Jonty125's Mad Mafia Game Over

[Lootifer]

Is there a reason you think KGB is scummarizing more than Benga? By unvoting Benga, NoS is now back in the lead with 2 votes, and everyone else having single votes, which would result in NoS being lynched and no runoff if it stays this way.

Firstly we need to clear this up I think, and Jonty correct me if I am wrong.

This is how it will work right now:

NoS has 2, 3 others have 1. Thats a total of 5 votes cast, and the leader has 2 of 5 votes, this is not a majority; thus we will, if everything stays the same, go to a run off situation.

Now the run off situation - the last time I mention it I promise: Jonty clearly states that in a run off we can only vote for those who already had votes on them. So the run off now would be between NoS, neb, kgb, and new_guy (and for completness: no lynch would not be possible under my interpretation - one of those 4 would end up dead).

So I have two ideas for discussion: First one is relies on everyone being active in the next 24 hours or whatever before deadline. Basically we co-ordinate to make sure everyone has one vote on them at deadline. Therefore we have a full selection for run off. Maybe before hand we could list who we are likely to vote for to get some claims. However, I think if we wanted to do this we should have done it a while ago.

My second idea is to populate the vote count with our scum reads; this means not voting with intent to lynch but voting to ensure those who you think are scummy are represented in a run off (i.e. force a run off).

show: For example

Not quite sure how to factor in claims into this...

Thoughts?

Also I will post a reads list sometime today (i.e. actual content! )

[Metsfanmax]

I am really not a fan of taking advantage of game mechanics in the first way you are suggesting, Lootifer. It seems like a cheap way to make progress. I am fine with voting for anyone you have an actual scum read on, and choosing between a justified selection though.

[NoSurvivors]

Vote Count

NoSurvivors (2) - Lootifer; Nebuchadnezer
Benga (1) - Anarkistsdream;


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is Monday, 24th February @ 1800 GMT. If the vote count were to remain as so at deadline a NoSurvivors would be lynched.

According to your rules, there has to be a majority turnout to have a lynching... I don't think 3 votes is a majority turnout... so why would NoS be lynched if it ended now?

I believe they say majority FROM THE turnout.

@mets I will be lynched according to this post.

[NoSurvivors]

Sorry my above post is incorrect and was aimed at loot lol. Re-reading tells me that I would need 3 votes to be lunched not 2... But a scum can jump in last second and vote me and then I'm screwed anyways!

So at this point, I am not certain what to do... I don't really feel a need to claim unless more people want that from me. 2 people IMO isn't enough for me to claim. However since the deadline is a few hours away, i might be inclined to do so...

I'm willing to do whatever town deems as best. Really crappy scenario though due to lack of activity from a lot of players...

( on an off topic note-I am not new (a few of you were wondering) but I'm not very good at the game as I play very periodically. However I definitely want to play more often because I love it )

[Metsfanmax]

Sorry my above post is incorrect and was aimed at loot lol. Re-reading tells me that I would need 3 votes to be lunched not 2... But a scum can jump in last second and vote me and then I'm screwed anyways!

Yes, but if you're town then that's a worthwhile sacrifice to pick off who one of the mafia is after D1.

[NoSurvivors]

I am really not a fan of taking advantage of game mechanics in the first way you are suggesting, Lootifer. It seems like a cheap way to make progress. I am fine with voting for anyone you have an actual scum read on, and choosing between a justified selection though.

Geez sorry for the triple post here lol. I really need to learn how to put my thoughts into one post...

Why is it a bad thing to make progress? I don't understand...

[NoSurvivors]

That's true I suppose mets... 1/1 on day one seems pretty good

[Lootifer]

I am really not a fan of taking advantage of game mechanics in the first way you are suggesting, Lootifer. It seems like a cheap way to make progress. I am fine with voting for anyone you have an actual scum read on, and choosing between a justified selection though.

I agree and disagree but I am not going to get into debate about it; imo any debate is moot since I think we'd need more than 24 hours to organise it, and, well, I know what arguing with you is like...

[Metsfanmax]

I am really not a fan of taking advantage of game mechanics in the first way you are suggesting, Lootifer. It seems like a cheap way to make progress. I am fine with voting for anyone you have an actual scum read on, and choosing between a justified selection though.

I agree and disagree but I am not going to get into debate about it; imo any debate is moot since I think we'd need more than 24 hours to organise it, and, well, I know what arguing with you is like...

Are you suggesting that I am obstinate? Rubbish.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Well, this is quite the situation we've gotten ourselves into. Essentially, we have 5 people voting. Those 5 votes will determine who can get lynched. Right now, me, NoSurvivors, KGB and Benga are on the block. Were the counts different, I would probably unvote, because lynching anyone with two votes seems ridiculous. However, it also seems ridiculous that we have 16 players and only 5 of us voting.

Now we still have a day or so for everyone to get in here...however, it will be very interesting to see the run-off and how many people suddenly come out and vote during that. At least put some FOSs out there, people! Otherwise, this lynch is as good as a blind random lynch.

[Metsfanmax]

Well, this is quite the situation we've gotten ourselves into. Essentially, we have 5 people voting. Those 5 votes will determine who can get lynched. Right now, me, NoSurvivors, KGB and Benga are on the block. Were the counts different, I would probably unvote, because lynching anyone with two votes seems ridiculous. However, it also seems ridiculous that we have 16 players and only 5 of us voting.

Now we still have a day or so for everyone to get in here...however, it will be very interesting to see the run-off and how many people suddenly come out and vote during that. At least put some FOSs out there, people! Otherwise, this lynch is as good as a blind random lynch.

Well, in the interests of a fair run-off at least,

Vote Nebuchadnezer

I don't believe particularly strongly in any of the cases, but safari's is the best out of what we have.

[NoSurvivors]

As this may or may not be my last post for 24 hours (forum ban) I would strongly advise anyone with reason for me to claim say it now... Lol.

I would not recommend lynching me. All I can say in my defense, really. Better off going for unhelpful scummariners.

[Lootifer]

My reads to end the day for me:

- virus90: I initially thought that post on page 4 was weird, but I think thats just him. His damn english twists my noodle so I find him hard to read, but gut townish feel, null-town
- Anark: One of my more townish reads but he was one of the people who jumped on the pseudo-NoS wagon without actually voting, with out much reasoning, still towny but IGMEOY
- IB: Seemed fairly null/neutral but I still find his initial interaction with edoc as slightly suspicious. Seems to be genuinely probing though, null-town
- new_guy: A couple of nothing posts and a couple of promises then nothing, like virus I dont really trust this. null-scum
- Neb: OMGUS aside, his vote on NoS, to me, was pretty much null, slightly scummy with the wagoning but could just be pressure. null
- Mets: Seems his usual assertive/argumentative self (rather than any alignment tells) so I got nothing. I do wonder about the reasons behind jdeans flake, but that by itself is less than nothing. null
- Eldario: Inactivity is meh, but his two posts show he was reading the thread but had no interest in providing content, skating by and the inactive/lurker I would be most comfortable lynching. null-scum
- Hotshot: There was something genuine about his early posting once things got underway, but has seemed to be skating along recently (and somewhat misguided, but thats not alignment indicative). was town, now null
- Safari: Not enough for me to really comment on, useful input but nothing I can read. null
- Lootifer: His usual awesome self. 100% certain he's Awesome
- edocsil: Hmmm. I dont like how he has taken a back seat in this game. There's obvious participation, but it hasnt been particularly pro-town, which is odd because he's quite experienced right? I feel like his strategy (of avoiding voting etc.) was always going to result in the lottery we find ourselves in. Did he intend it that way? Maybe. null-scum
- crasp: Meh, i'd be inclined to vote him if I thought it might generate more content and we had more time, but as it is I think he gets a free pass today. How much experience do you have crasp? null
- kgb: Blergh boy am I over scrolling through this thread to find the 1-2 posts by each of our army of skaters and flakes. Setup speculation is an old-school scum-tell on mafiascum, but it seems less so here; but still: its easy to seem active while speculating about setup and other information-heavy, content-light subjects. null-scum
- nag: I am quickly running out enthusiasm for this, much more fun when theres 8 players to read... anyhoo... nothing. null
- NoS: Nothing really has changed in this space, either newb-town or scum imo. Prob leaning slightly more towards the town option from recent posting but still some black marks against his name for me. null-scum
- benga: I give up... Just flipped a coin, sorry dude you're scum, the coin doesnt lie.

Im split on either putting edoc or eldario into the mix for the run-off. If both are town I feel edoc will be more useful to keep around so vote eldario

Anyway bugger this, im going to bed. And wont be awake before day ends.

[Nebuchadnezer]

My reads on the town are that I want to see several people post more (nag/benga and others to a lesser extent) and I have a gut feeling about either IB or mets, but I'm not sure. (I'm good at maing enemies eh? ) as for you... You seem to post moderately and always with a sense of... I don't know, leadership. That's good. We need people like that to kick life into the game. I feel you are likely town.

Not to get too meta, but certain players have a habit of acting like a leader in general. This can be a good cover for mafia if the player is skillful at this.

With players who have played a lot, getting a read on differences from their playstyle can be a clue that they are not town.

I think prodding benga will be a good idea, and given he has had some activity in other games, I hope he will rejoin the discussion.

I don't understand the pressure on NoS for the no lynch discussion. Here is his post again.

Lootifer, honestly I think I've been the scummiest player here too. Now, assuming for a moment you believe me to be town...

I believe the second scummiest player to be IB, for the reasons I posted earlier. I certainly don't think there's enough to lynch him, but the fact that he has pushed more than anyone for a bandwagon of some sort (pushing and questioning anything that talks to him). He seems to believe that a no lynch really isn't an option.

Now, I know that I'm town and pressure on me won't help anyone any, but of course you'd have to believe me for that . But I definitely would be the most obvious choice for pressure votes, and I will gladly (well, not gladly but i will) claim.

But my vote if nothing arises will be going on IB. He seems to be edgy and trying too hard to be town.

Fast posted by hotshot...

I re-read your post loot, and I read that you didn't want a case but ill keep that up there anyways.

My reads on the town are that I want to see several people post more (nag/benga and others to a lesser extent) and I have a gut feeling about either IB or mets, but I'm not sure. (I'm good at maing enemies eh? ) as for you... You seem to post moderately and always with a sense of... I don't know, leadership. That's good. We need people like that to kick life into the game. I feel you are likely town.

Show me where I pushed anyone at anytime for a bandwagon? Where did I mention no-lynch? Talk about half truth and misinformation.

I apologize, I meant to say that it seems like to you no lynch isn't an option. Personally I feel it's the best option after a pressure vote to get something out of day 1, especially since we have few leads, but that could just be me.

And yes a bandwagon for people to jump on myself or mets so as that you keep your hands clean and get the focus on someone. Again this could be how you play but from my point if view you seem to be jumping at people and trying to center people out. That's not necessarily a bad thing but me being town and being pressured by you quite a bit, it seems you're trying too hard to get a mob mentality and a lynch.

These are my sentiments as well, and I want to point out that at no point is NoS advocating a no lynch right now. One can infer that since no pressure claim has come, he is not in favor of a no lynch right now either.

Lootifer, honestly I think I've been the scummiest player here too. Now, assuming for a moment you believe me to be town...

I believe the second scummiest player to be IB, for the reasons I posted earlier. I certainly don't think there's enough to lynch him, but the fact that he has pushed more than anyone for a bandwagon of some sort (pushing and questioning anything that talks to him). He seems to believe that a no lynch really isn't an option.

Now, I know that I'm town and pressure on me won't help anyone any, but of course you'd have to believe me for that . But I definitely would be the most obvious choice for pressure votes, and I will gladly (well, not gladly but i will) claim.

But my vote if nothing arises will be going on IB. He seems to be edgy and trying too hard to be town.

Fast posted by hotshot...

I re-read your post loot, and I read that you didn't want a case but ill keep that up there anyways.

My reads on the town are that I want to see several people post more (nag/benga and others to a lesser extent) and I have a gut feeling about either IB or mets, but I'm not sure. (I'm good at maing enemies eh? ) as for you... You seem to post moderately and always with a sense of... I don't know, leadership. That's good. We need people like that to kick life into the game. I feel you are likely town.

Show me where I pushed anyone at anytime for a bandwagon? Where did I mention no-lynch? Talk about half truth and misinformation.

I didn't catch this on my first read through...NoSurvivors, why do you think that a "no lynch" is a good choice? Lootifer was right, we aren't using our only ability to kill scum, which is the lynch/vote. No lynch is NOT a good option, as there will be a run off if there is a tie...and no lynch gives us no info, nothing to verify later in the game.

I'm tired of sitting on the fence waiting for something to develop. Vote NoSurvivors

Your whole post above smells of scum to me. I'm not buying the "oh, I'm so scummy, but I'm town" bit. Nor do I like how you just kissed butt on Lootifer...smells of buddying to me. So, I'm calling your bluff that you'd be happy to claim...

Fast posted by NoSurvivors

But we haven't even pressured anyone today, for you to start talking about a "no lynch." You're my best lead...and it's not because of Iron. I find your posts to carry the slight odor of scum.

I assume that Neb is referring to that part of NoS's post.

No lynching can be an option if we have gotten sufficient claims or other information from Day 1. It has happened in several games after one or two claims. Again, I don't see NoS advocating for a no lynch right now. This to me says Neb is trying to push a bandwagon and probably skimming a bit too.

vote Neb

Well...I don't have much to say in my defense of this. I found NoSurvivors to be the best lead this day. It wasn't only the "no lynch" discussion (which after re-reading, I see why you are looking at it the way you do), but his other odd posts.

I am at least happy that you voted, but now Nosurvivors and I are in the same boat. Claim or be killed unknown, while most of the players in this game sleep-walk through the day...

[NoSurvivors]

I really don't want to quote neb's post lol but I do feel the same sentiments... I feel it a bit unjust that people who have contributed literally nothing are getting off scot free.

I'm interested to see if this gets people more active. I'm sad I can only vote one of them though.

VOTE KGB for scummarining. I feel if there's going to be a run off, a scummariner should be in the mix as well.

[kgb007]

sry folks, i like to remove myself from the internet/comp during the weekends as much as possible, i was up to date on posts as of Thursday but really didn't think there was much traction made or compelling arguments so give me a few hours to get things straightened at work and i'll comment on what i think is relevant

[kgb007]

wow you guys have made a mess of today..we all know D1 cases are lean to begin with, i've only played maybe 5-6 games before this one so my scum hunting abilities probably aren't the sharpest amongst our 16 but focusing on this runoff seems to be putting people on edge

i'm not really moved by any of the cases/votes, the more people nominated for the run off, the easier it will be for scum to sway the final vote count since townies on the block will get paranoid and vote for whomever has the most votes to pursue their self preservation interests

i'll vote no lynch so we have the option at least

[jonty125]

@ crasp yes joke voting at the beginning of the game is normal on this forum so im pretty sure they were jokevoting especially since i have played with these guys before.
@ jonty, (sure he will read it when bolt en red) bit selective in your prodding ? i get prodded for not reacting for 1 day, which in my opinion is a reasonable time not to react, and others who havent posted for a longer period of time havent been prodded ? (no offense just wanted to note that, maybe missed my post)

I prod those who according to my spreadsheet haven't posted in 3 days, I apologise, if I miss someone's post.

[safariguy5]

That's true I suppose mets... 1/1 on day one seems pretty good

1 for 1 on any day is great for town except LYLO. With the great numerical advantage we have over mafia, any one of them we can pick off that only costs 1 townie is of great use to us because we proportionally weaken their faction much more than they hurt us.

Also,

wow you guys have made a mess of today..we all know D1 cases are lean to begin with, i've only played maybe 5-6 games before this one so my scum hunting abilities probably aren't the sharpest amongst our 16 but focusing on this runoff seems to be putting people on edge

i'm not really moved by any of the cases/votes, the more people nominated for the run off, the easier it will be for scum to sway the final vote count since townies on the block will get paranoid and vote for whomever has the most votes to pursue their self preservation interests

i'll vote no lynch so we have the option at least

Really? We just went over how no lynch is an option when we actually have claims and information. We have none of that right now. No lynching today is absolutely terrible right now, and giving people the option makes it so we theoretically could get nothing from the day. I don't even think it would be a good read of who's mafia because I can see some town people voting it to avoid getting lynched because they have a power role or something. I read this as more jumpy scum behavior than anything.

unvote vote kgb

[edocsil]

As this may or may not be my last post for 24 hours (forum ban) I would strongly advise anyone with reason for me to claim say it now... Lol.

I would not recommend lynching me. All I can say in my defense, really. Better off going for unhelpful scummariners.

I currently plan on placing my vote on you in the run off. If you PM jonty with a quoted claim, I am sure he will impartially place it for you.

Few things however before hand.

1. Voting scummariers is dumb. (At everyone btw) It is a total cop out and any one of at least 3 people could be accused of it. It has nothing to do with finding scum, nothing at all.

2. @ NoS, I don't care for allowing soft power claims. Anyone can do it, and there are too many people to keep track of who is honest and who is not.

Vote Nos

[nagerous]

Vote Count

NoSurvivors (2) - Lootifer; Nebuchadnezer
Benga (1) - Anarkistsdream;


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is Monday, 24th February @ 1800 GMT. If the vote count were to remain as so at deadline a NoSurvivors would be lynched.

Apologies I have been very busy this weekend and haven't had much time to post anywhere.


However, if you are going to provide tight deadlines you should at least be giving us regular up to date vote counts otherwise we're shooting in the blind.

[nagerous]

Vote Count

NoSurvivors (2) - Lootifer; Nebuchadnezer
Benga (1) - Anarkistsdream;


With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Deadline is Monday, 24th February @ 1800 GMT. If the vote count were to remain as so at deadline a NoSurvivors would be lynched.

Apologies I have been very busy this weekend and haven't had much time to post anywhere.


However, if you are going to provide tight deadlines you should at least be giving us regular up to date vote counts otherwise we're shooting in the blind.

[nagerous]

So by that count, that is the deadline or are we allowed an extension ?

[jonty125]

Vote Count

kgb007 (3) - Anarkistsdream; NoSurvivors; safariguy5
NoSurvivors (2) - Nebuchadnezer; edocsil
Nebuchadnezer (2) - safariguy5; Metsfanmax
Benga (1) - Hotshot53
new guy1 (1) - virus90
Eldario (1) - Lootifer
No Lynch (1) - kgb007

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

DEADLINE HAS FALLEN!

A 24 hour run-off period has been initiated. The slate is wiped clean.

Rules
1. Only your first post counts
2. It must contain your vote
3. It may not contain anything else
4. The following, and only the following candidates are available: Benga, Eldario, kgb007, Nebuchadnezer, new guy1, NoSurvivors & no lynch.

Failure, to follow these rules may result in a variety of penalties, from no vote for the rest of the day to erm... well let's serious how the offences are.

I'm sorry nag, if you feel there weren't enough VC's, I felt I provided one most days.

[kgb007]

Really? We just went over how no lynch is an option when we actually have claims and information. We have none of that right now. No lynching today is absolutely terrible right now, and giving people the option makes it so we theoretically could get nothing from the day. I don't even think it would be a good read of who's mafia because I can see some town people voting it to avoid getting lynched because they have a power role or something. I read this as more jumpy scum behavior than anything.

unvote vote kgb

yes really, YOU may have went over "how no lynch is an option when we actually have claims and information" but that doesn't mean i have to agree with your reasoning

no lynching today is better than incorrectly lynching a townie, it's simple math, there are 3, maybe 4 scum buddies, the odds of lynching a townie based on a handful of posts is more likely then correctly hitting on scum for D1. no town member can say with 100% certainty that this person is or isn't town - only scum knows that - i'm not particularly convinced that any person with votes against them is scum (other than me being 100% town of course ), there could be scum with votes against them but arguing about who should and shouldn't be in the run off isn't going to convince me to vote for anyone based on weak D1 posts, i find D1 to be the least enjoyable part of the game as it devolves into twisting and interpreting (usually incorrectly) the motives behind each and every post so i like to shut up and observe while others carry the conversation where they please, any point or insight i would make is usually already introduced

and jumpy scum behavior? I hardly think that by giving us the option to vote no lynch, assuming we go through the run off exercise, qualifies as jumpy scum behavior but that's your opinion, my first impression from Saf's post is suspicious given that I know my role but i suppose you could be doing your townie duty by exerting pressure so i won't throw a reactionary vote out there

could we get an updated VC?