[CC4] Kort vs TSM (35-25) FINAL 6/14/14

by **josko.ri** on Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:38 am

Skillfull 35 min left fna

by **friendly1** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:43 am

Hmm - I'm finally back from some wonderful travels and walk into an interesting twist in this war in the first hour

Last night for a period of about an hour one of our clanmates was able to view opposition team chat from games. We want to be open and as fair as we can be regarding this. I don't think it is much advantage in our games as both our groups are experienced in reading opponents strategies and moves, but then again maybe so.

However after some digging, based on randoms game chat posts it also appears at least one individual from KORT had the same ability. So I am assuming we are both aware of all opposition team chat that has taken place in our games.

I don't know if the Clan Directors are aware of this glitch (the tech team is aware), and also I'm not sure if this in any way compromises any games... After reading through several pages of colorful posts about game creation and joining timing, I think there is no chance the CD's would offer that any games are compromised whether that was the case or not as it would require recreating a game or several.

So i thought perhaps our two clans can determine a resolution that we both find amicable without CD consultation? (Although I will pm them the link to this topic, and allow the powers that be to choose to intervene or not). Human nature would suggest that as we are behind in the game count we would prefer all games be recreated and as KORT is ahead they would prefer no games be recreated. Neither option strikes me as being reasonable, but that's just me. The easiest route is to just say oh well and continue on, but I think both clans should have the opportunity to choose that option as opposed to having it forced on them. And have the chance to disagree with the above if anyone feels that way.

TSM as a clan is very fair, and we don't want wins in any games that are due to an unfair advantage. In games I've played with KORT members I've found them to also conduct themselves very fairly, although I am surprised and a little peeved no heads up pm or post was made about being able to view our team chat. Anyways, perhaps if both clans do a quick look through the clan games and see if any are blatantly compromised for either team?

I'll stop here and see what kind of responses come..

f1

by **fishydance** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:02 am

friendly1 wrote:Hmm - I'm finally back from some wonderful travels and walk into an interesting twist in this war in the first hour

Last night for a period of about an hour one of our clanmates was able to view opposition team chat from games. We want to be open and as fair as we can be regarding this. I don't think it is much advantage in our games as both our groups are experienced in reading opponents strategies and moves, but then again maybe so.

However after some digging, based on randoms game chat posts it also appears at least one individual from KORT had the same ability. So I am assuming we are both aware of all opposition team chat that has taken place in our games.

I don't know if the Clan Directors are aware of this glitch (the tech team is aware), and also I'm not sure if this in any way compromises any games... After reading through several pages of colorful posts about game creation and joining timing, I think there is no chance the CD's would offer that any games are compromised whether that was the case or not as it would require recreating a game or several.

So i thought perhaps our two clans can determine a resolution that we both find amicable without CD consultation? (Although I will pm them the link to this topic, and allow the powers that be to choose to intervene or not). Human nature would suggest that as we are behind in the game count we would prefer all games be recreated and as KORT is ahead they would prefer no games be recreated. Neither option strikes me as being reasonable, but that's just me. The easiest route is to just say oh well and continue on, but I think both clans should have the opportunity to choose that option as opposed to having it forced on them. And have the chance to disagree with the above if anyone feels that way.

TSM as a clan is very fair, and we don't want wins in any games that are due to an unfair advantage. In games I've played with KORT members I've found them to also conduct themselves very fairly, although I am surprised and a little peeved no heads up pm or post was made about being able to view our team chat. Anyways, perhaps if both clans do a quick look through the clan games and see if any are blatantly compromised for either team?

I'll stop here and see what kind of responses come..

f1

I was online at the time this happened, but did not have the ability to see anything from the opposing team, nor did the one member of my clan I spoke to at the time. Do we have any idea how widespread this issue was, in terms of potential breech of game chat?

by **josko.ri** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:25 am

I have just checked throughout all my games, and I did not find that any my teammate saw something nor I saw something, this is actually my first hearing about the issue.

friendly1 wrote:I don't think it is much advantage in our games as both our groups are experienced in reading opponents strategies and moves, but then again maybe so.

I also think like you, that seeing opponent's chat is not much an advantage, especially considering the fact that some of our chats were seen by you, and (as you stated) some of your chats were seen by us. It is in my opinion another part of luck factor, someone is lucky on dice and someone was lucky to be online in the "happy hour".

So, in considering possible solutions, I do not see remaking games as the best solution for issue that does not give much advantage. Seeing opponents' chat in comparing with remaking games which are some of them already decided (as there is not key to determine which games were decided and which were not) is minor issue, especially considering the fact that (by your words, as I still did not see anyone speaks about this in our forum) both clans could equally see opponents' chat, so no one side was in explicit advantage because of the glitch.

Only my 5 cents

by **skillfull** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:19 am

I think Friendly were speaking about the no-decided games of course...
I also think that the details that we got from that bug ( speaking about my games ) are useless.

Maybe it is important for other maps, but for Poison Rome and Hive were useless...i could prove it but i guess it is not the point right now , i will only answer to my enemies and prove why the details we got from it were completely useless for the rest of the game...

I think the point is not what to do with the games but what we are going to do if something similar will happen again or how can we be so sure that this will not happen again.

Of course it is not our fault that a monki could seen all the chats, but i would preferred to hear all the KORTS to speak because it might be a crusial thing to some games...

Speaking for my games, i would like to continue as they are.

by **chemefreak** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:42 am

friendly1 wrote:I don't know if the Clan Directors are aware of this glitch (the tech team is aware), and also I'm not sure if this in any way compromises any games... After reading through several pages of colorful posts about game creation and joining timing, I think there is no chance the CD's would offer that any games are compromised whether that was the case or not as it would require recreating a game or several.

We are aware of the glitch. At this point, it seems that the other team was able to see the chat of the opposing clan. So far, I haven't seen anything that would lead me to believe there has been a game (yet) that we would need to have a discussion regarding a remake. However, if there is any such issue, please bring it to your clan leader to get in contact with me. I pm'd the leaders of the four clans in CCup4 on Sunday and asked them to keep me in the loop on any such issues (thanks friendly1).

Our past rulings regarding site glitches might be instructive on this issue, but it is premature at this point I think. Again, let your clan leaders know, either friendly1 or bruceswar if you feel there is a compromised game. Thanks!

by **Shannon Apple** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:48 am

This issue was reported directly to BigWham by myself almost immediately after it was realised. He sorted it straight away. I couldn't see other people's chat, but I know 1 member of Kort could and 1 person not in clans who I asked about it via Skype. (That friend wouldn't have been aware except that I told him) We then tested game chat in one of my games and one of his. I couldn't see private chats, so it was selective. BW used the test we did to find the issue and fix it. I don't even think the issue was around long enough to cause any concern to games. Even if I could see game chat myself, I would not have taken advantage of this, and I hope others were mature enough not to

In the words of a friend, "only the fanatics will care" and I tend to agree. Had this bug existed longer than it did, I could certainly see some people going mad from various clans, but I don't think that it had any significant impact considering that 1 member of Kort had this ability and was rushing out to work, so didn't have much time to do anything except warn us. I am trusting that friendly1 didn't take advantage of it either, so I think, imo, we should just move on.

At worst, monkeys know our position in fog games.

by **random21** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:19 pm

howdy, folks. so I'm the one who noticed it from our side.

so I've been kind of busy today/yesterday with work. but yes. i experienced the above, i wasn't able to report it myself, as i would be late for work, but i told some of my clan mates who in turn reported it to big wham, and the problem was fixed. NONE of my clan mates seemed to be able to do any of this. if there is any issue, i will respond to it from cd's or tsm clan. for me it was only yesterday, for 20-30 min before i went to work. when i got back from work it was gone. it affected no games. it couldn't have. they're all decided.

it is not so much being able to see opponents games, as it is just anyone's. more often than not, i went into a game, and i saw my own teams chat… when this should not be possible. i only glanced through 8-10 games. only half i actually saw anything, the other half were just normal. cds can go through my account. i have no problem with this. see what my account activity was or whatever. in half of the games i went into, i saw my clan mates chat. etc. and it wasn't even opponents game chat. i just saw ballenus (maybe rod ion?) and astoriana? teams chat, good communication team! and one of josko/general roy etc game i think?

i did not search any batch 2 games. i only saw batch 1 games. they all seemed pretty much decided. cricket, a dubs with astoriana ballenus i saw my clan mates team chat, hmm. but i was rushed for work anyways.

in this war, i have played 2 dubs in batch 1. and few more games in batch 2. batch 1 games are already done. and batch 2 games, i didn't search, and going into my own everything was normal (for batch 2 games i have currently).

do not assume i am aware of any meaningful game chat for strategy purposes in any way. i do not know any of your plans.

i started to comment in cricket last night, but it was fixed. probably should have expanded a bit more. but it was over, and i didn't get much of anything from it. i was going to come back to it today, but i was not so much in hurry since it had been fixed. but i was not going to ignore it, as we both know, this affected both clans. and with further discussion, i hear this is more widespread, then just our one clan game. so it is something that needs to be addressed…. but not because of game chat?

having said all this. id like to be sure about something from tsm. were any games searched from batch 2? as i remember it was more than game chat that could be seen. in fact, any fog game, whatever teams you were able to log into- so to speak i guess, you were also able to see without fog restrictions. i know this because cricket was fog, and i saw everything from tsm side. don't worry though, as anyone from my clan could tell you, i am clueless on the map and wouldn't be able to give directions or status of the game anyways. but based on last few lines of your team chat, that game is over.

this is more what i was going to bring up today, rather than chat. chat i think is more or less meaningless. if there is a target, i think both sides/clan know who is their weakest team member etc.

howevere. if batch 2 games were seen. fog games… from tsm, there may be some reason for remakes? I'm not sure

anyways, let me know what you have in mind

by **skillfull** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:15 pm

As far as I know, he saw only chat, there are no comments about seeing without fog the foggy games.
He saw Poison Rome and Hive chats ( batch 2), about POison rome, we didnt find anything new, but just the obvious ( your mates were talking about their deployments, which we saw the results after the attack, and about Julia-whoever has played this map he can understand that green took that bonus since the game log wrote he attacked a neutral etc etc easy for us), so it didn't help us at all if that is what you are asking(your mates could confirmed what we saw in chat.).
Hive, only chat, nothing to help us.
Cricket, nothing

Speaking for all the monkis, we want to win fair and square, that is why we firstly reported to Blake before post it here, we do not want a single win came by cheat.

by **friendly1** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Hmm, that's interesting. To answer your question, we weren't aware you could see through the fog restrictions... but it's definitely something I'm glad to know about. If we had been aware the tone of my original post would have been much more aggressive to considering game remakes for any games that may have been skewed.

I don't (my own opinion) believe viewing team chat gives any advantage except in rare instances. Map positions and strength are completely a different story.

by **random21** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:45 pm

oh shannon you posted! lol didn't even see

no need to be aggressive. would be awful for your namesake.

if some one in your clan was able to see game chat, then fog of war was lifted and they were able to see whether they pointed it out, or not, or whether they noticed it or not. i would check in with this member and ask him. maybe he did maybe he didn't and only looked at game chat.

no games from batch 1 are skewed, unless you think i could have seen a fog game that is still undecided. from what i saw, games were over. as of yesterday, nothing that matters can change those games?

as for batch 2 games, if you only looked at a couple games, it probably doesn't matter. we don't care. we'll just mOOOOO a little louder or something

kort will play these games fairly just as tsm will. we don't think game remakes are in order

gl monkies, fair games

by **laughingcavalier** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:55 pm

random21 wrote:oh shannon you posted! lol didn't even see

no need to be aggressive. would be awful for your namesake.

if some one in your clan was able to see game chat, then fog of war was lifted and they were able to see whether they pointed it out, or not, or whether they noticed it or not. i would check in with this member and ask him. maybe he did maybe he didn't and only looked at game chat.

no games from batch 1 are skewed, unless you think i could have seen a fog game that is still undecided. from what i saw, games were over. as of yesterday, nothing that matters can change those games?

as for batch 2 games, if you only looked at a couple games, it probably doesn't matter. we don't care. we'll just mOOOOO a little louder or something

kort will play these games fairly just as tsm will. we don't think game remakes are in order

gl monkies, fair games

This sounds fair and sensible to me. The one game I have concerns about from our side is Trafalgar - if you saw the gamechat then you know our strategy and hidden territories, so if you could just confirm no-one saw that I am happy.

by **firstholliday** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:58 pm

this will allways be a bit dodgy......
with a loss in a fog game, will there allways be 100% trust...?
Can't be i think...

anyway i,m happy with whatever is decided.

by **random21** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:13 pm

no one saw trafalgar

agreed this one is touchy, this cow team uses mostly game chat too, and as only 6 territories per player, etc. greater risk, ... any game with me in it, i went into it as my team, and saw things the correct way. this game was not seen by tsm as well then it is safe to say?

i did not look through any batch 2 games. it will not take long for us to cycle through all kort members to see if this happened to anyone else, (all cows like to moo together you see, we all graze the green pastures in groups) so far I'm the only one I've heard talk about this. if there was someone else, its been 24 hours since it happened to me, and we would have heard

to the degree that this is a bit dodgy and nothing can be done about it by the nature of the incident - yes

but as i think there has been rather swift recognition of the incident by both sides.. i passing it to clan mates, reporting it and solving it -bigwham i believe can attest to what happened, (commenting in a batch 1 game, instead of keeping quiet) and tsm admitting to also having members see opponents games and posting in war thread, i believe we can call the issue resolved.

by **Hatchman** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:35 pm

Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

by **Shannon Apple** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 2:51 pm

Hatchman wrote:Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

Likewise.

by **firstholliday** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:01 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:
Hatchman wrote:Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

Likewise.

eheheh love the sig!!
:lol:

by **Shannon Apple** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:39 pm

firstholliday wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
Hatchman wrote:Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

Likewise.

eheheh love the sig!!

Haha, thanks. :lol:

I made a special version of it for Bruce since he said his poop was bigger than a monkeys. :lol:

by **Hatchman** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:43 pm

But... monkey poop is small. Makes good projectiles.

by **fishydance** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:05 pm

Hatchman wrote:But... monkey poop is small. Makes good projectiles.

Fish poop is even smaller! And is far more toxic. If you are nice to me, I'll consider a trade after our games are completed :lol:

by **friendly1** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:57 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:
firstholliday wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
Hatchman wrote:Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

Likewise.

eheheh love the sig!!

Haha, thanks.

I made a special version of it for Bruce since he said his poop was bigger than a monkeys.

The bull appears to be a steer :shock:

by **Shannon Apple** on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:06 pm

friendly1 wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
firstholliday wrote:
Shannon Apple wrote:
Hatchman wrote:Sounds great guys. We respect the good faith and excellent sportsmanship.

Likewise.

eheheh love the sig!!

Haha, thanks.

I made a special version of it for Bruce since he said his poop was bigger than a monkeys.

The bull appears to be a steer