Battle for the Spice Islands

by **vaughn03** on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:44 pm

I just switched out the image - so all requested and suggested corrections have been made on the above map and map on page 1.

Thank you all - let's move this along if possible - heading for Indonesia next week...

by **cairnswk** on Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:45 pm

vaughn03 wrote:I said you were right - good call.

You don't have a 'cartography' designation..? I'll make your corrects - then I get The Gameplay Stamp or someone official has to give it to me..? Or..? And if I get it then..? Start coding? SOrry I may have read all this but it's been a long process...

vaughn...my sig gfx shows Q35 (quenched 35 maps - same with Beta 35) since 2007
this is a lot of experience and each map i learn new things all the time, although sometimes i reluctantly won't admit it :oops:

most of my advice i gave is standard things that should be followed in order to progress a map through to GFX, i.e. clear and legible text, kerning, positioning, and some design aspects that i know are very pertinent to helping you.
i am not an offical "blue" although have offered, but there are probably others better qualified and i don't always have the time or diplomacy
I volunteer/work when i can.
so for your gameplay stamp, that will have to come from iancanton or koontz once they have overlooked the gameplay...both provide exceptional insight into gameplay

so do have patience, the foundry is not as fast as it used to be becasue the quality is getting better and gameplay needs to be "balanced"
yes it is a long process, but then this can be good thing.
stick with it, you'll get there in the end

by **vaughn03** on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:02 pm

Sincerely thank you for all your help - I think it's a good looking map and much more so for everyone's input, still willing to make changes to make it look better as time consuming as it can sometimes be. I'm sure I will need likewise advice on gameplay. The process is the process, sometimes they are ready/available for map work and sometimes I am... I definitely want to play this some day and look forward to messing with the XML. Thanks again.

Lt. Vaughn03

by **koontz1973** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:46 am

vaughn, some things from me here.

Winning condition, can you add "any" to the Armada and Major Port please to show it is any that you can hold.
The troops part of the legend, you say that troops can only attack in their own coloured regions. Can you clarify this for me. Where is Burma and Malaka?
Sea passages 2 way attack you have three times. Remove any two. I see no need to explain the two way attacks three times as this is a normal way to attack in all games.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:59 am

Thank you Koontz I'll take care of that today. How's the smoking coming?

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:24 am

The troops part of the legend, you say that troops can only attack in their own coloured regions. Can you clarify this for me. Where is Burma and Malaka?

WHAT MY INTENTION IS, IS THAT THEY CAN ONLY ATTACK WITHIN THIER OWN CONTINENT OR BONUS REGION (COLOR) - HOW DO I SAY THAT? BURMA AND MALAKA ARE NORTHWEST CORNER OF MAP AND HAVE 'ATTACK DOTS' CONNECTING THEM. DO I NEED TO BE MORE EXPLICIT?

by **Aleena** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:02 pm

I think the connections are clear with out stating it in the Legend...

Since you stated it in the Legend- it draws attention to it more and makes people question that maybe the connections are not as clearly drawn as they really are...I suggest that just the part about the troops should be removed out of the Legend all together - it is not needed...

Just need to state the combat connections are based on touching borders and dotted paths... and even that is not needed for if someone could not figure that out then they need more help then any of us could ever write in a Legend...

or maybe all sea connections are by port to ship and/or by dotted path.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:07 pm

Brilliant.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:14 pm

Do you think I need this line in the Legend?

All sea connections are by Port to Fleet or by dotted path.

by **koontz1973** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:25 pm

The troops part of the legend, you say that troops can only attack in their own coloured regions. Can you clarify this for me. Where is Burma and Malaka?
WHAT MY INTENTION IS, IS THAT THEY CAN ONLY ATTACK WITHIN THIER OWN CONTINENT OR BONUS REGION (COLOR) - HOW DO I SAY THAT? BURMA AND MALAKA ARE NORTHWEST CORNER OF MAP AND HAVE 'ATTACK DOTS' CONNECTING THEM. DO I NEED TO BE MORE EXPLICIT?

So troops can attack inside their own land regions. This would be a normal attack so it does not need to be in the legend at all. What you have is a normal way of attacking and unless you have something special or not normal, their is no need to spell it out in the legend. So taking Burma as an example, you can attack China, Laos, Siam, Malaka and Bangkok. Am I correct in this as all these regions touch or border Burma. Is there another region Burma can attack that I have missed?

Can troops attack ships from the ports? Example is Siam to SF3.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:31 pm

Yeah - you both are right - I don't need to say it. I'm trying to make things more clear and I'm just confusing the issue. My bad. I'm pulling out other stuff as well...

Siam CAN NOT attack the Fleet as I currently envision it. You are CORRECT regarding Burma.

by **koontz1973** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:01 pm

OK then, with that bit of info, you can now look again at the legend and remove everything that would be classed as normal attack or repeated. This will then give you the room to expand on the winning condition and explain that ports cannot attack fleets. About the fleets, if you say they cannot be attacked from the land regions, what happens if you do not own any ships? You then become trapped on land with no way of winning the game. Think about the ports being able to attack fleets if all of the land area is held (conditional border). This will allow you to keep your idea about them not attacking to a point but allow a trapped player to move out if trapped on any piece of land.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:12 pm

OK - You're right, I'm sure.

Now with extra room I can improve aestetics of Legend as well but it's slowing me down again. Argh... To bad I can't get paid for this... lol.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:34 pm

How about:

'Fleets 1-way attack Lesser Ports.'

This would allow player back to sea but in a more limited way of only thru Major Ports.

Also are there any thoughts regarding initial deployment? To me it makes sense to have Spice Islands start neutral fostering the 'race' to the Spice Islands.

The idea of everyone starting from Fleets? If there were 8 players, one Fleet would remain neutral, IF 3 players each would start on 3 Fleets, etc... Anyone have any experience with something like this? Would it cause problems?

If above no good then I guess everything would just be random placement outside of Spice Islands and Sea Passages, I would think..? With neutrals being placed to keep numbers neutral..?

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:50 pm

NO - wait. I think my solution to that was that the ports CAN attack Sea Ports or SP8 for example...

That way it's like they can built some ships and get to sea but they are really no match for the European Fleets that dominated the area.

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:10 pm

by **cairnswk** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:29 pm

Vaugh03, i have to ask...
are the cities e.g. BATAVIA required to be held to be included in the LAND BONUS?

by **vaughn03** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:35 pm

I think so... But all that is subject to adjustment, no..? I'm all ears.

by **cairnswk** on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:44 pm

vaughn03 wrote:I think so... But all that is subject to adjustment, no..? I'm all ears.

If it is/is not required, it probably should be mentioned on the legend

by **koontz1973** on Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:13 am

vaughn, here are a couple of ideas to mull over.

Regarding the attacks from fleets, SP and minor and major ports.

Have all minor and major ports attack all sea regions. This includes all SP regions and fleets. This will allow the game to flow a lot better. If you try to restrict getting of the islands, you risk trapping players on land with choke points. But to attack land from a fleet, you must own an armada. Sort of like strength to attack a port is needed before it can be done.
Layout of regions I think you can leave now as it all seems to work.

Legend work to do.
Left hand side of the legend needs very little work. The four spices, give them a little colour to make them more recognizable to what you have on the board. The fleets and ports are large but the spices are small and people will need to look for them. This will give you the middle part for the winning condition and any funny attacks. But lets get the fleets/ports/SP regions sorted before you touch that part of the legend again.

by **vaughn03** on Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:14 pm

by **koontz1973** on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:33 am

A couple more from me and then I think you are getting pretty close to a green stamp.

Legend icons - these need to match what is on the board or players will not recognise them. Hence the reason I asked for the same colouring for the spices. O:)

Conditional border text - Ports can only attack Fleets and Sea Passages once a whole land bonus is held.
Legend move - Passage to spice island move to he middle. 3 fleets and the amarda + 1 spice, these two are bonuses so move to the left hand side. So you will have all bonuses on the left and all movement in the middle.
Add a sentence saying all bonuses accumulate.

by **vaughn03** on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:10 pm

by **Bruceswar** on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:13 pm

looking much much clearer.. Keep going. Not sure what is left for you but getting closer.

by **koontz1973** on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:20 am

One last thing I want to discuss is the spice islands. With each spice giving you +1, you will end up getting +6 for the whole islands. And this goes even higher with an Armada. You can get another +4, making a max of +10. This I think needs to be reduced a lot. What are your thoughts behind this?