Rank? Oh But Why? For Show Good Fellow!

Avron · Post by **Avron** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:51 pm

I have a inquiry to anyone willing to answer the question. I browse through these forums and call out games, organized games, etc. and the thing that stands out as the most appalling to me is these requirements of rank. I can understand when your using it to determine skill and if a player is active. Its very understandable, but in all reality the position of rank is as bad as judging a book by its cover. I can also understand that rank allows players to compete for who is the best, but thats just bad sportsmanship. Lording a rank over a newer player to the game is like you holding candy over a child's head because your taller, in essence no you can't join our game your not high enough rank. Ive got more input on this but id like to hear another side of the story so I hear what you think instead of just shooting my opinion from the mountaintop.

Captain Crash · Post by **Captain Crash** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:08 am

Rank is an indicator only of skill and experience. Note that word:
indicator.

Sometimes I'll want to play more, hopefully, experienced or better players so I'll enter games with players of higher ranks. Other times I don't care and so just enter games.

(If you look at my games, I think you'll find I play anyone in any form, except assassin and freestyle.)

Sometimes you want to stretch yourself and sometimes you want an easy win but mostly I want to have some fun, which is why I recently entered a freestyle game, and that will not necessarily come from playing low ranked players, nor from high ranked players.

This is another reason to get premium membership: Allows more games and hence more variety in one's gameplay.

Just one viewpoint, I'm sure there are many, many more.....

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:21 am

well, I understand your point, but ive played every rank, and like all, started with 1000 points...since then, ive played over 1400 games...and my favorite games are the colonels games

no real complaints in them, everyone plays fairly, no cheating, no negative feedback for frivolous stuff...just proven players that take the game seriously having fun with it, without much danger of drama or other negative things.

There are many great players that arent colonels...i myself am now a major, and I play many of them too.

But Im guessing the people that complain about what games others play, will probably be the same players that complain in the game about frivolous things...

I myself dont care what games you play, who you play with, what type of games you play, how you play them, etc. I play mine and have a blast...why do you care what others play? Or find them to be appaling?
Does it bother you that I try real hard to stay a colonel, so I can play in those games? Does it bother you that I like knowing when playing them, I have almost no fears of a negative game, or cheating? Does it bother you that I enjoy playing, and dont really love playing in games where I get can get a negative feedback from a guy whose played 10 games and has no idea how to play? Is it really surprising that I enjoy these games?

Any player that wants to be a colonel can play enough games, play them well enough, or find a partner who will show them how to gain points.

So I work hard to gain points, so I can play with others that play hard to gain points, and have fun doing it....is that really bad sportsmanship....personally, I think that is sportsmanship...

....Ive been a colonel and dropped back down multiple times....I can more or less play anyone in here if I ask, but I sure dont mind when someone who has 1500 more points than me, and stands to risk 50 points would rather play someone who he only risks 20 or so....I dont blame them at all....I dont know what your score is, but join a bunch of games with players with 300 to 600 points....if you lose one, you have to win ten....play those out, let me know how much fun it is...and then let me tell you i find it appaling that you start to play players with more points....

Thats the flipside....its overly dramatic on purpose, but thats what you were asking for...Many players misunderstand why many high ranked players like to play together, ...its not elitest...or arrogant...or meant to hold others back.....its that people play the games they have fun in...

Avron · Post by **Avron** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:10 am

In note to crash, I'm sorry but theres not a compelling argument for me to discuss with you you, and I hate to be High and Mighty, but you proved what I was trying to say, Rank does not show skill, what so ever, since I just singed up does that automatically make me bad? But that wouldn't allow you to know I've played a 3-6 hour game of risk every week for 5 years would it?

Now on the other hand I can really understand where you coming form with how you say you prefer to play in those games because you have fun in them, but yes it is being, elitist, as you put it. It would be along the same lines if I gave everyone a ranking in real life of games that I have played with and assumed that since this player had a low rank I wouldn't enjoy playing a game with him. If rank was non-extent you wouldn't care about a points value and would improve the overall enjoyment of the game, at least I think, because then your not so worried about playing in this game to win it or lose it, you could still keep track of the guys that have the most wins and thats recognizable as respectable. You would still have that circle of people with out alienating new people to the game. You would know who was very good and the kind of people you enjoyed the game most with just from playing as much as trying to get to that point level would award you with. That would also allow you to play with newer people to the community and perhaps help them, I would find it hard for someone really concerned about sportsmanship to not enjoy teaching someone really eager to play and get better with honest motive. Now I have to point out the biggest contradiction in your argument, your playing to have fun but you say your main goal is to earn points? I think in that lies your arrogance, that simple statement means thats why you wont play with newer players, you don't get the same amount of points. I highly doubt that if you got the same amount of points from every game that you would still only play with High Ranked people, oh and one last note no I'm not saying I care about what games other people play, I'm asking why people care so much about something as simple as a few numbers and letters, and yes I know the same goes in reverse as to why do I.

chewyman · Post by **chewyman** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:54 am

A lot of people get a kick out of competition, such as myself. It's my goal for example to become the first (I assume) general without a premium account. I'm not even a major yet, and probably won't be for quite some time, but striving is half the fun.

As for stopping new recruits from playing doubles game, I think this is perfectly fair. It's not a question of their skill, it's a question of their activity. Too many people sign up, join games and never turn up again. These deadbeats can easily ruin a game and that's why that rule is a good thing.

Dominicus01 · Post by **Dominicus01** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:40 am

i agree, the ranking system just allows you to see how active people are, if you get to a decent level, you haveto be checking your games regualy...

Its not a case of being harsh to lesser ranked players, but maybe somthing to help them strive foreward? I am only a '2 stripe' man, but see it as a challenge to get higher...

Thats what i think anyway!

Captain Crash · Post by **Captain Crash** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:41 am

Avron wrote:In note to crash, I'm sorry but theres not a compelling argument for me to discuss with you you, and I hate to be High and Mighty, but you proved what I was trying to say, Rank does not show skill, what so ever, since I just singed up does that automatically make me bad? But that wouldn't allow you to know I've played a 3-6 hour game of risk every week for 5 years would it?

Didn't know you were looking for an argument, but it seems that's what you wanted. Also I did not say rank does not show skill, I said rank is an indicator of skill and experience.
That game of risk you've played every week for the last 5 years...250 games or there abouts...same crowd/regulars or a different group of people every week? Did you put out a public notice inviting anyone who wants to play to come play? ('cos that's what you're doing here every time you start a public game!) If you only asked people you knew to come join you, then isn't that being elitist?
(BTW a significant portion of the people who join this site have played the board game, but here you can play more than 250 games in 3 months!)

How about if you had to play with new people every week? Who started and then left just after setting up, maybe rolled the dice once or twice and then left, cos they had something else on? And this happened on a regular basis? Would you have liked to have some indication that they would stick it out?

If they were new to the game would you be prepared to keep playing with them if they were not learning from their mistakes, i.e. kept making moves that ruined the game for all concerned, or continually blamed others for their lack of skill? (Or would you ask them to not play with your group anymore?)

Rank is an indication of skill and experience, and people will always want to play others with a certain experience/skill level (sometimes higher than their own, other times lower or similar), you call it elitist, I call it normal. The only indication we have on this site about who we are playing is their rank and their feedback. We don't know our opponents from any other manner (in public games). So it does not surprise me at all that there are many here who want to play others of a certain rank at some time.

ConquererKing · Post by **ConquererKing** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:25 am

I play mostly private games for a number of reasons:

1) I hate losing a game and dropping 40-50 points and if I win I gain about 60 points. So I need to win around 1 in 2 to gain points. Which leads me to my second point:

2) It's hard to win in public games sometimes when a new player who does not have much experience or strategy yet totally gives the game to another player and there's nothing you can do. Sometimes they have given it to me, sometimes to another player, but I don't find that fun. I'd rather play in games with players who have more experience and strategy so we can have a good game.

3) Deadbeats. From my experience a lot of new recruits deadbeat out and that's not fun. It's a lot less likely someone who's major will deadbeat, unless they have a problem at home and can't get to their computer in which case they will say.

That said, I still play a few public games (not right now because I'm not starting new ones for awhile - I have too many games going).

podge · Post by **podge** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:38 am

Personally I like the challenge of playing a game with players of equal skill, thats not to say that a new player with a question mark might not be as skillfull as say a captain but the thing is you have no way of knowing that.

Let's say you have the chance to buy a lottery ticket, one is a gaurenteed win the other maybe which one would you go for ??

I play the game for the challenge not the points and playing similar rank player gives me that challenge whereas playing a question mark is a lottery.

JOHNNYROCKET24 · Post by **JOHNNYROCKET24** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:57 am

I dint even know there were ranks. Thanks for the info.

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:13 am

Avron wrote:In note to crash, I'm sorry but theres not a compelling argument for me to discuss with you you, and I hate to be High and Mighty, but you proved what I was trying to say, Rank does not show skill, what so ever, since I just singed up does that automatically make me bad? But that wouldn't allow you to know I've played a 3-6 hour game of risk every week for 5 years would it?

Now on the other hand I can really understand where you coming form with how you say you prefer to play in those games because you have fun in them, but yes it is being, elitist, as you put it. It would be along the same lines if I gave everyone a ranking in real life of games that I have played with and assumed that since this player had a low rank I wouldn't enjoy playing a game with him. If rank was non-extent you wouldn't care about a points value and would improve the overall enjoyment of the game, at least I think, because then your not so worried about playing in this game to win it or lose it, you could still keep track of the guys that have the most wins and thats recognizable as respectable. You would still have that circle of people with out alienating new people to the game. You would know who was very good and the kind of people you enjoyed the game most with just from playing as much as trying to get to that point level would award you with. That would also allow you to play with newer people to the community and perhaps help them, I would find it hard for someone really concerned about sportsmanship to not enjoy teaching someone really eager to play and get better with honest motive. Now I have to point out the biggest contradiction in your argument, your playing to have fun but you say your main goal is to earn points? I think in that lies your arrogance, that simple statement means thats why you wont play with newer players, you don't get the same amount of points. I highly doubt that if you got the same amount of points from every game that you would still only play with High Ranked people, oh and one last note no I'm not saying I care about what games other people play, I'm asking why people care so much about something as simple as a few numbers and letters, and yes I know the same goes in reverse as to why do I.

Exactly, why do you care if people care about whats next to thier name? Why do people work hard to buy nice things? Why do some people paint their house red, and others white? Why do some want a Generals badge while others are content with a captain's status? Myself, I dont care about any of that. I play what I want when I want. While you are wasting your time complaining that people who have played thousands of games in here, played thousands of players, have worked hard to gain points and rank dont enjoy players that tend to complain in games, dont understand the subtleties, and in general arent as much fun to play. Im sure you can throw a football, but I doubt the Bears would enjoy a game against you and your friends. However, if you devote your life, and are talented and lucky, you can earn your right to play against the top players in any field...or sit back and complain about how you could do better...Im guessing the latter in this case...but complain and judge away...we are all very concerned about what you think of how we have fun in here. Im thinking of setting up some new games...what type should I play? Dont want to offend anyone.

btw...I occasionally have fun playing devils advocate too...none of this is personal. However, play 1000 games, and then let me know what games you like to play in. Also, you should check my games...I hardly limit myself to high ranked players. But sometimes I choose to.

joeyjordison · Post by **joeyjordison** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:46 am

depending on what sort of game i want i may only play captains and above as that shows that the person does have some skill and so should give a good game.

other times i will totally open to everyone. i'll just start a public game and anyone can join

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:55 am

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:I dint even know there were ranks. Thanks for the info.

youre a colonel...its that silly little hat next to your name....all the really good players are generals....they have little red stars next to theirs....youve seen it

Myself, im pulling a simtom, and dropping all my points....unfortunately for me, Im actually trying to win them

JOHNNYROCKET24 · Post by **JOHNNYROCKET24** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:00 am

AAFitz wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:I dint even know there were ranks. Thanks for the info.
youre a colonel...its that silly little hat next to your name....all the really good players are generals....they have little red stars next to theirs....youve seen it

Myself, im pulling a simtom, and dropping all my points....unfortunately for me, Im actually trying to win them

you need to team up with JR. he has a 66% wining ratio. if you cant win with him, than delete your account

detlef · Post by **detlef** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:41 am

Dude, are you serious here? There are a freaking metric ton of public games out there. Go join one!

I play open games and I join ranked games. It's my prerogative, thank you very much.

Here's the irony. You can find ranked players in open games but that's not good enough for you. You seem to want to be able to join games that have a bunch of highly ranked players and you (because you think you're as good a player as them). You want to play highly ranked players for the same reason that we do, because the games are better. But you're basically calling us elitists for wanting the same thing you do.

So here's an idea. Go f*ck yourself.

If your "strategy" to get higher ranked players to invite you to play against them is to piss and moan and call them elitist, I'm not so sure I'd be interested in seeing your "strategy" in how to win a game against skilled players. 'Cause being an a-hole typically doesn't get it done unless you've got some great dice on your side.

Wow, edited to add... You haven't even won a single game yet!?!? You're complaining that you're being excluded from ranked games, and you haven't won a single game?!?! Wow.

AAFitz · Post by **AAFitz** » Sun May 13, 2007 10:06 am

JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
JOHNNYROCKET24 wrote:I dint even know there were ranks. Thanks for the info.
youre a colonel...its that silly little hat next to your name....all the really good players are generals....they have little red stars next to theirs....youve seen it

Myself, im pulling a simtom, and dropping all my points....unfortunately for me, Im actually trying to win them
you need to team up with JR. he has a 66% wining ratio. if you cant win with him, than delete your account

lol

Avron · Post by **Avron** » Sun May 13, 2007 2:54 pm

Lol wow, I love how any online community turns out the most worthless replies, I greatly do appreciate crash(I understand now more, indicator just threw me off, so I apologize) and AAFitz inputs. But you really don't have to take it so harshly, I'm not saying that because I think its wrong your wrong and it should be banned and never spoken on again. I think of few of you have changed my mind though I can see the values of active players and the feedback system, thanks for the input that'll do.

detlef · Post by **detlef** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:46 pm

Avron wrote:Lol wow, I love how any online community turns out the most worthless replies, I greatly do appreciate crash(I understand now more, indicator just threw me off, so I apologize) and AAFitz inputs. But you really don't have to take it so harshly, I'm not saying that because I think its wrong your wrong and it should be banned and never spoken on again. I think of few of you have changed my mind though I can see the values of active players and the feedback system, thanks for the input that'll do.

Oh boo hoo, I guess my reply didn't make the cut.

I guess next time somebody brand new to the site comes in and insults those who use it, makes poorly informed sweeping statements, and claims that higher ranked players should assume they're a good match despite the fact that they have yet to win a game, then continues to insult even those who were kind enough to write thoughtful responses to his stupid question, I'll carefully and tactfully try to convince this person of a reality that they seem quite resistant to accept.

...Actually, sorry, not gonna happen.

Oh what the hell. How 'bout this:

1) Rank matters. It is not just a reflection of how many games you play. You need to win more often than the odds would dictate to move up. Plain and simple. It is obviously not an exact science but don't you think your implication is rather bold?

2) The fact that ranked games exist does not limit your playing options. There are plenty of games. Join them, learn from them, win them, make friends, get invited to join private games. That's how it was for each and every other person who joined this site.

3) Don't be an a-hole and then expect everyone to be nice to you.

Avron · Post by **Avron** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:07 pm

Well unfortunately I don't take rid and inconsiderate replies to a simple question in to mind, it was in no manner of mine to insult anyone but I sure as hell received quite a few back. Nor did most you even get the damn point, its a simple thought provoking question, theres no right or wrong answer but its interesting to how fired up and angry you get over it. I just wanted a discussion of it and to see it from others point of views, that why I asked but why do you have to get so defensive? I'm calling inferiority complex. Oh but thats not nice because I don't know you now is it? Don't insult before you understand, stay out of discussions if you can't keep it away from being rude and insulting. If I insulted anyone, like I sad, I apologize I just wanted a discussion of view points, whoops barley got that.

detlef · Post by **detlef** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:23 pm

Avron wrote:it was in no manner of mine to insult anyone but I sure as hell received quite a few back.

You don't find this as an insulting way to start your "thought provoking" thread...

"the thing that stands out as the most appalling to me is these requirements of rank...

...thats just bad sportsmanship. Lording a rank over a newer player to the game is like you holding candy over a child's head because your taller, in essence no you can't join our game your not high enough rank."

Frankly, it doesn't really surprise me. I was bored so I decided to check out the chat in a few of your games. It appears I'm not the only person that you have issues with...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=426702

13:14:32 - Game has been initialized
13:26:51 - Avron: GO GUYS DONT JOIN A FREESTYLE GAME AND NOT PLAY

Wow! 12 whole minutes?!?!

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=425075

20:45:36 - Avron: Dude are you kidding go dont hold up the game
20:48:18 - Avron: Wow I hate you
20:53:07 - Avron: Theres hate and then theres the hate that i have for you
21:06:06 - Avron: You join a fast moving freestyle game then dont play, I hope you having a wonderful day and then you fall down a mountain and get attacked by a goat and then when your like omfg im alive a plane crashes into you
01:09:39 - Avron: Congrats you took a decade now everyone stopped playing
01:45:00 - Avron: F*ck dude just end it at least so I can play a better game come on
01:45:45 - Avron: Wow omfg you know you could have ended it your such a douche
01:46:21 - Avron: Wow holy sh!t f*ck you now I have to wait all fucking day for this turn to be over and you to kill me, f*ck off

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=408556

11:43:48 - Avron: This f*cking game sux
14:47:22 - TheChad40: Poor little guy, can't handle losing without whining about it
22:03:27 - Avron: Wow your a bitch dude I was jokeing holy sh!t
18:44:58 - TheChad40: wow I was only joking Avron no need to take it so personally
19:56:33 - Avron: No lol dude you where not jokeing and when I called you on it look and behold someone acts like a little bitch with out even apolgizing
17:46:08 - TheChad40: we'll see who's the little bitch shut up and play the game
17:12:20 - Avron: Omfg F*ck you I hate you
21:03:17 - Avron: Hey can someone please kill me so I can join a new game please

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=408521

Avron: You all take so long to take your turns this is ridiculous

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=408038

18:35:09 - Avron: Imbored dude damn its because of you this game is going so damn slow
19:24:22 - imbored531: Sorry, but I dont think so. I was checking like every hour before. It may be a bit slower on the week though.
15:37:54 - Avron: No dude its you, we get stuck on you for like 12 hours every fucking time come on man pleaseeee keep up
17:09:21 - Avron: Once agian where wating on you
14:16:47 - Avron: Wow dude omfg
17:32:08 - Avron: F*ck You
21:20:36 - imbored531: Haha, it's always funny when people freak out over a game. Chill. I think I'll take my time, and take my turn when I want to.
14:57:21 - imbored531: And it looks like we're all waiting on you, at the moment.....

Avron · Post by **Avron** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:37 pm

Thats what you get for leaving in a game open on a public computer at a school don't you, plus I apologized so, even though it wasn't me. If you take a look at the other half of the games you'll notice a very different style of conversation. Oh yea forgot to reply to crash, Yea like every week we always have new people. We play at a public school allot and theres always new people wanting to play. Yea some people are the same but not always. Well anyway I'm done, enjoyed the somewhat discussion, until next time.

detlef · Post by **detlef** » Wed May 16, 2007 7:44 am

Thought this would be a good time to bring this up.

My dear friend, perhaps this is a good example why ranked players like to play in ranked games. Just after our argument, I entered this public game...

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=430552

Note there are two players with "?" ranks.

One of them basically went suicidal on his first turn in an ill-advised attempt to get a card when his first attack went south and now appears to have quit because he missed his second turn.

The other hasn't even bothered to take a turn at all.

Perhaps they'll start playing. However, the game is nearly 3 days old and I'm the only player to have two turns. Rather annoying indeed.

This is not atypical. Certainly not every "?" behaves this way but it is hardly being "elitist" to elect to enter games where this is much less likely to happen.

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:06 am

Avron wrote:20:45:36 - Avron: Dude are you kidding go dont hold up the game
20:48:18 - Avron: Wow I hate you
20:53:07 - Avron: Theres hate and then theres the hate that i have for you
21:06:06 - Avron: You join a fast moving freestyle game then dont play, I hope you having a wonderful day and then you fall down a mountain and get attacked by a goat and then when your like omfg im alive a plane crashes into you

Oh man, I laughed so hard at that, that my face hurts. Comic, fucking, genius Av-man!

detlef · Post by **detlef** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:44 am

Dancing Mustard wrote:
Avron wrote:20:45:36 - Avron: Dude are you kidding go dont hold up the game
20:48:18 - Avron: Wow I hate you
20:53:07 - Avron: Theres hate and then theres the hate that i have for you
21:06:06 - Avron: You join a fast moving freestyle game then dont play, I hope you having a wonderful day and then you fall down a mountain and get attacked by a goat and then when your like omfg im alive a plane crashes into you
Oh man, I laughed so hard at that, that my face hurts. Comic, fucking, genius Av-man!

Wow, easily amused?

Dancing Mustard · Post by **Dancing Mustard** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:47 am

Oh pull that stick out of your ass before you do yourself an injury you sanctimonious prick.

It was a funny comment. I laughed. I'm sorry you take your score so seriously; but I for one couldn't give a crap. Avron said something funny in a game log, and I acknowledged it.

Now f*ck off and try to smile