F400 Clan Ranking - Needs Repair

[jj3044]

Based on the comments people in the clans are making in the thread...it doesn't look like its real. They should have just brought you in on it....thats not cool to make you do extra work.

Lol, everything below the OP was just for show to make it look like an April Fool's joke. Don't worry, IP didn't waste his time. However, the "official" merger probably won't happen for a little while as there are some logistics to work out... so it might have been best had you left us for one more update anyway. A moot point I suppose, since the win over The Fallen will still count...

Yes I am counting my chickens before they hatch... that challenge is actually pretty damn close!

[IcePack]

Based on the comments people in the clans are making in the thread...it doesn't look like its real. They should have just brought you in on it....thats not cool to make you do extra work.

Lol, everything below the OP was just for show to make it look like an April Fool's joke. Don't worry, IP didn't waste his time. However, the "official" merger probably won't happen for a little while as there are some logistics to work out... so it might have been best had you left us for one more update anyway. A moot point I suppose, since the win over The Fallen will still count...

Yes I am counting my chickens before they hatch... that challenge is actually pretty damn close!

I can put you back on the chart for a small donation of premium lol

[silversun6]

well thank you AOC and EMPIRE , we are finally in the top 10 , no need to wait until the ID war is over.
so after we win the ID war we might be #7th?!?

now if pack and tofu will merge we will be #5 ?

[Chariot of Fire]

We're merging with Kort. Screw you all!

[Emmdizzle]

Okay we'll merge with the Pack then:-P

[friendly1]

Nobody ever wants to merge with monkeys

[Bruceswar]

Nobody ever wants to merge with monkeys

Contact me with the details! KORT is looking for a merger!

[John Deere]

Okay we'll merge with the Pack then:-P

We talked about this being a secret......

[Crazyirishman]

I want a merger too.

I dream that one day we can all just merge into one big happy clan and gather round the campfire and sing kumbaya, and everything will be right in the CC world.

[Gilligan]

Drop yer buffs!! We are merging!

[Keefie]

......

[Armandolas]

and here was I thinking this system was infallible, but if a 10-2 victory actually costs points.....well, that's a little bit nuts (an 83.3% win rate).

You're talking a gigantic difference in clan points. I would recommend if clan rank is your top priority, not enter into a random competition with many extremely low ranked clans when you are the #2 clan. It will end up costing you points in the end.

The algo takes a expected win rate into account for points, so for your two clans meeting it expected a better showing from TOFU for MB being ranked soo drastically lower than you. They literally are dead last. It didn't cost you many points, but it did.

Not the best comparison, but to compare to a more common occurrence. If you care about rank as a general, dont play 12 games with a cook and lose 2. Even though you won the set, you'll probably end up losing points.

Hello
A win, should never be awarded with negative points. A win will allways be a win, regardless of the ranking difference.
Like you said, it just takes motivation for top clans to play smaller clans.
Why should TOFU not play in an interesting league just to avoid loosing points, just because lower clans are participating? I mean, whats the point on that?
Basically its the same if the CC conqueror plays against a a really low on points cook.Will he/she loose any points?It does not make sense at all.
That part of the system should be reviewed
Cheers

[IcePack]

and here was I thinking this system was infallible, but if a 10-2 victory actually costs points.....well, that's a little bit nuts (an 83.3% win rate).

You're talking a gigantic difference in clan points. I would recommend if clan rank is your top priority, not enter into a random competition with many extremely low ranked clans when you are the #2 clan. It will end up costing you points in the end.

The algo takes a expected win rate into account for points, so for your two clans meeting it expected a better showing from TOFU for MB being ranked soo drastically lower than you. They literally are dead last. It didn't cost you many points, but it did.

Not the best comparison, but to compare to a more common occurrence. If you care about rank as a general, dont play 12 games with a cook and lose 2. Even though you won the set, you'll probably end up losing points.

Hello
A win, should never be awarded with negative points. A win will allways be a win, regardless of the ranking difference.
Like you said, it just takes motivation for top clans to play smaller clans.
Why should TOFU not play in an interesting league just to avoid loosing points, just because lower clans are participating? I mean, whats the point on that?
Basically its the same if the CC conqueror plays against a a really low on points cook.Will he/she loose any points?It does not make sense at all.
That part of the system should be reviewed
Cheers

Hey
This happens extremely rarely, only when there is a very very large difference in clan points.
It also is only a very small amount of points.

Think of it this way - The nuclear example:
TOFU plays MB in a 41 game war. They win, 21-20. That's #2 clan beating #42 by only 1 point. You think they still show the same ability of play that represents a #2 rank clan when they barely beat the bottom rank? Even if you do, does the average everyday person? No. TOFU will drop in performance after that result. Their clan win history 10-1 or whatever shows how many wins they get. This isn't meant as an accurate measure of the clans wins. It's an accurate measurement of clan ability to produce results comparatively with clans of various rank and game size.

Like I said, this occurs very rarely. Another variable that didn't help was its a small game batch and random.

[patrickaa317]

and here was I thinking this system was infallible, but if a 10-2 victory actually costs points.....well, that's a little bit nuts (an 83.3% win rate).

You're talking a gigantic difference in clan points. I would recommend if clan rank is your top priority, not enter into a random competition with many extremely low ranked clans when you are the #2 clan. It will end up costing you points in the end.

The algo takes a expected win rate into account for points, so for your two clans meeting it expected a better showing from TOFU for MB being ranked soo drastically lower than you. They literally are dead last. It didn't cost you many points, but it did.

Not the best comparison, but to compare to a more common occurrence. If you care about rank as a general, dont play 12 games with a cook and lose 2. Even though you won the set, you'll probably end up losing points.

Hello
A win, should never be awarded with negative points. A win will allways be a win, regardless of the ranking difference.
Like you said, it just takes motivation for top clans to play smaller clans.
Why should TOFU not play in an interesting league just to avoid loosing points, just because lower clans are participating? I mean, whats the point on that?
Basically its the same if the CC conqueror plays against a a really low on points cook.Will he/she loose any points?It does not make sense at all.
That part of the system should be reviewed
Cheers

Hey
This happens extremely rarely, only when there is a very very large difference in clan points.
It also is only a very small amount of points.

Think of it this way - The nuclear example:
TOFU plays MB in a 41 game war. They win, 21-20. That's #2 clan beating #42 by only 1 point. You think they still show the same ability of play that represents a #2 rank clan when they barely beat the bottom rank? Even if you do, does the average everyday person? No. TOFU will drop in performance after that result. Their clan win history 10-1 or whatever shows how many wins they get. This isn't meant as an accurate measure of the clans wins. It's an accurate measurement of clan ability to produce results comparatively with clans of various rank and game size.

Like I said, this occurs very rarely. Another variable that didn't help was its a small game batch and random.

I agree with IcePack on this. The F400 is great because it is performance driven, not just win based. If you start focusing on wins/losses more than how big of a win or a loss, and against what type of competition; then the system starts to lose the value that it has.

[benga]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

[josko.ri]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

It is really not like this. Look at CL5 group phase, many results between low and top clans ends 7-1 or 6-2 for top clans, which is border line result between top clan gain and lose points.

So winning with so big margin when opponents' rank difference is so high is something normal to expect and something which often happens, it is not science fiction. If ones are not able to do on the way how it is in average expected by ranking system, it means they are over ranked so normally that their rank will be decreased.

[benga]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

It is really not like this. Look at CL5 group phase, many results between low and top clans ends 7-1 or 6-2 for top clans, which is border line result between top clan gain and lose points.

So winning with so big margin when opponents' rank difference is so high is something normal to expect and something which often happens, it is not science fiction. If ones are not able to do on the way how it is in average expected by ranking system, it means they are over ranked so normally that their rank will be decreased.

That's true, but where is there then incentive for bigs to play little ones.

Main clan events won't suffer from this, but others might.

This really limits playing for fun, when you are on constant caution to play for points.

[josko.ri]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

It is really not like this. Look at CL5 group phase, many results between low and top clans ends 7-1 or 6-2 for top clans, which is border line result between top clan gain and lose points.

So winning with so big margin when opponents' rank difference is so high is something normal to expect and something which often happens, it is not science fiction. If ones are not able to do on the way how it is in average expected by ranking system, it means they are over ranked so normally that their rank will be decreased.

That's true, but where is there then incentive for bigs to play little ones.

Main clan events won't suffer from this, but others might.

This really limits playing for fun, when you are on constant caution to play for points.

I do not think it limits playing for fun, it is actually totally opposite.
For example, I am actually playing CL5 vs lower clans for fun, and top challenges for points/wins. That can be checked by home maps which I choose, vs lower clans not so strong map/settings (playing for fun), and vs top clans the best maps settings like hive and unlimited (playing for win by showing my the best performance).

If in 50% cases top clan achieve point gaining vs lower clan (results like 7-1 in CL5 or 35-5 TOFU vs SOH CC3) then it is something very normal to expect. If you cannot be in upper 50% clans who can do it, well then your points goes down. Why is it always expected that points of top clan vs lower clan HAVE TO go up? if they put performance lower than it was average expected then of course their points wil go down, and points of the ones who are able to win 7-1 or higher will go up. That is very normal score system for given huge difference in opponents' strength.

[benga]

You are totally missing the point and once again you are glorify yourself.

Where is the incentive for TOFU to join RL again?
It actually forces them to only be part of CC4 and CL, then to 'waste' more time on other clan events.

[josko.ri]

You are totally missing the point and once again you are glorify yourself.

Where is the incentive for TOFU to join RL again?
It actually forces them to only be part of CC4 and CL, then to 'waste' more time on other clan events.

in CC4 they play like 2 matches vs lower clans and 3 matches vs top clans.

Look for example Round of 32 of CC3 when top clans played vs lower clans 41 game matches. How are (ranking wise) 41 game matches in first round of CC3 different than 3,5 times 12 game match vs lower clans in RL3? and other clans in RL3 are anyway mostly mid clans, not lower ones.

[Dako]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

I think you should hold a vote on that :D.

[josko.ri]

F400 as it is now favors elitism, will take that in consideration next time I organize clan event.

Probably will have to put some point limit for entrance, cause in my opinion win has to give you points.

I think you should hold a vote on that .

Yeah, and did not you voted for option 1 in CC4 which also favors elitism and losing points for big margin wins (it would happen matches 1v32 2v31 etc) and now you say opinion that some point limit to enter a competition should be set up in order to not penalize top clans ranking by playing vs lower clans? To me it seems very inconsistent opinion, in voting you support that to happen and here you suggest making tournament set up which would not allow that.

There were option 3 in the voting which would eliminate situations which you consider like problem here, that top clans wins vs lower clans and still lose points. In format 3, IF there would happen that top clan even play vs lower clan (very unlikely to happen), it would be vs lower clan who is right now in 2 wins in a row series, so their rank will for sure not be anymore in very bottom of the table. Problem solved! But not everyone is able to read between the lines.

[Dako]

Yes, josko, you are right. How could I not see that myself? Man, I've lived a wrong life.

[josko.ri]

Yes, josko, you are right. How could I not see that myself? Man, I've lived a wrong life.

I am glad you are able to realize it, many humans live the whole life in their own fallacy

[silversun6]

Josko is the Chuck Norris of the forums