Themeless twisted mafia Day 2. No deaths, 13/14 alive.

[edocsil]

unvote, vote Neb for blindly bandwagonning.

I would argue that my vote was farthest from being blind. I stated my reason, and even stated where the vote count stood. Please explain what "blindly bandwagoning" means here...because your vote seems to be more of a "blind bandwagoning" vote than mine was.

I felt from reading your post, you saw Doom was at L-4, your vote would make it L-3, jump on the BW and force a claim. That is my perception, of how I read your post.

More or less. Random claims are a no no. Yes you justified the lynch, it's just that the justification wasn't very good..

[Iron Butterfly]

Yet your justification for voting was a simple yeah. You saw something you thought important yet did not explain.

[Metsfanmax]

Yet your justification for voting was a simple yeah. You saw something you thought important yet did not explain.

Precisely. When I saw neb's post, my inclination was the same. But I realized that voting him would be making the same mistake I thought he was making. It's all part of the D1 fuzzy logic. We cannot really blame someone for pushing for a random D1 claim; though some may disagree with that methodology, is it not uncommon.

[edocsil]

Yet your justification for voting was a simple yeah. You saw something you thought important yet did not explain.

It did not need to be explained. What he said was so fundamentally wrong it should be immediately obvious to any half-assed player. Are you saying that disagree with the obvious illegitimacy of his vote?

[thechuck51]

looks like the joke vote stage is over, eh? Neb, is there a reason you wanted to end it so quick?

unvote vote neb

[spiesr]

looks like the joke vote stage is over, eh? Neb, is there a reason you wanted to end it so quick?

In a game with deadlines isn't it best not to waste much in that stage?

[DoomYoshi]

Absolutely. Which is the reason the vote is so strong on neb now. He's by no means a newb, this can't be the first time he's heard blind bandwagon before. I will do a thorough forum search tomorrow and vote if he has indeed heard the term used correctly in context before, which would mean he is feigning innocence.

[aage]

looks like the joke vote stage is over, eh? Neb, is there a reason you wanted to end it so quick?

In a game with deadlines isn't it best not to waste much in that stage?

Yes. That's why I tried to end it. Successfully, I might add.

I think that hearing something from Neb now would help. I'm quite okay with pushing him for a claim, especially since him being scum decreases the likelihood of Doom being scum dramatically.

[aage]

Absolutely. Which is the reason the vote is so strong on neb now. He's by no means a newb, this can't be the first time he's heard blind bandwagon before. I will do a thorough forum search tomorrow and vote if he has indeed heard the term used correctly in context before, which would mean he is feigning innocence.

Even if he hasn't heard the term before he should know that it's a scum move. The amount of experience he has should be irrelevant.

[Iron Butterfly]

Yet your justification for voting was a simple yeah. You saw something you thought important yet did not explain.

It did not need to be explained. What he said was so fundamentally wrong it should be immediately obvious to any half-assed player. Are you saying that disagree with the obvious illegitimacy of his vote?

Actually it does. You are assuming everyone has your intellect, which seems to excuse you from doing what lesser mortals are expected to do. What he said may be fundamentally wrong but it is also your job as a player to explain why.

In a court of law the prosecution must state their case in order to convict the most obvious of killers. Even if it is believed by everyone involved they still need to present a bare minimum explanation of why the evidence dictates guilt. A simple "yeah" does not cut it.

[Nebuchadnezer]

I'm not sure what you want me to say.

1. The day will not advance until we get a claim.
2. It's Day 1...there isn't anything to go on.
3. I picked the guy closest to L-2, so that we can get a claim and evaluate it.

In a game where we have no information on Day 1, I fail to see why voting someone with the most votes is scummy play. Should I have sat back and waited for someone else to stick their neck out there? Sure. I could have. It's a lot easier to point out someone else's flaws rather than take a stance and put your own neck out there, right Edoc? It's not like I'm speed lynching Doom. If you would all prefer to joke vote for 32 days, fine, continue on. I on the other hand would like the game to advance.

So one way or another, let's get this moving...

[DoomYoshi]

So I should be forced to claim just because there was a joke wagon on me?

[edocsil]

Yet your justification for voting was a simple yeah. You saw something you thought important yet did not explain.

It did not need to be explained. What he said was so fundamentally wrong it should be immediately obvious to any half-assed player. Are you saying that disagree with the obvious illegitimacy of his vote?

Actually it does. You are assuming everyone has your intellect, which seems to excuse you from doing what lesser mortals are expected to do. What he said may be fundamentally wrong but it is also your job as a player to explain why.

In a court of law the prosecution must state their case in order to convict the most obvious of killers. Even if it is believed by everyone involved they still need to present a bare minimum explanation of why the evidence dictates guilt. A simple "yeah" does not cut it.

This is a lynch mob, not a courtroom. For complex cases you are correct, but for advocating a lynch simply because people have joke votes on them... You also dodge the question, do you disagree with the obvious illegitimacy of his vote?

Also, this is a themeless game. This will be very challenging for bad players because we won't just be handed shit with the scenes. It's going to take a level of play (hopefully) that isn't always seen in our regular games. We WILL have to look at vote patterns, careless missteps, and other very minute tells rather than relying on flavor so heavily. Apathy towards the actual targets of the lynch is one.

1. The day will not advance until we get a claim.

Correct, but random is the wrong way to do it. People have already been dropping tells like mad.

2. It's Day 1...there isn't anything to go on.

See above, and also my stuff directed to IB. This game will rely very heavily on vote analysis, and who protects who with their votes.

3. I picked the guy closest to L-2, so that we can get a claim and evaluate it.

He claims bulletproof, doc, cop, VT, busdriver, JOAT, lover, Governor, the list goes on and on. Now what? Do we hang him? There is no basis for the case, no reason to lynch, no nothing. Claims do not help the town, confirmed townies do, and a random-ass D1 claim won't prove anything, and could even lead to the cop being outed if the scum are actually found and even remotely clever. Claims just tell the scum how to counter the town.

[DoomYoshi]

This is from Matrix Mafia Day III, where Neb was accused of the exact same thing.

Another poor case tbh, I find it ironic that on one hand people are blindly following edoc and on the other criticising his playing style.

Well, his insistence on Some7hing CLEVER being town is what got me off of CLEVER. I voted with him as a mock, because that would seem to be the only way to keep him happy, is if everyone just followed him. I was surprised at how many just piled on after me.

But I'll back off...because, I think Mouse is a better claim than Kid. I admit I have no idea where to go from here. I'm sure this will get more interesting in a few game days, but this blind wandering has left me chasing the wind with no real purpose.

unvote

Which is hilarious, because in this game, the Blind BW got a claim, and then Neb admitted to having no idea what to do next. So he knows first hand why blind BWs don't work.

Claimtime neb.

[aage]

I'm not sure what you want me to say.

1. The day will not advance until we get a claim.
2. It's Day 1...there isn't anything to go on.
3. I picked the guy closest to L-2, so that we can get a claim and evaluate it.

In a game where we have no information on Day 1, I fail to see why voting someone with the most votes is scummy play. Should I have sat back and waited for someone else to stick their neck out there? Sure. I could have. It's a lot easier to point out someone else's flaws rather than take a stance and put your own neck out there, right Edoc? It's not like I'm speed lynching Doom. If you would all prefer to joke vote for 32 days, fine, continue on. I on the other hand would like the game to advance.

So one way or another, let's get this moving...

Oh boy.


You should be lynched for the sole reason of not getting the point of lynching.

The game isn't about getting as many claims as possible, the game is about catching scum. You seem to put Doom's votecount above your own thoughts, which is pretty much the worst thing a town player can do.

unvote, vote neb.

[aage]

I'm not sure what you want me to say.

1. The day will not advance until we get a claim.
2. It's Day 1...there isn't anything to go on.
3. I picked the guy closest to L-2, so that we can get a claim and evaluate it.

In a game where we have no information on Day 1, I fail to see why voting someone with the most votes is scummy play. Should I have sat back and waited for someone else to stick their neck out there? Sure. I could have. It's a lot easier to point out someone else's flaws rather than take a stance and put your own neck out there, right Edoc? It's not like I'm speed lynching Doom. If you would all prefer to joke vote for 32 days, fine, continue on. I on the other hand would like the game to advance.

So one way or another, let's get this moving...

Oh boy.


You should be lynched for the sole reason of not getting the point of lynching.

The game isn't about getting as many claims as possible, the game is about catching scum. You seem to put Doom's votecount above your own thoughts, which is pretty much the worst thing a town player can do. .

This can pretty much be added to Edoc's speech about theme games. He is right, by the way, as is often the case.

[Metsfanmax]

Notice that neb's post didn't actually lead to a lynch, but it did lead to discussion that was more fruitful than the joke voting. He may be wrong in insisting that the only value is to force a claim, but someone has to get around L-2 before anything of substance can happen on D1, even if that person doesn't end up claiming.

[gregwolf121]

okay by my count neb has 4 votes now, and i would have to agree that neb should now better than to band wagon like that, so lets here a claim neb, and to further that cause,unvote, vote neb

[aage]

Notice that neb's post didn't actually lead to a lynch, but it did lead to discussion that was more fruitful than the joke voting. He may be wrong in insisting that the only value is to force a claim, but someone has to get around L-2 before anything of substance can happen on D1, even if that person doesn't end up claiming.

The irony is that we are wagoning on him now because he wagoned on Doom. That does not make the case against him illegitimate. Although Gregwolf's vote does seem very much alike Neb's vote, the only "case"-y thing about Doom's "wagon" was my post, the other two votes on him were joke votes (which I honestly had disregarded because I don't care much for the infamous 'joke vote stage'), while the people voting for Neb are genuinely voting to lynch Neb.

[DoomYoshi]

Don't worry max, I know all about sticking out your neck on day 1 to get stuff started. That has been duly noted. I will still vote him, based on claim.

[safariguy5]

UNVOTE
VOTE jonty125 for blindly bandwagoning on a blindly bandwagoneer

This vote's timing strikes me as a bit odd. Whether or not jonty was serious about his vote, I feel like this could be a case of scumbuddies trying to keep themselves from looking too much like they're working together. Certainly I may be grasping at straws here, but I think this is something worth at least noting for later.

unvote vote superkeener

[freezie]

VOTE COUNT

superkeener(1): Safari
Doomyoshi(3): doomyoshi, Mets, Neb
Iron Butterfly(1): Spiesr
Spiers(1): Iron butterfly
Jonty(1): Superkeener
-3 Nebuchadnezer(5): Edocsil, Jonty, Thechuck, aage, Gregwolf

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

6 days before deadline.

[jonty125]

This vote's timing strikes me as a bit odd. Whether or not jonty was serious about his vote,

I am serious about my vote.

[Iron Butterfly]

UNVOTE
VOTE jonty125 for blindly bandwagoning on a blindly bandwagoneer

This vote's timing strikes me as a bit odd. Whether or not jonty was serious about his vote, I feel like this could be a case of scumbuddies trying to keep themselves from looking too much like they're working together. Certainly I may be grasping at straws here, but I think this is something worth at least noting for later.

unvote vote superkeener

With the votes divided between Doom and Neb you feel voting superkeener more pressing that a FOS would not take care of? You state you are grasping at straws here so why not keep the focus on the issues at hand? I am not questioning why you voted him but if you want to focus on him later why vote him now?

Vote Neb

I believe that puts him at L2. This is not a band wagon vote. After reading the game over several times I will agree that voting someone to claim that has a joke vote bandwagon on them is dumb. The question for me is, was it an innocent mistake from someone Town or scum trying to be sly? Something we wont know till after the fact.

[Nebuchadnezer]

Lol...once again I've gotten myself into a pickle.

I'm a vanilla townie. Check the matrix game. I did the same stupid thing. I guess I haven't figured out how to play as vt...or maybe this is best for town as you can lynch me, not lose much, get information and protect your power roles. Either way, I'm good with it.