lose (MYLO? MLYLO?). There difference being that it allows for a no lynch today. Although often I have seen people lump in it with LYLO.

[Iron Butterfly]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

I disagree with the notion that we are LYLO. There are far more scenarios in which we aren't (unless you have something to share with us). I think you need to give input on James before you cop out here.

Scummdar if anyone ever had one- we are at LYLO or VERY close. Trying to remove this possibility from the day is VERY scummy.

Also, the lack of a claim on your and IB's part is scummy too. I think we have our town. Pancake and IB need to go, they are our final scum. Unless someone seriously thinks that our mafia is stacked 2v10, in which case my bets are all over Pancakemix


DJ, more on inventor please?

Seriously? We have our Town? I am more concerned with finding our killing factions. Spiesr has claimed one death and I am pretty certain the other is you. At this point the Tinkerer is irrelevant as he is blocked and cant use his power unless his bullet proof vest is used.

We know for a fact jonty is Town
We know DJ is blocked
We know Spiesr can kill

That leaves another killing role between PCM Myself and James
There may be one perhaps two mafia left.

DJ can not be removed from the mafia pool IF there are two left however he can't nightkill.

What we need from today is to lynch the other killer and that would be between the three of us. Claiming proves nothing this game as roles are random.

[JamesKer1]

Sadly I think that Jonty was on the right track when they made their first post this day and I think a Mass claim is needed. We are at a bad lynch and we lose type. Gathering my lists and requests now

I disagree with the notion that we are LYLO. There are far more scenarios in which we aren't (unless you have something to share with us). I think you need to give input on James before you cop out here.

Scummdar if anyone ever had one- we are at LYLO or VERY close. Trying to remove this possibility from the day is VERY scummy.

Also, the lack of a claim on your and IB's part is scummy too. I think we have our town. Pancake and IB need to go, they are our final scum. Unless someone seriously thinks that our mafia is stacked 2v10, in which case my bets are all over Pancakemix


DJ, more on inventor please?

Beg pardon? I was JUST asked to claim in a mass claim (which I do not think will help). How am I scummy for not having my information out prior to being asked? IB hasn't even been in here. You are terrible at this and exceedingly desperate.

Yes, you had a direct request for you to claim- as did IB- and in both of your next posts, you failed to provide the info. This further proves my point. If you have nothing to hide, then why hide it? If we had all roles out on the table, then we would be able to pick through and look for fake claims easier. But as it stands, we are assuming we have two mafia (at least myself and DJ seem to be assuming that), and we conveniently have two people who have refused to claim.

Seriously? We have our Town? I am more concerned with finding our killing factions. Spiesr has claimed one death and I am pretty certain the other is you. At this point the Tinkerer is irrelevant as he is blocked and cant use his power unless his bullet proof vest is used.

We know for a fact jonty is Town
We know DJ is blocked
We know Spiesr can kill

That leaves another killing role between PCM Myself and James
There may be one perhaps two mafia left.

DJ can not be removed from the mafia pool IF there are two left however he can't nightkill.

What we need from today is to lynch the other killer and that would be between the three of us. Claiming proves nothing this game as roles are random.

Scum protecting scum? Thanks for jumping to the conclusion it's me, especially when I have provided role info and PCM has not, even to this point after being asked by mysef and DJ

[pancakemix]

Yes, you had a direct request for you to claim- as did IB- and in both of your next posts, you failed to provide the info. This further proves my point. If you have nothing to hide, then why hide it? If we had all roles out on the table, then we would be able to pick through and look for fake claims easier. But as it stands, we are assuming we have two mafia (at least myself and DJ seem to be assuming that), and we conveniently have two people who have refused to claim.

That's not true at all. As IB said, a fakeclaim is likely to be indistinguishable from a real one. And with no evidence to back it up, your claim is uninformative at best and a lie at worst.

Come to think of it, I'm actually struggling to see why Streaker would redirect your action onto him. His role was out, so there was no need to test you as far as that was concerned. Methinks you might be telling tales. The more I consider your hyperagressive play at this recent juncture and your feral response to being a lynch candidate, the more I think you know for a fact we're at LYLO and you want things to roll your way.

Scum protecting scum? Thanks for jumping to the conclusion it's me, especially when I have provided role info and PCM has not, even to this point after being asked by mysef and DJ

Couple of things here:

1. Do you consider a claim to be a shield? Because it is not a shield. It is something to be analyzed, like any other piece of information we gather in this game. Your claim, on analysis, does not hold, because you have been unable to demonstrate it not once, but twice. Further I find the "conveniently dead" excuse to be troubling, because you say SW didn't even bother with sending you a result the first time (hard to believe) and the second time you let us know that your target had lived the second night, only to reveal that you had conveniently been redirected after the fact and the only person who could refute that, again, being dead. That all sounds concocted to be the perfect out. Your claim reeks. You have no business asking for mine.

2. What are you suggesting by the "scum protecting scum" bit? The only person the highlighted text can refer to is spiesr, but if that's the case and you think IB is protecting spiesr, you must then assume I'm town because your scenario only allows for two scum. If you're going to throw out wild accusations, at least make sure they make sense. As far as IB coming to that conclusion, it's hardly a stretch. He's not going to include himself in that count and I'm sure he's got plenty of reason to find you suspect (the contents of this post are a good starting point).

[spiesr]

1. Do you consider a claim to be a shield? Because it is not a shield. It is something to be analyzed, like any other piece of information we gather in this game.

So drop your so we can analyze. Or are you suggestion that we should just lynch Jamesker now and not look at anything else today?

2. What are you suggesting by the "scum protecting scum" bit? The only person the highlighted text can refer to is spiesr, but if that's the case and you think IB is protecting spiesr, you must then assume I'm town because your scenario only allows for two scum. If you're going to throw out wild accusations, at least make sure they make sense. As far as IB coming to that conclusion, it's hardly a stretch. He's not going to include himself in that count and I'm sure he's got plenty of reason to find you suspect (the contents of this post are a good starting point).

I thing he is referring to Iron Butterfly protecting you. (By saying that Jame is scum.) This fits with James' prior point where he suggests that you and IB are the remaining scum candidates.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

JamesKerr (2)-Pancakemix, Iron Butterfly
Pancakemix (1)-JamesKerr

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

[jonty125]

Like I said before James, I find it incredibly suspicious you still don't have a result and that makes me doubt your claim.
Also, I find PCM suspicious for doubting that we're @ LYLO/MYLO, that would suggest there were only 2 scum in a mad 12 player game, I can't see that working.

I'm not going to vote yet, I would still rather see a claim from PCM & IB.

[JamesKer1]

1. Do you consider a claim to be a shield? Because it is not a shield. It is something to be analyzed, like any other piece of information we gather in this game.

So drop your so we can analyze. Or are you suggestion that we should just lynch Jamesker now and not look at anything else today?

2. What are you suggesting by the "scum protecting scum" bit? The only person the highlighted text can refer to is spiesr, but if that's the case and you think IB is protecting spiesr, you must then assume I'm town because your scenario only allows for two scum. If you're going to throw out wild accusations, at least make sure they make sense. As far as IB coming to that conclusion, it's hardly a stretch. He's not going to include himself in that count and I'm sure he's got plenty of reason to find you suspect (the contents of this post are a good starting point).

I thing he is referring to Iron Butterfly protecting you. (By saying that Jame is scum.) This fits with James' prior point where he suggests that you and IB are the remaining scum candidates.

This is what I meant. Spies just said it much better than I ever could.

As for my claim (mainly directed towards Jonty at this point)- no one is questioning DJ because of his lack of proof for claim. He's been blocked, but that doesn't mean it's not a fake claim (although I am very inclined to believe it). Why am I being questioned for mine, where I was unlucky night 1 and manipulated night 2?

[spiesr]

As for my claim (mainly directed towards Jonty at this point)- no one is questioning DJ because of his lack of proof for claim. He's been blocked, but that doesn't mean it's not a fake claim (although I am very inclined to believe it). Why am I being questioned for mine, where I was unlucky night 1 and manipulated night 2?

A confirmed town backs up that he was blocked continuously since Night 1. Accordingly we know that he is not lying about his inability to produce results. More importantly it means that he is not the sole remaining scum. So, we can't really make much of a determination of his claim right now, but we don't need to yet since he won't be going anywhere. If you were locked down and the scum were still killing your claim would be a lot less important too.

[pancakemix]

Or are you suggestion that we should just lynch Jamesker now and not look at anything else today?

My point here is that james' argument is faulty. He is suggesting that because he has a claim out, he is above being lynched. I hold this is not true and given his circumstances his claim must be met with, in fact, heightened scrutiny. Do you agree?

Matter of fact, you haven't really chimed in on James at all today (noticeably dancing around it while addressing the issue of DJ's claim, I might add). Care to give your thoughts on him being redirected?

And thirdly, how much value do you feel there is in a mass claim at this point? Do you think we'll be able to adequately discern between the real claims and the fake ones? (I suppose it's a bit of a moot point, seeing as I'm seemingly outvoted on the issue. I'll be addressing that shortly)

Also, I find PCM suspicious for doubting that we're @ LYLO/MYLO, that would suggest there were only 2 scum in a mad 12 player game, I can't see that working.

FWIW, James changed my mind on this, though I'm sure not in the way he had hoped to convey it.

This is what I meant. Spies just said it much better than I ever could.

And I wish he hadn't said anything in response and made you do it, because this is another huge copout on your part. Please defend yourself, don't let others do it for you. My point, however, still stands: you're being hyperaggressive and thereby not making sense, or at last trying to be clever but you're far more assured of yourself than you really ought to be.

As for my claim (mainly directed towards Jonty at this point)- no one is questioning DJ because of his lack of proof for claim. He's been blocked, but that doesn't mean it's not a fake claim (although I am very inclined to believe it). Why am I being questioned for mine, where I was unlucky night 1 and manipulated night 2?

I have made it painfully clear why your clam is at issue, and there's far more to it than just bad luck. I have other reasons to be suspicious of DJ but your claim is a sore thumb where if DJ is scum, he's incapacitated anyway and not a danger.

Now, about that claim. To reiterate, I think it's not a valuable play (actually worse than that; it's going to hurt us) but I don't have the luxury of being able to object. So, here it is: Timothy Nathan Terrel-Town Bomb.

You may understand now why I've been a bit leery to reveal this, and also why I've kinda been playing the mad dog all game. My ability is kind of rendered useless, but every cloud has a silver lining: one must assume mafia aren't going to come my way at night now. Take that into account for endgame as you will.

[Djfireside]

What we need from today is to lynch the other killer and that would be between the three of us. Claiming proves nothing this game as roles are random.

I agree with finding the killer and I had a reason for the claim as while it can be random, its what killed Virus. In the end, Virus claim is what led me to think he was scummy.

As for holding off I wanted to see what both you and IB did after the claim request which is why I delayed. I do note that I was absent and couldnt help that and I know it left a void I could have helped with.

So at this point in my mind there are the following that I have to review.

James -- Submarined most of the first two days and only surfaced at times of stress. Has never gotten a valid response from either of the nights. Seems to be the target of IB and PCM with a quick push on him although he was the target yesterday.
IB -- Has been somewhat quiet but given proper information but in my point remained in the shadows
PCM -- Timothy Nathan Terrel-Town Bomb. Had the various fights with Virus, Streaker and Storr. Had scummy thoughts on him and appears to play well with others still alive. Does make valid points.
Spies -- claimed that he used his power on storr which explains the death from the night. Understandable how they would not use it during N1 based on the type of role.

Currently Im trying to figure out votes and the scenes to make sure that what appears to have happened is covered in the toles that are stated.

Currently James is looking bad to me based on their results but in looking at other things, I cant figure a scummate which is what is bothering me.

[pancakemix]

I'm disconcerted by how quiet it's gotten...

[strike wolf]

So vote count hasn't changed. Deadline remains this upcoming Wednesday.