Balance Not Included Mafia 3/12 End Game: Balance. Town Wins

[virus90]

tbh we can always lynch virus for lying.
I'm just kinda curious why he thought me and tambo "fighting" is a thing. considering he has seen us "fight"

And i have seen the Storr - Mtam fights before, i usually tend to say: Guys keep it down, so Guys keep it down, please keep it friendly.

Please can you reference a game you are talking about? Cause. This has never happened. 1 all 3 of us being in the same game. 2. tamb and i both being in the same game on the main cc thread. (i dont think you have access to our clan mafia games)

i was wrong storr your right, im sorry.

i interpeted the post about "wasting a spot" page 3 as towards you because the next thing he said: the asshole is here, and you reacted my favourite asshole, i interpreted that as the 2 of you argueing. especially since i have seen some arguments before, i thought mtam was involved, but that wasnt with you, i now think. i saw some dots and was to fast in connecting them. im sorry.

rereading it i interpret as; mtam was first talking about samus, and then talking about himself being an asshole and then you saying my favourite asshole, as a praise to mtam. which would add up to previous games with arguments with mtam because he doesnt care about feelings.

[mtamburini]

tbh we can always lynch virus for lying.
I'm just kinda curious why he thought me and tambo "fighting" is a thing. considering he has seen us "fight"

And i have seen the Storr - Mtam fights before, i usually tend to say: Guys keep it down, so Guys keep it down, please keep it friendly.

Please can you reference a game you are talking about? Cause. This has never happened. 1 all 3 of us being in the same game. 2. tamb and i both being in the same game on the main cc thread. (i dont think you have access to our clan mafia games)

He doesnt. Tried to get Gnome to read one of the games and she couldnt without being a member of the clan.

[Metsfanmax]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

[Silver_Samus]

Still, Mets, there are other ways of joking then rolefishing. It's the perfect start for scum: either it works, or it backfires like now and you can say it was a joke.

[Metsfanmax]

Still, Mets, there are other ways of joking then rolefishing. It's the perfect start for scum: either it works, or it backfires like now and you can say it was a joke.

If you have anything that's not WIFOM, please let me know. Until then, I'll pass on this case.

[jonty125]

Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.


In other news, mtam said he used fake votes to trap people, I find using fake votes allows scum to vote scummily and backtrack, so I dislike them (fake votes) and find them that use them scummy.

[StorrZerg]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

why bother guessing when we know the answer.
If it was a "joke" when i called him out, he would have said so. You are giving him far to much credit on assumptions. (specifically on the virus should know this "is" a common way of confirming)

Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.


In other news, mtam said he used fake votes to trap people, I find using fake votes allows scum to vote scummily and backtrack, so I dislike them (fake votes) and find them that use them scummy.

well the way spiesr confirmed was fine. The issue isn't how he confirmed, but that virus felt the need to quote him and make a response stating "o snaps you are not vt" If virus had read the rules, its clear it is a joke. Yet he had not, so regardless of virus alignment he put down on the forum that he thought spiesr was NOT vt. Not as a joke.

as far as no merit. I think it does considering you don't know what you are talking about. You can't exactly say "storr your case is shit" when you keep bringing up irrelevant points about my case.

as far as your view on fake votes, i am in some agreement. i could care less about fake votes. rather treat them all as real votes even if they are not put down correctly. Honestly this moves to mod talk if mod wants to allow people to purposely f*ck with his voting system.

[mtamburini]

Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.


In other news, mtam said he used fake votes to trap people, I find using fake votes allows scum to vote scummily and backtrack, so I dislike them (fake votes) and find them that use them scummy.

You're #3 on my lynch list just FYI. You're contributions this far make me sleepy. A case without merit is better than sitting back and not doing anything but point fos for generic things you think are scummy.

If I die and he's still alive more than 1 day after my death I'll be very disappointed in all of you.

[Iron Butterfly]

Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.


In other news, mtam said he used fake votes to trap people, I find using fake votes allows scum to vote scummily and backtrack, so I dislike them (fake votes) and find them that use them scummy.

You're #3 on my lynch list just FYI. You're contributions this far make me sleepy. A case without merit is better than sitting back and not doing anything but point fos for generic things you think are scummy.

I am so glad we all know you are Town this early in the game. Coming in saying your Town while being a wise ass and posting meaningless inside jokes to bond with your buds does not make you Town. But hey to each their own. I also like the idea your feelings wont be hurt.

If I die and he's still alive more than 1 day after my death I'll be very disappointed in all of you.

[pancakemix]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

That's weak. What about virus' post suggests it could be a joke? Methinks you're looking for every reason NOT to look at this.

[Iron Butterfly]

not sure what happened with my last post but the last paragraph is where it begins.

[Iron Butterfly]

Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.


In other news, mtam said he used fake votes to trap people, I find using fake votes allows scum to vote scummily and backtrack, so I dislike them (fake votes) and find them that use them scummy.

You're #3 on my lynch list just FYI. You're contributions this far make me sleepy. A case without merit is better than sitting back and not doing anything but point fos for generic things you think are scummy.

If I die and he's still alive more than 1 day after my death I'll be very disappointed in all of you.

I am so glad we all know you are Town this early in the game. Coming in saying your Town while being a wise ass and posting meaningless inside jokes to bond with your buds does not make you Town. But hey to each their own. I also like the idea your feelings wont be hurt.

Sorry for the re post. I did not want any confusion between who said what.

[spiesr]

The power role outed himself. All virus did was make a joke about it. Let's move on from that. virus could be scum or he could be town, but we're never going to know from that one post, and virus is (intelligently) not going to get in the middle of it. So let's move on to more interesting things, like who the hell mtamburini is.

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!" Tell me: what does it serve to even say that? This shouldn't be about reading the rules. It ought to be about rolefishing.

Pancakemix is correct that I did not intentionally draw that statement from any specific role pm. Rather, when writing my confirmation post I simply (for whatever reason) decided to write out what every "Confirm" typically implies. Speculation on the odds of me seeing something in my pm that may have influenced that decision is of course fair game, but whatever.

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

His subsequent posts on the subject haven't given me the impression that him making that sort of joke was the case.

See, I disagree that virus outed spiesr, I think spiesr was just confirming in a different way.

Which means to me your case has no merit whatsoever - hence useless to talk about - hence you should be lynched for bringing a case with no merit.

Virus's intentions and the actual results of his actions need not match exactly. Basing a case on one's assumptions about his intentions is valid, albeit somewhat weaker than one backed up by results.

[mtamburini]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

That's weak. What about virus' post suggests it could be a joke? Methinks you're looking for every reason NOT to look at this.

I've been thinking about this as well but I don't think he would defend his mafia partner this hard so early seems very detrimental towards his win condition as scum.

[mtamburini]

lynch order thus far

#1 Virus - for lying about facts of me and storr
#2 Silver dude person - for posting for the sake of posting to not lurk in the shadows
#3 Jonty - for providing nothing of value and putting a fos on storr for reasons I do not believe to be indicative of scum.

[Metsfanmax]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

That's weak. What about virus' post suggests it could be a joke?

Well, the fact that he said it, for one. If he's scum, then rolefishing like this is incredibly stupid, and if he's town, then it's incredibly stupid to out a power role. There's no circumstance in which it makes sense, so it was either really stupid or just a joke. The fact that he said was drunk kind of hammers this point home.

Methinks you're looking for every reason NOT to look at this.

There's not been a reason given to look at it. As I said -- when you've got something that's not WIFOM, I'll look at it.

[StorrZerg]

so any time mets you want to continue a discussion or start something new that would be great.
the endless defensive of half the people in the game with "thats silly" or "that was obviously a joke" isn't really helping. and/or just shutting down any type of discussion.

[strike wolf]

Deadline is a bit over 3 days away. I will try to put up a vote count before I go to sleep but I am not at my laptop right now.

[strike wolf]

Vote Count

DJfireside (1)-Spiesr
Virus90 (2)-Storr, Pancake
MetsfanMax (2)-Virus, Silver Samus
Storrzerg (1)-Jamesker
Silver Samus (1)-Hotshot

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline in 3 days.

[pancakemix]

You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!"

Why is it that somehow only spiesr is capable of joking? My guess is that virus too was joking, because virus (like the rest of us) knows that this is a common way of confirming and so was joking rather than actually rolefishing.

That's weak. What about virus' post suggests it could be a joke?

Well, the fact that he said it, for one. If he's scum, then rolefishing like this is incredibly stupid, and if he's town, then it's incredibly stupid to out a power role. There's no circumstance in which it makes sense, so it was either really stupid or just a joke. The fact that he said was drunk kind of hammers this point home.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Was he making a joke or being stupid? Because if he was making a joke, it's perfectly plausible that it was only a half joke and that he might actually be looking for something. But if he was being stupid, then it's possible that he was just trying to employ bad tactics in his haste and made an error. Either way, it's a bad play on his part.

Methinks you're looking for every reason NOT to look at this.

There's not been a reason given to look at it. As I said -- when you've got something that's not WIFOM, I'll look at it.

Well first off, that's not true. I've given plenty of reasons and you've yet to refute any of them. Second, I fail to see how this is WIFOM. My case is that Virus was trying to out spiesr. If that's the wine in front of me, what's the wine in front of you? Is it "no you're wrong"? Because that's not what WIFOM is. It's making someone think the opposite of what you want them to think, and the circle of logic that follows. That's not what this is. This is a case. Either you're confused about definitions or you're trying to shut things down by saying "WIFOM LEAVE ME ALONE" which either way doesn't do anything for anyone.

Since I have something that's not WIFOM, please consider it. I'd like to have a discussion, because any discussion about in game actions at this point is going to mean progress. So please, let's discuss it unless you have something more compelling.

[Metsfanmax]

[quote="pancakemix"] Second, I fail to see how this is WIFOM. My case is that Virus was trying to out spiesr. If that's the wine in front of me, what's the wine in front of you?[quote]

It's WIFOM because an equally valid argument can be made that the post pushes virus towards town, because no mafia who is an experienced player would be so stupid as to try to out spiesr in like the first post of D1. (And then it continues, well, of course we would conclude that because virus is an experienced player, so maybe it's a trick, etc.) This is really simple, and it doesn't stop being WIFOM because you can't think hard enough to consider more than one perspective.

[Metsfanmax]

so any time mets you want to continue a discussion or start something new that would be great.

I might consider starting a case on any of the number of you who think that this case is worth pursuing, just not sure who to select. pcm has been particularly argumentative and while I think his arguments are terrible and he doesn't understand this situation, that doesn't make him scum. I do think you're being misdirecting enough to consider. Your feigned dislike for how we feel about your crappy case is putting on a good town show even though the intentions aren't very good because this is indeed a crappy case.

[Silver_Samus]

so any time mets you want to continue a discussion or start something new that would be great.

I might consider starting a case on any of the number of you who think that this case is worth pursuing, just not sure who to select. pcm has been particularly argumentative and while I think his arguments are terrible and he doesn't understand this situation, that doesn't make him scum. I do think you're being misdirecting enough to consider. Your feigned dislike for how we feel about your crappy case is putting on a good town show even though the intentions aren't very good because this is indeed a crappy case.

This is not a crappy case. Just because it was (very) early on D1 doesn't make up for the fact that he was drawing attention to a possible power role. Virus confirmed that, at the time of his post, he hadn't read the rules/OP yet.
When I first started playing mafia, one of the first things I was told is to NEVER EVER EVER try to fish after someone's role, double so if you believe it to be a power role. When you are town, ofcourse.
It doesn't matter if he is experienced or new, early or late on D1. It doesn't matter that it is a poor play on his part being town or mafia, the fact of the matter is that Virus made a mistake with his post. This is more then enough to warrant a case, and even a wagon, on Virus. Especially on D1.

Now you have already spent half the week arguing about this case being too weak, without actually helping to build another case. Furthermore, with your last post you are effectively taking the pace out D1.
I'm glad to read that you 'might consider' starting a new case. Excellent.

One of the great things about Storr's play is that he makes people react to certain situations, like you are reacting to his case on Virus. Even if that case doesn't hold up, it made you ultra defensive for little reason. This makes me feel even better to have my vote on you.

[StorrZerg]

im so deep in silver_samus pocket after that post holy crap

[jonty125]

I stand by my comments StorrZerg, vote StorrZerg because it seems my vote on page 2 doesn't count.