Welcome to Noobsville! GAME OVER! TOWN WINS!

[degaston]

I post on Tuesday, and Thursday I get prodded along with two other active posters? Meanwhile, I've made 19 posts (tied for 2nd in terms of activity), and H8 has made 4, nothing of substance, where were his prods?
Vote H8 AFK

[Iron Butterfly]

I post on Tuesday, and Thursday I get prodded along with two other active posters? Meanwhile, I've made 19 posts (tied for 2nd in terms of activity), and H8 has made 4, nothing of substance, where were his prods?
Vote H8 AFK

We have two claims on the table to vote for. We do not need a third claim today.

[degaston]

I post on Tuesday, and Thursday I get prodded along with two other active posters? Meanwhile, I've made 19 posts (tied for 2nd in terms of activity), and H8 has made 4, nothing of substance, where were his prods?
Vote H8 AFK

We have two claims on the table to vote for. We do not need a third claim today.

I don't see what's so special about a claim to be a vanilla townie. Isn't everyone claiming that as a default starting point anyway? H8 already said that he's no scum, so that seems close enough to a claim to me.

I'm still suspicious of Zivel, and you too for that matter, but if H8 is not scum, then he's not doing much to help find them. You said that it's all guesswork until we know more about what format we are playing, but unless you or Zivel are hiding a power role (which you told everyone not to do), then we won't learn anything more by lynching either one of you (unless we get really lucky and one of you happens to be a mafia roleblocker.)

The deadline is still "like, ages away", so I don't see what your hurry is to shut down the discussion (such as it is) and lynch one of you two, or end the day with no lynch.

[charm]

@Legionairre - don't you have anything to say? I don't think mute is a townie role!
@Zivel - you were so talkative and now you have gone silent too.

Where is 1/2 the players?

[Iron Butterfly]

I post on Tuesday, and Thursday I get prodded along with two other active posters? Meanwhile, I've made 19 posts (tied for 2nd in terms of activity), and H8 has made 4, nothing of substance, where were his prods?
Vote H8 AFK

We have two claims on the table to vote for. We do not need a third claim today.

I don't see what's so special about a claim to be a vanilla townie. Isn't everyone claiming that as a default starting point anyway? H8 already said that he's no scum, so that seems close enough to a claim to me.

I'm still suspicious of Zivel, and you too for that matter, but if H8 is not scum, then he's not doing much to help find them. You said that it's all guesswork until we know more about what format we are playing, but unless you or Zivel are hiding a power role (which you told everyone not to do), then we won't learn anything more by lynching either one of you (unless we get really lucky and one of you happens to be a mafia roleblocker.)

The deadline is still "like, ages away", so I don't see what your hurry is to shut down the discussion (such as it is) and lynch one of you two, or end the day with no lynch.

If you get a third person to claim and they are Town you only help mafia. Lets say three people claim VT and they are all telling the truth. Mafia will know for a fact they are telling the truth while Town is in uncertainty. Who do you think mafia will target night 1? They will focus outside the three claimed Town in hopes of hitting PRrs.

So do you want discussion for discussion sake or do you want another claim?

[MudPuppy]

I don't feel the need for another claim at this point. IB, are you suggesting we should go ahead and pick someone to lynch now and end the day early? If not, how do you propose we advance further constructive discussion without trying to force another claim? I'm feeling a bit stuck now.

My observation of Zivel trying to label himself town was by far the best read I feel I've come up with and I'm not terribly convinced in that argument. I'm suspicious of charm and I have been back and forth on deg. Right now I have a town read on him but I perceive him to be a good player and can definitely picture him as scum who is portraying himself very well as a townie.

But what to do with it all?? I'm not sure. At this point I want the day to end with Zivel lynched... but I'm not in a rush to do it. I just don't know what to chat about in the meantime.

[degaston]

If you get a third person to claim and they are Town you only help mafia. Lets say three people claim VT and they are all telling the truth. Mafia will know for a fact they are telling the truth while Town is in uncertainty. Who do you think mafia will target night 1? They will focus outside the three claimed Town in hopes of hitting PRrs.

This is exactly why I find it odd that you insist that players reveal their power roles in a claim before they've had a chance to use them. Or why the town would want to force people to claim at all. These things only seem to help the mafia.

So do you want discussion for discussion sake or do you want another claim?

I thought the whole point of this was discussion for discussion's sake. Isn't that supposed to help the townies with power roles figure out what to do at night? Why would you want to cut that short? I don't really care about forcing another claim, but if H8 is not going to talk, then he's not helping the town, and it's not going to be a huge loss if he's gone. But as I've said before, I'm not even sure that a lynch on the first day is necessary unless there's a strong read on one player.

Maybe your advice is standard thinking for this game, but some of it doesn't seem to make much sense if it's supposed to help the town. And I do find it suspicious that you want to shut down the discussion and end the day way ahead of whatever time limit there is.

[Zivel]

I am still here charm. I am a little busy and so have been a bit afk. I have to agree with dega here, I still am confused by the logic of claims and what is to say either me or IB are telling the truth and i=f someone would lie if they were a power role. But I see his point vote one of us off and you are pretty sure of getting a vanilla townie, not a power role, especially after or last conversation.

[Iron Butterfly]

If you get a third person to claim and they are Town you only help mafia. Lets say three people claim VT and they are all telling the truth. Mafia will know for a fact they are telling the truth while Town is in uncertainty. Who do you think mafia will target night 1? They will focus outside the three claimed Town in hopes of hitting PRrs.

This is exactly why I find it odd that you insist that players reveal their power roles in a claim before they've had a chance to use them. Or why the town would want to force people to claim at all. These things only seem to help the mafia.

So do you want discussion for discussion sake or do you want another claim?

I thought the whole point of this was discussion for discussion's sake. Isn't that supposed to help the townies with power roles figure out what to do at night? Why would you want to cut that short? I don't really care about forcing another claim, but if H8 is not going to talk, then he's not helping the town, and it's not going to be a huge loss if he's gone. But as I've said before, I'm not even sure that a lynch on the first day is necessary unless there's a strong read on one player.

Maybe your advice is standard thinking for this game, but some of it doesn't seem to make much sense if it's supposed to help the town. And I do find it suspicious that you want to shut down the discussion and end the day way ahead of whatever time limit there is.

Discuss away. But it seems to me you are pressuring H8. If he is Town and mafia knows he is Town, and the two claimed are Town mafias job is easier. i am getting tired of repeating myself.

[Lootifer]

I post on Tuesday, and Thursday I get prodded along with two other active posters? Meanwhile, I've made 19 posts (tied for 2nd in terms of activity), and H8 has made 4, nothing of substance, where were his prods?

I just went back through the thread and prodded anyone who hadn't posted within a certain time frame (8th or later was how I judged it).

H8 had managed to post early on the 8th so he didn't get prodded.

Prods are sent based on people being afk, not how many posts they make.

I can also confirm that the deadline will be Sunday the 20th of April, 2:38am CC-time.

[legionnare]

@charm sorry as you know things in the GON game have been heating up and most of my brainpower has been spent on that
@zivel I don't really have a read on anyone at the moment,, your points are fair but I don't agree that we should be voting for people for inactivity or lack of hunting, this is a slow n00b game after all, not much is going to happen D1.

As for voting for H8 purely based on inactivity, I don't think we should, surely the point of Noobsville is get more people interested?

No one has really posted anything that suspicious but Zivel still tops my list. vote Zivel

[degaston]

Discuss away. But it seems to me you are pressuring H8. If he is Town and mafia knows he is Town, and the two claimed are Town mafias job is easier. i am getting tired of repeating myself.

I put H8 at L-3 and you say I'm pressuring him? And even if I am, is that a bad thing considering his lack of activity?

And you haven't even answered once why getting two people to claim is just fine, but three or more claims only helps the mafia? Or why forcing a claim does anything but help the mafia, since you say we're always supposed to tell the truth? Or why you wanted to shut down the discussion and just vote to lynch or end the day more than a week before the deadline?

Fine, I'll take the pressure off H8. Unvote

But in general, I find your behavior pretty suspicious: Jumping the gun on a claim, evasive or non-answers to questions, and wanting to end the discussion early. So... Vote Iron Butterfly.

You're still at L-3, so I don't think that's too much pressure. We can see what other people want to do.

Heads up to everyone - I'm heading out on a vacation tomorrow, so I may not be able to make timely responses for the next week.

[charm]

Still here... not too much to add at the moment. Don't have a good read on charm. She's been exceedingly, well... charming. Which, has been somewhat suspicious to me... but my thought is that might just be charm being charm.

Oh MudPuppy you're such a flirt. Yes, I'm 100% CharM-ing!!


Do we really want this to go on for another 10 days?
Isn't the night action the first real key to getting this game moving?
That's what seemed to happen in my first game.

H8...where are you?
I'm going to change my vote if I don't see you adding 2 cents.

[Iron Butterfly]

Discuss away. But it seems to me you are pressuring H8. If he is Town and mafia knows he is Town, and the two claimed are Town mafias job is easier. i am getting tired of repeating myself.

I put H8 at L-3 and you say I'm pressuring him? And even if I am, is that a bad thing considering his lack of activity?

And you haven't even answered once why getting two people to claim is just fine, but three or more claims only helps the mafia? Or why forcing a claim does anything but help the mafia, since you say we're always supposed to tell the truth? Or why you wanted to shut down the discussion and just vote to lynch or end the day more than a week before the deadline?

Fine, I'll take the pressure off H8. Unvote

But in general, I find your behavior pretty suspicious: Jumping the gun on a claim, evasive or non-answers to questions, and wanting to end the discussion early. So... Vote Iron Butterfly.

You're still at L-3, so I don't think that's too much pressure. We can see what other people want to do.

Heads up to everyone - I'm heading out on a vacation tomorrow, so I may not be able to make timely responses for the next week.

I have an extremely strong mafia vibe on you. Are you usually this thick headed?

The reasoning?? Lets assume the two claimed are Town. Mafia KNOWS we are telling the truth if we are Town. Why try and kill VT at night when they have a better chance of killing a Town PR? Do you understand now?? It is simple logic. In a game this small are window for mistake is extremely small.

You wish to lynch me for evasion? Fine if one were lynched failing to grasp simple logic you would win hands down.

[degaston]

I have an extremely strong mafia vibe on you. Are you usually this thick headed?

The reasoning?? Lets assume the two claimed are Town. Mafia KNOWS we are telling the truth if we are Town. Why try and kill VT at night when they have a better chance of killing a Town PR? Do you understand now?? It is simple logic. In a game this small are window for mistake is extremely small.

You wish to lynch me for evasion? Fine if one were lynched failing to grasp simple logic you would win hands down.

Are you always this nice to your SoC players? This is a noob game, remember? I've never played this before, but a lot of the stuff you are saying makes no sense at all.

The mafia KNOWS that the townies who claim are telling the truth, only because YOU said we have to. If townies were allowed to lie to protect their role, then the mafia would not know. (Yes, I know about "Lynch all liars", but that's the kind of zero-tolerance crap that gets kids suspended for making a finger gun or bringing an aspirin to school, and I would not necessarily hold it against someone if they lied to protect the town.) And if truthfully revealing your role as a vanilla townie helps the mafia narrow down their search, then why would the townies want to make anyone claim? Again, that can only help the mafia (at least, when paired with your first piece of advice). Where is the logic in what you are suggesting? How does this help the town? Have you really thought about these statements, or are you just echoing things you've heard before without question? (or are you not actually trying to help the town?) Could it be that the town strategy needs to be different in a game of this small size.

You also say that not lynching someone on the first day is a bad idea, but the odds are greatly in favor of us lynching a townie, since we have no real evidence against anyone. The most suspicious activity at this point would seem to be casting the 5th vote, so who is realistically going to do that on the first day. If you do, and it turns out you lynched a townie, then you would be first on my list to get lynched on the next day.

I'm fine with ending the day without a lynch. When the mafia kills someone at night, then that will at least tell us one person who was being truthful (or can the mafia hammer their own, in order to try to draw away suspicion?), and maybe a power role can have a chance to do something useful.

[mookiemcgee]

Discuss away. But it seems to me you are pressuring H8. If he is Town and mafia knows he is Town, and the two claimed are Town mafias job is easier. i am getting tired of repeating myself.

I put H8 at L-3 and you say I'm pressuring him? And even if I am, is that a bad thing considering his lack of activity?

And you haven't even answered once why getting two people to claim is just fine, but three or more claims only helps the mafia? Or why forcing a claim does anything but help the mafia, since you say we're always supposed to tell the truth? Or why you wanted to shut down the discussion and just vote to lynch or end the day more than a week before the deadline?

Fine, I'll take the pressure off H8. Unvote

But in general, I find your behavior pretty suspicious: Jumping the gun on a claim, evasive or non-answers to questions, and wanting to end the discussion early. So... Vote Iron Butterfly.

You're still at L-3, so I don't think that's too much pressure. We can see what other people want to do.

Heads up to everyone - I'm heading out on a vacation tomorrow, so I may not be able to make timely responses for the next week.

I have an extremely strong mafia vibe on you. Are you usually this thick headed?

The reasoning?? Lets assume the two claimed are Town. Mafia KNOWS we are telling the truth if we are Town. Why try and kill VT at night when they have a better chance of killing a Town PR? Do you understand now?? It is simple logic. In a game this small are window for mistake is extremely small.

You wish to lynch me for evasion? Fine if one were lynched failing to grasp simple logic you would win hands down.

I feel like IB is just too cocky to be anything but Mafia. He chastised me early in this game for voting for him. He has done the same to everyone else who has voted for him, in essence calling everyone either stupid or suspicious for not understanding all his "simple concepts"... Dude its a newb game, no one yet understands the concepts thats the point. If you get defensive and demeaning in your explanations to everyone your not really teaching effectively!

Vote Iron Butterfly I feel like we'll learn the game faster without his "help", and I think with the limited information we have on day one there is as strong a chance that he is mafia as there is for anyone else.

[MudPuppy]

Still here... not too much to add at the moment. Don't have a good read on charm. She's been exceedingly, well... charming. Which, has been somewhat suspicious to me... but my thought is that might just be charm being charm.

Oh MudPuppy you're such a flirt. Yes, I'm 100% CharM-ing!!

See... There she goes again.

[MudPuppy]

IB very well could be scum. I've bet he's not and I don't plan to vote him unless I get other info (likely won't come on D1). One of the main reasons is I've come to dislike "policy" votes in my short experience with Mafia. If we lynch IB then and he flips town then there are a plethora of excuses why a townie would have voted for him: 1) he couldn't keep track of votes; 2) he's being a bully or holier than thou; 3) he's a veteran but hasn't been of much help to the newbies; etc., etc. So, any votes against him can be easily explained away and wind up giving the surviving townies little info.

A vote on Zivel, for example, is based mostly on a weak scum read. I'm still not an expert on vote analysis... but if he turns out to be town then I think the lack of drama around him only helps make the vote analysis easier: it basically comes down to do you think the person voting for him really had a scum read on him or did they, as scum, know he was town and go along with the vote just to ensure there was one less townie at the end of the day. I'm not saying that's an easy analysis to make... but it's a lot simpler than having to try and factor in all those other reasons based on "policy."

I recognize that what I'm calling "policy" votes are likely considered by some as true, strong scum reads. If you truly believe his actions are an indication that he's scum... then I fully support your vote against him. However, if you're tempted to vote for IB because you don't like the way he's played, then I'd encourage you to either find a scummier reason or vote elsewhere.

[MudPuppy]

IB very well could be scum. I've bet he's not and I don't plan to vote him unless I get other info (likely won't come on D1). One of the main reasons is I've come to dislike "policy" votes in my short experience with Mafia. If we lynch IB then and he flips town then there are a plethora of excuses why a townie would have voted for him: 1) he couldn't keep track of votes; 2) he's being a bully or holier than thou; 3) he's a veteran but hasn't been of much help to the newbies; etc., etc. So, any votes against him can be easily explained away and wind up giving the surviving townies little info.

A vote on Zivel, for example, is based mostly on a weak scum read. I'm still not an expert on vote analysis... but if he turns out to be town then I think the lack of drama around him only helps make the vote analysis easier: it basically comes down to do you think the person voting for him really had a scum read on him or did they, as scum, know he was town and go along with the vote just to ensure there was one less townie at the end of the day. I'm not saying that's an easy analysis to make... but it's a lot simpler than having to try and factor in all those other reasons based on "policy."

I recognize that what I'm calling "policy" votes are likely considered by some as true, strong scum reads. If you truly believe his actions are an indication that he's scum... then I fully support your vote against him. However, if you're tempted to vote for IB because you don't like the way he's played, then I'd encourage you to either find a scummier reason or vote elsewhere.

[MudPuppy]

Ooops... Sorry for the double post.

[degaston]

Still here... not too much to add at the moment. Don't have a good read on charm. She's been exceedingly, well... charming. Which, has been somewhat suspicious to me... but my thought is that might just be charm being charm.

Oh MudPuppy you're such a flirt. Yes, I'm 100% CharM-ing!!

See... There she goes again.

Jeez, get a room, you two! Come back and hunt scum once you're done.

[joak]

We have to lynch someone or the next days activities will be just like this pure guess work we may make a mistake but so be it you can't believe any claims at this point and fellow townies don't know who any one is ..to get the game moving we have to lynch in my opinion

[Iron Butterfly]

I have an extremely strong mafia vibe on you. Are you usually this thick headed?

The reasoning?? Lets assume the two claimed are Town. Mafia KNOWS we are telling the truth if we are Town. Why try and kill VT at night when they have a better chance of killing a Town PR? Do you understand now?? It is simple logic. In a game this small are window for mistake is extremely small.

You wish to lynch me for evasion? Fine if one were lynched failing to grasp simple logic you would win hands down.

Are you always this nice to your SoC players? This is a noob game, remember? I've never played this before, but a lot of the stuff you are saying makes no sense at all.

The mafia KNOWS that the townies who claim are telling the truth, only because YOU said we have to. If townies were allowed to lie to protect their role, then the mafia would not know. (Yes, I know about "Lynch all liars", but that's the kind of zero-tolerance crap that gets kids suspended for making a finger gun or bringing an aspirin to school, and I would not necessarily hold it against someone if they lied to protect the town.) And if truthfully revealing your role as a vanilla townie helps the mafia narrow down their search, then why would the townies want to make anyone claim? Again, that can only help the mafia (at least, when paired with your first piece of advice). Where is the logic in what you are suggesting? How does this help the town? Have you really thought about these statements, or are you just echoing things you've heard before without question? (or are you not actually trying to help the town?) Could it be that the town strategy needs to be different in a game of this small size.

You also say that not lynching someone on the first day is a bad idea, but the odds are greatly in favor of us lynching a townie, since we have no real evidence against anyone. The most suspicious activity at this point would seem to be casting the 5th vote, so who is realistically going to do that on the first day. If you do, and it turns out you lynched a townie, then you would be first on my list to get lynched on the next day.

I'm fine with ending the day without a lynch. When the mafia kills someone at night, then that will at least tell us one person who was being truthful (or can the mafia hammer their own, in order to try to draw away suspicion?), and maybe a power role can have a chance to do something useful.

At its simplest you need to play mafia to learn mafia. I was a walking train wreck my first game. I am at a certian disadvantage because I thought I could help newbies learn but part of the problem lies in that I am playing mafia. I could be Town or I could be mafia so no matter what i do i will be second guessed. THAT can be used against me and has. No biggie...its mafia.

This is not only a game of logic but one paranoia and second guessing. It comes with the territory. You can take my advice or leave it. Insofar as the students of SoC I am a firm believer in tuff love. If I had a dollar for every time someone asked for advice and then did what they wanted to do anyways Id be rich.

So you play how you see fit. I suggest you play a few games outside this one and test your strategies. Knowing your Town is meaningless unless you can convince others you are who you say while at the same time others will try and make you look like scum by critisizing and second guessing. Again that's the life of mafia.

With that said you do as you see fit.

[Zivel]

Ok, it has been crazy in my world lately and I am sorry I have not been able to get on sooner. Doing a computer science degree as a returning student and its tough work.

It appears that I have butchered this game so far. The past games I have played, I have been voted off early for either being to passive or not actively scum hunting. It appears that I did not read this game well and realised that it was a slow noob game well after I had been to aggressive. I did not want to appear scummy because I was being to passive, and now it appears that I am seen as scummy because I am to aggressive and seen as trying to hard.

Kinda sucks cause I like this game but I suck at it, and acknowledge that voting me out now would be the best course of action for town. I have not meant anything at the people I asked questions I just wanted to 'shake the tree' as the MOD explained to see what would fall out.

I dont want to force another claim as I can only see that as being pro scum so I am going to vote IB and let the cards fall as they may.
Unvote Vote: Iron Butterfly

[H8 AFK]

Seems my name keeps popping up now and then because I don't say much, that seems to go against me, it also seems to me that the guys (and gal) who do speak up also come into the firing line.

Paranoia and mistrust are rife, no-one wants to look the fool by voting off a townie team mate on the first day. Lets face it, it'd be just as easy picking names out of a virtual hat on the first day of lynching as everyone keeps there cards close to their chests.........say too much, get lynched.........say too little, get lynched.

I'm a noob at this but I'm sure that now I've spoken it'll be joaks turn to get picked on, I'm sure he's said less than me.