The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

[Gilligan]

What's happening with this map, I really like it and would like to play it ... it remembers me of Arcane Sanctuary in D2

Hopefully soon!

[Blakkrose]

Sorry for the long wait.
In recent weeks, the map server has been tested in beta and it seems that everything works fine.
If the guys in the foundry agree it is time to go Live!
Here are the updated files with the circle WG11 moved more to the left so that the troops are on a lighter background.

Here are all the files updated.
Map Image Large version (840x400):

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Map Image Small version (630x600):

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These are the 3 color blind tests

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This is the version with all the neutral troops in the territories (840x800)

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This is the 88 test - Large version (840x800)

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This is the 88 test - Small version (630x600)

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This is the 888 test - Large version (840x800)

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This is the 888 test - Small version (630x600)

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Click image to enlarge.

[bigWham]

I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.

[Blakkrose]

I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.

Thanks for the compliments!

Regarding the monsters consider them primarily as a line of defense.
They defend the crucial areas of the map.

1. the crystal zones useful to interfere with the opponents' play by the bombardment
2. key prerequisite for accessing the Temple of Jinn
3. Ghul indispensable to access Crystals
4. and finally Iblis who defends the only access to the area of the Temple of Jinn

If you prefer I can eliminate the bonuses for the control of the monsters so people will consider them only for their primary function: Defense

[bigWham]

I have been playing this map on Beta and I think it is fantastic. I do not have any functional issues with it, however the monsters, crystals and temple never really come into play. i think they are too expensive compared to their reward, when compared to the gems. i think this map would have even better game play if they were somewhat cheaper/easier to attain.

Thanks for the compliments!

Regarding the monsters consider them primarily as a line of defense.
They defend the crucial areas of the map.

1. the crystal zones useful to interfere with the opponents' play by the bombardment
2. key prerequisite for accessing the Temple of Jinn
3. Ghul indispensable to access Crystals
4. and finally Iblis who defends the only access to the area of the Temple of Jinn

If you prefer I can eliminate the bonuses for the control of the monsters so people will consider them only for their primary function: Defense

They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.

[Blakkrose]

They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.

Does anyone agree with bigWham?
I want my map to be played by many users. I want it to be fun and interesting strategically.
I'm trying to meet the wishes of users, and if you think it is appropriate to reduce monsters troops then I will.

[isaiah40]

They are defending things that no one will want because they are too expensive. The key to unlock the temple idea is very cool as well, but it is hard to see anyone doing that except in very rare circumstances. The map would be more fun, and more strategically challenging, if there were multiple strategic options that you had make choices between - right now I believe it is all about collecting gems, and then attacking your opponents directly.

Increasing the bonus value of them probably won't help because it would become suicide to go for them. Hence I think that reducing the neutrals on those terits is the way to go.

Does anyone agree with bigWham?
I want my map to be played by many users. I want it to be fun and interesting strategically.
I'm trying to meet the wishes of users, and if you think it is appropriate to reduce monsters troops then I will.

I say wait and find out what more of the community thinks once it is released into Beta on the live site.

[Blakkrose]

I say wait and find out what more of the community thinks once it is released into Beta on the live site.

I agree.
At this point I look forward to the map is Live to see what happens!
the next step is up to you ...

[Blakkrose]

Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?

[Gilligan]

Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?

tnb said that you were testing bigwham's post above, with lowering the cost of monsters.

[koontz1973]

Can anyone tell me why the map is not yet Live?

tnb said that you were testing bigwham's post above, with lowering the cost of monsters.

No need to test that. I can say now that the neutrals are near enough perfect now. Some settings and size of games will give them more play over others but that was taken into account when we looked at the map.

Lets get this into play please so we can see how it works for all settings and sizes, then we can fiddle with the neutrals if needed.

[thenobodies80]

Let me finish what i'm doing with blakkrose
There's no rush.

[thenobodies80]

After playing and discussing a bit with blakkrose, my personal suggestion, that's not a mandatory thing, is to:

- Consider a way to make the map more playable in 2 players game. Actually i think it shows the usual problem that the first player that grab an advantage with gems (because he starts first or because he is just more lucky with dice) can close the game in few turns without any way for the opponent to do something seriously to stop him. If this is not possible, well exclude games that have less than 4 players and are not polymorphic (not sure we can ).
- Monsters. even if i understand that neutrals are a way to stop a mass bombardment, i think they are too high. If you see we have about 20 neutrals plus decay just to bombard combined with a 5 neutrals ghul that moreover everyone will have on the list due its key role as condition to bombard.
- Again any bonus "Iblis + X monsters = Y" in which X>4 is pretty ridicolous. If you receive it you have already won the game, you don't need those troops. Specially considering how much work is required to have them for Y troops. It's easier to go for gems and obtain exactly the same number of troops but in the meanwhile kill the opponents more frequently than trying to unlock monsters. Maybe it can be a type of bonus that is worth in some extended games, but again, in that case i don't know how much 18 troops can make a difference apart for a really strange combo of game settings.

I would leave ibilis at 10 neutral troops, the 4 colored monsters at the corners changed to 3 or 4 neutrals. Finally ghul can be 3 neutral. alone it gives nothing, everyone need it to access to crystals and it has a 3 decay...it's not a problem if it is easier to take.

That's what i would do if it was my map. Said that it's not that it can't be played as it is now.
Nobodies

[dolomite13]

One way to combat the lucky rolls at the start might be to change all of the 1n territories to 2n as well. This should slow expansion down just a bit.

=D13=

[Blakkrose]

- Consider a way to make the map more playable in 2 players game. Actually i think it shows the usual problem that the first player that grab an advantage with gems (because he starts first or because he is just more lucky with dice) can close the game in few turns without any way for the opponent to do something seriously to stop him. If this is not possible, well exclude games that have less than 4 players and are not polymorphic (not sure we can ).

As you wrote, this is a problem that plagues many maps, so I do not think it is a priority to do something.

- Monsters. even if i understand that neutrals are a way to stop a mass bombardment, i think they are too high. If you see we have about 20 neutrals plus decay just to bombard combined with a 5 neutrals ghul that moreover everyone will have on the list due its key role as condition to bombard.
- Again any bonus "Iblis + X monsters = Y" in which X>4 is pretty ridicolous. If you receive it you have already won the game, you don't need those troops. Specially considering how much work is required to have them for Y troops. It's easier to go for gems and obtain exactly the same number of troops but in the meanwhile kill the opponents more frequently than trying to unlock monsters. Maybe it can be a type of bonus that is worth in some extended games, but again, in that case i don't know how much 18 troops can make a difference apart for a really strange combo of game settings.

I removed the condition to iblis to take bonuses for monsters.
Now for any combo of monsters, from 2 onwards, there's a bonus.

I would leave ibilis at 10 neutral troops, the 4 colored monsters at the corners changed to 3 or 4 neutrals. Finally ghul can be 3 neutral. alone it gives nothing, everyone need it to access to crystals and it has a 3 decay...it's not a problem if it is easier to take.

I touched up the troops of the monsters as follows:

• Iblis 5
• Dai 3
• Efreet 3
• Marid 3
• Djinn 3
• Ghul 3
• Acolyte 3

Here's the new graphics and XML file:
Map Image Large version (840x400):

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

Map Image Small version (630x600):

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

These are the 3 color blind tests

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

This is the version with all the neutral troops in the territories (840x800)

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

This is the 88 test - Large version (840x800)

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

This is the 88 test - Small version (630x600)

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

This is the 888 test - Large version (840x800)

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

This is the 888 test - Small version (630x600)

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

[Blakkrose]

Gentlemen, it is possible that the modifications have not yet been included on the beta server?
And when the map will be live?
It 'possible that from 19 July 2013, the map is not ready yet? It's been almost seven months!

Thenobodies80 What happened to you?

[thenobodies80]

I have some serious health issues that keeps me away from computers and any stressing activity. Please get in touch with gilligan till I'm fully back....I hope soon.

[MagnusGreeol]

- All CC related aside, Hope all will be good with You Thenobodies, Your dedication to Your duties can never be questioned, Salut and GL2U!

[iAmCaffeine]

This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

[Blakkrose]

This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!

[iAmCaffeine]

This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!

My only [slight] issue is that the monsters aren't defined in the legend, but it's simple enough to figure out.

[Gilligan]

• • • • Beta - Quenching

---The development period has concluded for the Temple of Jinn. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Admins or Foundry Foreman vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

• • • • • • 

While the map is in BETA Play, there are a couple of administrative tasks that are required of the mapmaker(s) in addition to the initial gameplay testing:

• 1. Please ensure that the first post of the thread contains all the necessary information to help future visitors to the development thread; it's particularly important to ensure the most recent images are there, along with any helpful guides (such as gameplay quirks/nuances or the location/size of any starting neutrals etc.)
  2. It is the responsibility of the mapmaker(s) to ensure that they respond to further feedback in a timely and constructive manner.
  3. Write a "creative" map description and send it to the Foundry Foreman via PM. You're encouraged to post it into the first post of the thread as well; the description will be used to populate the maps database.

Gilligan

[Blakkrose]

This is quite possibly the best looking map I've seen.

Thank you but I do not understand why it takes more than a year to send her Live!!!

My only [slight] issue is that the monsters aren't defined in the legend, but it's simple enough to figure out.

I do not understand i suggest you mean.
the legend is 100% complete including bonuses related to monsters.

[Gilligan]

I believe he is saying that it doesn't say "the 7 monsters are Djinn, Ghul..." etc etc. I don't think it's necessary.

[Gilligan]

Something else I noticed:

"Reinforcements
Only 3 ARMIES per turn"

not "3 army"