[GO] Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games

[TeeGee]

Now that unrated games will be played via the Guide program, and de facto unrated games are played on the beta site, is there any chance that this courtesy will be extended to the general population?

Anybody is welcome to come and help out on the beta site. There is the added bonus that you get to play games, but that isnt the purpose of being there, we are looking for faults, flaws.. testing scenarios.. some games start and you are instructed to play a certain way to test a particular feature.
But they are always looking for active volunteers to help if you are interested.

[degaston]

Now that unrated games will be played via the Guide program, and de facto unrated games are played on the beta site, is there any chance that this courtesy will be extended to the general population?

Anybody is welcome to come and help out on the beta site. There is the added bonus that you get to play games, but that isnt the purpose of being there, we are looking for faults, flaws.. testing scenarios.. some games start and you are instructed to play a certain way to test a particular feature.
But they are always looking for active volunteers to help if you are interested.

I'm not really asking for myself. I'm already a beta tester - mainly to test my own map, but now that I'm there, I'm interested in testing other maps in development. And I volunteered for the Guide program, but only after I saw that the games would be for 0 points. Not because I don't think I could win against people who have just signed up, but because wanting to keep my points would conflict with the goal of helping them learn the game.

From what I've seen, low ranked players have a hard time finding opponents, because many high ranked players don't want to play against them. (See the "Cookbombing" thread) And the high ranked players that do want to play them are accused of farming. Also, I suspect that many people are hesitant to try maps or settings that they are unfamiliar with because they don't want to lose a lot of points trying to learn. None of these situations affect me that much, but I think that unrated games would help solve these problems for other people and lead to more activity on the site.

[Metsfanmax]

Now that unrated games will be played via the Guide program, and de facto unrated games are played on the beta site, is there any chance that this courtesy will be extended to the general population?

It's my goal to have these available in some form before I quit this job.

[2dimes]

What about a single point games or 5 points regardless of rank option?

Then I can play higher ranking people I like without them risking their hard earned points if I accidently win.

[dakky21]

Anything new on this subject? Today a "question mark" player showed in live chat and wanted to play, I pointed him to bot games as if I played with him and somehow lost, he'd get like 60 points and if I won I'd get like 6 points. Either give us option to play new players for no points or for a fixed number of points (like 6-7) and it should only work with new players.

We're losing new players without this.

[Sirius Kase]

Games with no Points, for mentoring and other situations where don't want game to affect score and/or rank

• Would be like Guide games, but the mentee isn't necessarily a recruit

Specifics/Details:
[list]
[

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
[list]


Pardon me while I drop out of the template and try to make some sense (okay, I deleted the mess, and started over, the template was confusing me, but I sorta get what you need to know).

The purpose of this suggestion is to provide a way for one person to work with another person in a game situation to train them in strategy or just to have practice in game type situations without it affecting the score. Should be easy to do since the programming would be very similar to that used for the guide games.

[owenshooter]

this suggestion already exists... and i imagine this is about your wanting to learn a new type of game or map without risking points... be like the rest of us, suck it up, and just lose the points... talk to the medal chasers around here, it is hard to learn new settings/complicated maps, without losing points... it is actually a side of CC that i like... this has already been suggested and rejected, but good luck with this...-Jésus noir

[degaston]

You can play bot games for no points.
You can play guide games for no points.
If you become a beta tester you can try out any map for no points if you can get a game going.
.
.
.
But for some strange reason, they think it will kill the site if you can play a normal game against other established members for no points.

[Sirius Kase]

Thanks, but if you are mentoring someone, playing bot games and guide games doesn't work at all. I don't know about the beta testing idea, will check it out.

I'm talking about 2 unequally skilled people playing for training purposes.

[owenshooter]

Thanks, but if you are mentoring someone, playing bot games and guide games doesn't work at all. I don't know about the beta testing idea, will check it out.

I'm talking about 2 unequally skilled people playing for training purposes.

play 1v1, lose some points. we all go through it. once you get over your fascination with point/ranks, you'll enjoy the site more and be a better overall person...-Jésus noir

[Invdr_zim]

One benefit I see to risk free games is that it is a good way for people who are regular partners in team games to practice and play against each other, allowing them to improve their strategy and learn new boards together. This is especially effective if one partner is stronger than the other on a given board and/or there is a significant difference in rank. Currently playing practice games against a teammate has a negative impact on their respective scores, something that is counterproductive when the point of team games and having a regular partner is to help each other play better and boost each other's rank.

Just my two cents.

[owenshooter]

One benefit I see to risk free games is that it is a good way for people who are regular partners in team games to practice and play against each other, allowing them to improve their strategy and learn new boards together. This is especially effective if one partner is stronger than the other on a given board and/or there is a significant difference in rank. Currently playing practice games against a teammate has a negative impact on their respective scores, something that is counterproductive when the point of team games and having a regular partner is to help each other play better and boost each other's rank.

Just my two cents.

they are never going to let experienced players play an unlimited amount of games against each other for no loss of points... never... defeats the purpose of the site, the purpose of the game, the purpose of life... trust me, i am the black jesus... this suggestion has been made multiple times and has been soundly denounced as an overall bad idea... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

[degaston]

they are never going to let experienced players play an unlimited amount of games against each other for no loss of points... never...

It's already technically possible. (The best kind of possible.) Beta testers can play an unlimited amount of games on the beta site for no loss of points on the main site.

defeats the purpose of the site,

What is the purpose of the site, and how would this defeat it?

the purpose of the game

What is the purpose of the game, and how would this defeat it?

the purpose of life...

Really? (okay, I know this was hyperbole)

trust me, i am the black jesus...

this suggestion has been made multiple times and has been soundly denounced as an overall bad idea

Because...why???

Before you started playing online, had you ever played Risk for points? Do you think that most people come here because they're looking for rated games?

Some people may only want to play rated games, some might prefer only unrated, and others may want to experiment and learn with unrated games before they try a rated game. By preventing unrated games, this site is certainly driving away some percentage of potential new players, and causing dissatisfaction in many more. I have yet to see a logical reason for not allowing them.

Please, tell me what is the terrible thing that would happen if they allowed unrated games?

[owenshooter]

search is your friend... the first thread i have listed is 33 pages long and pretty much the bible on this subject... the rest are just rehashes of what has been discussed since 2006-Jésus noir

Subject: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Subject: Make games with ? players point-neutral
Subject: Mentor games, special no-point option.
Subject: Eliminate all points, scores, ranks, winning, losing & fun
Subject: No points for games on Beta maps
Subject: Suggestion: No points Tourney Games

[betiko]

Thanks, but if you are mentoring someone, playing bot games and guide games doesn't work at all. I don't know about the beta testing idea, will check it out.

I'm talking about 2 unequally skilled people playing for training purposes.

play 1v1, lose some points. we all go through it. once you get over your fascination with point/ranks, you'll enjoy the site more and be a better overall person...-Jésus noir

so if rank is unimportant to you, how is the possibility of playing unranked games something that bothers you?

[degaston]

search is your friend... the first thread i have listed is 33 pages long and pretty much the bible on this subject... the rest are just rehashes of what has been discussed since 2006-Jésus noir

Subject: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Subject: Make games with ? players point-neutral
Subject: Mentor games, special no-point option.
Subject: Eliminate all points, scores, ranks, winning, losing & fun
Subject: No points for games on Beta maps
Subject: Suggestion: No points Tourney Games

Yes, I'm aware of those threads and participated in some of them. They don't answer the questions I asked. I'm not going to go over every one, but from looking around, I see lots of support for the idea and no logical reasons not to do it. The official position seems to be based on the unsubstantiated fear that somehow, allowing no points games will ruin the entire points system... because... everyone will become a farmer, and only play for points on the maps they feel they're good at?

Just imagine a world where people played a game because they enjoyed it, and not because they were trying to climb to the top of some irrelevant leaderboard.


Do you have your own opinion about unrated games?
If so, do you have any logical justification for it?

[Donelladan]

I supported risk free game in the past.
Right now I am not sure why I did. I think it doesn't matter.
What for do we need risk free game ?

I do pratice game with friends. At the end some of us lose points some of us win some. I think we don't care that much. I don't know why the OP care, your rank quite low anyway ( doesn't want to be offensive just a fact ).

I still support risk free games for speeds though, because I think it would increase activity on the speed game pages, and that would be great.


NB : I find it totally unfair that beta tester are allow to have unlimited amount of games worth no points !!!

[betiko]

I supported risk free game in the past.
Right now I am not sure why I did. I think it doesn't matter.
What for do we need risk free game ?

I do pratice game with friends. At the end some of us lose points some of us win some. I think we don't care that much. I don't know why the OP care, your rank quite low anyway ( doesn't want to be offensive just a fact ).

I still support risk free games for speeds though, because I think it would increase activity on the speed game pages, and that would be great.


NB : I find it totally unfair that beta tester are allow to have unlimited amount of games worth no points !!!

Same thing here; on one hand you don t care about points, but on the other you find it unfair that beta tester can play unranked games. I just don t get the logic.

[degaston]

I supported risk free game in the past.
Right now I am not sure why I did. I think it doesn't matter.
What for do we need risk free game ?

I do pratice game with friends. At the end some of us lose points some of us win some. I think we don't care that much. I don't know why the OP care, your rank quite low anyway ( doesn't want to be offensive just a fact ).

I still support risk free games for speeds though, because I think it would increase activity on the speed game pages, and that would be great.

I don't personally care either, but I think there are a lot of people here who do. Whether you're rank is high or low, I understand that people don't want to lose points when they're trying to learn a new map or setting, or if they're teaching someone.

If this would increase activity for speed games, why wouldn't it do the same for regular games? When I first joined and wanted to play a doubles game with a friend, we would have to coordinate our signup so that someone else didn't jump in and take the second slot (It had happened to us). Now there's no concern about that, and it can take weeks or months for a game to fill.

I'm not saying that unrated games would solve everything, but I don't see any justification for the claim that it would cause some harm.

NB : I find it totally unfair that beta tester are allow to have unlimited amount of games worth no points !!!

It doesn't work very well in practice. There are so few people there that it's almost impossible to get a game going unless you have friends there. I joined the beta testers mostly to test a map I was developing, but I can't get anyone to join and finish a game. My friend requested to become a beta tester, but they never responded to him.

[owenshooter]

Do you have your own opinion about unrated games?
If so, do you have any logical justification for it?

yeah... i totally agree with the official stance of TEAM CC.. don't know how much clearer i can be on the subject at hand (yet again)...

Subject: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

[size=150]Mod Edit: The option to create games for no points has been suggested dozens of times under numerous monikers including: Unrated games, Unranked games, No Points games, Sparring games, Friendly games and Recreational games. Each time it has been REJECTED. The simple reason for this is that it undermines the scoring system. If people were allowed to play all the games that they weren't very good at "for fun" or "for practice" and only play games that they could likely win points on "for realsies" or "for keeps" then all of a sudden everybody would be a farmer of sorts. Perhaps you think this would be a good thing. However, as it stands now, there appears to be almost zero chance that Conquer Club will engage in this experiment anytime in the foreseeable future.

i think people would abuse it... people would become specialist on one or a few maps and a few settings and harvest points in that manner, the same way we had it done with freestyle in the past (when a loophole was exploited and players that were not aware of it, literally had no chance)... if you don't want to play against other people for points, then find a site where you can do that or just buy a board game each and play over skype... *cough*... anyway, i agree with the above statement, always have and nothing has been said to dissuade me from that stance... the potential for abuse is real and too plausible to implement this... you know, kind of like the "surrender button" that everyone that comes across the site, seems to think we need... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

[betiko]

Do you have your own opinion about unrated games?
If so, do you have any logical justification for it?

yeah... i totally agree with the official stance of TEAM CC.. don't know how much clearer i can be on the subject at hand (yet again)...

Subject: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

[size=150]Mod Edit: The option to create games for no points has been suggested dozens of times under numerous monikers including: Unrated games, Unranked games, No Points games, Sparring games, Friendly games and Recreational games. Each time it has been REJECTED. The simple reason for this is that it undermines the scoring system. If people were allowed to play all the games that they weren't very good at "for fun" or "for practice" and only play games that they could likely win points on "for realsies" or "for keeps" then all of a sudden everybody would be a farmer of sorts. Perhaps you think this would be a good thing. However, as it stands now, there appears to be almost zero chance that Conquer Club will engage in this experiment anytime in the foreseeable future.

i think people would abuse it... people would become specialist on one or a few maps and a few settings and harvest points in that manner, the same way we had it done with freestyle in the past (when a loophole was exploited and players that were not aware of it, literally had no chance)... if you don't want to play against other people for points, then find a site where you can do that or just buy a board game each and play over skype... *cough*... anyway, i agree with the above statement, always have and nothing has been said to dissuade me from that stance... the potential for abuse is real and too plausible to implement this... you know, kind of like the "surrender button" that everyone that comes across the site, seems to think we need... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

I think it s a problem for speed games for example. Playing 1v1 on normal maps is totally luck based if you face a captainish player. No way i can find players in my score range playing basic games for fun in speed games. Basically, what the site offers is "f*ck you, rank down then".
Facing let s say a captain on classic 1v1 i would need to win at least 3/4 games each time to break even, and i m not even sure i d break even with that. There is no way skill can justify such ratio. It s so plain dumb that i ve stopped speed gaming.
Lots of people keep on doing the yoyo with just for fun games. Well i think it would be better to have people with more stable scores.
If someone wants to start farming playing over and over the same thing well i m fine with that, not sure he would find many opponents willing to play him for points though.

[degaston]

i think people would abuse it... people would become specialist on one or a few maps and a few settings and harvest points in that manner

Who are they going to harvest points from? If players are no longer forced to play every game for points, then the only people who will play a particular map & setting for points are those that feel comfortable with it - probably after having played with those settings in unrated games. The playing field will be leveled, and it will no longer be possible to farm points from the inexperienced. Additionally, players will be more willing to try new maps and unusual combinations of settings, because they know that no one can farm points from them in an unrated game.

the same way we had it done with freestyle in the past (when a loophole was exploited and players that were not aware of it, literally had no chance)...

But if people had been able to play unrated freestyle games, then it would have been impossible to exploit this loophole.

if you don't want to play against other people for points, then find a site where you can do that or just buy a board game each and play over skype... *cough*...

Perhaps this is why membership has been declining? And you want to tell them to go ahead and leave because the ability to farm points is more important to you than letting them play a game just for the fun of it?

anyway, i agree with the above statement, always have and nothing has been said to dissuade me from that stance...

Fine, I realize that you are not willing to consider the possibility that you could be wrong about this. Maybe someone else who reads this will be more open minded.

the potential for abuse is real and too plausible to implement this...

The abuse is happening right now. People don't like it, which is why they keep asking for unrated games. Unrated games would make it impossible to farm without someone's consent.

you know, kind of like the "surrender button" that everyone that comes across the site, seems to think we need... the black jesus has spoken...-Jésus noir

There could probably be ways to protect against the abuse of the surrender button... but one battle at a time.

[BigBallinStalin]

Dude, just let the people play 'pointless' games. I'd do it, you'd do it, we'd all do it.

I mean, really.

[degaston]