CCup 4 format discussion (ver 5, p. 28)

[Bruceswar]

I would point out that tournament organizers - in the tournament part of CC - can't make up any rules they want for their individual tournaments.

There are guidelines in place there regarding even the most minute of details. So, having general guidelines in the Clan World should not be viewed as odd, at least not for Conquer Club.

Very generally - yes. Tournaments can't go over a year, min number of participants, etc.
But those tournaments are given huge leeway and ability to modify things according to their own TO goals and allow for rules and settings as they see fit.

There are no votes for majority opinion from participants to create / modify the rules of the TO for example.

And that is why we clans are not tournaments. We are different. We vote on things, we talk it out, and we come to reasonable decisions. What Angola was getting at is that at some point there has some be some rules or else it will be total chaos here.

[IcePack]

I would point out that tournament organizers - in the tournament part of CC - can't make up any rules they want for their individual tournaments.

There are guidelines in place there regarding even the most minute of details. So, having general guidelines in the Clan World should not be viewed as odd, at least not for Conquer Club.

Very generally - yes. Tournaments can't go over a year, min number of participants, etc.
But those tournaments are given huge leeway and ability to modify things according to their own TO goals and allow for rules and settings as they see fit.

There are no votes for majority opinion from participants to create / modify the rules of the TO for example.

And that is why we clans are not tournaments. We are different. We vote on things, we talk it out, and we come to reasonable decisions. What Angola was getting at is that at some point there has some be some rules or else it will be total chaos here.

CC 1-3 had rules, and worked well. Did it not? Well enough to be called one of CC clan area top events, and make nearly every clan want to participate anyway.

[josko.ri]

Oh I'm sorry - so CL5 didn't create pots and then RANDOMLY DRAW qualification groups?

Oh wait.... - yes they did.

If this is your logic, then I can say use the same logic and say that CC3 also used random draw.

In CC3 it was created 32 pots with 1 clan in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen pots on the way that weight of every pair is equal=33 (1v32, 2v31...)

In CL5 it was created 6 pots with 6 clans in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen 1 clan from each pot on the way that weight of every group is equal 6+5+4+3+2+1=21.

So if CL5 is random, CC3 was also random, just number of clan in each pot was different (6 comparing to 1). So you see, your logic sucks. Random draw is when all 32 clans are placed together, and every clan has chance to play vs every other clan. That was not case in CL5. Clans from the same pots could not play vs each other.

[IcePack]

Oh I'm sorry - so CL5 didn't create pots and then RANDOMLY DRAW qualification groups?

Oh wait.... - yes they did.

If this is your logic, then I can say use the same logic and say that CC3 also used random draw.

In CC3 it was created 32 pots with 1 clan in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen pots on the way that weight of every pair is equal=33 (1v32, 2v31...)

In CL5 it was created 6 pots with 6 clans in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen 1 clan from each pot on the way that weight of every group is equal 6+5+4+3+2+1=21.

So if CL5 is random, CC3 was also random, just number of clan in each pot was different (6 comparing to 1). So you see, your logic sucks. Random draw is when all 32 clans are placed together, and every clan has chance to play vs every other clan. That was not case in CL5. Clans from the same pots could not play vs each other.

Really josko? Come on man...

[josko.ri]

Oh I'm sorry - so CL5 didn't create pots and then RANDOMLY DRAW qualification groups?

Oh wait.... - yes they did.

If this is your logic, then I can say use the same logic and say that CC3 also used random draw.

In CC3 it was created 32 pots with 1 clan in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen pots on the way that weight of every pair is equal=33 (1v32, 2v31...)

In CL5 it was created 6 pots with 6 clans in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen 1 clan from each pot on the way that weight of every group is equal 6+5+4+3+2+1=21.

So if CL5 is random, CC3 was also random, just number of clan in each pot was different (6 comparing to 1). So you see, your logic sucks. Random draw is when all 32 clans are placed together, and every clan has chance to play vs every other clan. That was not case in CL5. Clans from the same pots could not play vs each other.

Really josko? Come on man...

Yeah really, I do not know what more to say to prove you that CL5 was not random. Whatever includes any type of seeding cannot be called random.

[IcePack]

Oh I'm sorry - so CL5 didn't create pots and then RANDOMLY DRAW qualification groups?

Oh wait.... - yes they did.

If this is your logic, then I can say use the same logic and say that CC3 also used random draw.

In CC3 it was created 32 pots with 1 clan in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen pots on the way that weight of every pair is equal=33 (1v32, 2v31...)

In CL5 it was created 6 pots with 6 clans in every of them, it was given weight to every pot, and then randomly chosen 1 clan from each pot on the way that weight of every group is equal 6+5+4+3+2+1=21.

So if CL5 is random, CC3 was also random, just number of clan in each pot was different (6 comparing to 1). So you see, your logic sucks. Random draw is when all 32 clans are placed together, and every clan has chance to play vs every other clan. That was not case in CL5. Clans from the same pots could not play vs each other.

Really josko? Come on man...

Yeah really, I do not know what more to say to prove you that CL5 was not random. Whatever includes any type of seeding cannot be called random.

Clearly we dont see things the same, nor can we have a discussion about it. We aren't going to convince one other of anything, i dont see the point in wasting each others time.

IcePack

[Doc_Brown]

(Never mind - not worth it)

[Chariot of Fire]

I think Foxglove has made some excellent observations; written far more succinctly than I could ever manage yet conveying my very thoughts and concerns. At the very crux of it lies the decision-making process, particularly in the fields of arbitrary judgments, drafting of the rules and the later interpretation thereof. If someone has taken on this event (in this case Dako) it should be left to that individual to be given free rein to draft what he considers a fair set of rules for the event, which can then be discussed/tweaked/voted on etc. He is custodian of the tournament and would be recognized as such, given tourney privileges and, more importantly, authority to implement the rule of law that every clan has agreed to uphold on joining the compeition. The CDs for their part are there for monitoring and guidance, not interference. Too many chiefs is a recipe for disaster. After CC4 there can be a review - as there should be after every big tournament of this nature - and if necessary a vote on whether to retain Dako (should he wish to stand again) or someone else who puts his or her name forward. This is a standard procedure one would find in any business or, more pertinently, committee. Right now I feel very much in the dark, as I'm sure countless others do, as here is a discussion forum open to the masses yet behind closed doors (in the CDF forum) there are ballots being held. And the counter argument should not be "Well have your clan rep tell you what's going on in there" otherwise what is the point of it being a closed group? It may just as well be conducted overtly and save a lot of duplication.

If I may be so bold as to make some suggestions:

1. Get a fully-comprehensive draft of The Rules published (incorporating everything from CC1, 2 & 3 that is still pertinent).
2. Start a new thread and post them there, at the top as the OP. Call it the CC4 sign-up thread.
3. Alert all clans to the new thread and the new rules and have them appoint one representative who will be their spokesperson in that thread (comments by others discarded). Everyone then has a chance to look at it, discuss it in their own clan's forum, and have their rep post if necessary. This is proper democratic process. Put a deadline of 26th March for the final approved draft.
4. Take sign-ups by 31st March so we know exactly how many clans are entering CC4 before the format of the draw is made (far easier to accomplish once you know how many you are dealing with)

That's off the top of my head. It may be too late to implement for CC4 so it's food for thought for CC5. And they are merely suggestions; the real purpose of this post was to address current concerns about deliberations made in the dark and the apparent lack of one authority for this event.

[IcePack]

4. Take sign-ups by 31st March so we know exactly how many clans are entering CC4 before the format of the draw is made (far easier to accomplish once you know how many you are dealing with)

Well the problem with this is, doing a random draw (or whatever josko wants to call it, his, qwert, whoevers system that isn't seeded by F400 and simple bracket) or being a simple bracket seeded by F400 may determine whether someone participates. I think its silly to have clans sign up before they know what they are signing up for.

The method at very least needs to be determined ahead of time.

IcePack

[Chariot of Fire]

4. Take sign-ups by 31st March so we know exactly how many clans are entering CC4 before the format of the draw is made (far easier to accomplish once you know how many you are dealing with)

Well the problem with this is, doing a random draw (or whatever josko wants to call it, his, qwert, whoevers system that isn't seeded by F400 and simple bracket) or being a simple bracket seeded by F400 may determine whether someone participates. I think its silly to have clans sign up before they know what they are signing up for.

The method at very least needs to be determined ahead of time.

IcePack

Yes, I see your point, though this can be managed. The two most salient points imo are i) Will it be F400 or previous standings in CC3 that determine seedings, and ii) Will it be a random draw or will it be part random/part fixed, i.e. like any tourney seeds 1-4 are kept in separate sides of the draw and seeds 5-8 are put in the brackets 4,3,2, & 1 respectively (so #1, 2 & 3 will not meet #5 in the Round of 16).

chapcrap (I think it was) made a point about why any clan should get a bye at all. I have to say in principle I would agree - it is after all a new tournament - but logistics simply don't make it a feasible option unless CC4 is delayed while all the semi-finalists from CC3 play-out their next challenge (both of which feature a large number of games). Common sense dictates that CC4 can get underway in April while the 4 clans from the semis of CC3 play their Final and 3rd Place matches. It's not favouritism, it's simply the only way it can work due to time constraints.

[Doc_Brown]

I suggest the following poll questions:
1) How many teams get a bye? a) None (tournament will be delayed until CC3 is completed). b) Top 4 teams from CC3. c) Top 8 teams in F400.
2) How shall seeding be determined? a) Seed based on F400 ranking (method used in CC3). b) Random draws up until a round yet to be determined (possibly round of 16). c) Earliest round rounds seeded with random draws from pots determined by F400 rankings (similar to CL5).

I think the proposed seeding methods are some variation of these three concepts, though I may not have given them a good enough description for a poll. Or maybe a poll isn't necessary and Dako can make a decision on both points. I think once you have an answer to both questions though, you can eliminate a lot of proposals that have been presented and finalize the tournament seeding.

[Chariot of Fire]

I have just read this (see below) and it makes me advocate the use of previous C.Cup results to determine seeds 1-4. This is for three very good reasons:

i) It is because the last 4 teams in the previous C.Cup will have just played the Final and the 3rd Place games.
ii) It is possible the F400 Top-4 differs from the last 4 teams in the previous C.Cup, thus it is possible for a C.Cup finalist to still be playing the previous cup when their draw falls due in the new version of the cup.
iii) It avoids repetition of the same 4 semi-finalists facing each other again, at least until the later stages of the tourney. The F400 changes little at the top and I've noticed over editions I, II & III of the C.Cup that we were always on the same side of the draw as KORT and, presumably, other clans found themselves repeating previous fixtures. We should try and avoid this.

Opponents may be allocated randomly (such as in the FA Cup); however, since the "luck of the draw" may result in the highest-rated competitors being scheduled to face each other early in the competition, seeding is often used to prevent this. Brackets are set up so that the top two seeds could not possibly meet until the final round (should both advance that far), none of the top four can meet prior to the semi-finals, and so on. If no seeding is used, the tournament is called a random knockout tournament.
One version of seeding is where brackets are set up so that the quarterfinal pairings (barring any upsets) would be the 1 seed vs. the 8 seed, 2 vs. 7, 3 vs. 6 and 4 vs. 5. While this may seem unfair to a casual observer, it should be pointed out that rankings of most competitors are generated by computers, and players tend to change ranking positions very gradually, so that a more equitable method of determining the pairings might result in many of the same head-to-head matchups being repeated over and over again in successive tournaments.

[josko.ri]

I suggest the following poll questions:
1) How many teams get a bye? a) None (tournament will be delayed until CC3 is completed). b) Top 4 teams from CC3. c) Top 8 teams in F400.
2) How shall seeding be determined? a) Seed based on F400 ranking (method used in CC3). b) Random draws up until a round yet to be determined (possibly round of 16). c) Earliest round rounds seeded with random draws from pots determined by F400 rankings (similar to CL5).

For example, I suggested both for 1) and for 2) something which is not included in your voting idea. Purpose of voting is to give to everyone freedom of putting his suggestion. if suggestion is bad, it will get 0 votes, so where is problem? It only opens space for good suggestions to give them deserved importance.

What I suggest is:
Make voting with those options:

Put current CC3 format without any changes as option 1.
Everyone who is interested make his own proposal which includes descriptions how is his proposal different than option 1. Someone will propose everything the same, just format different (option 2), someone will propose everything the same, just random draw instead of seeded draw (option 3), and someone will maybe change it completely (option 4). Proposals can also have additional comments by author why he thinks that his idea is better than others. Then we put all options together and whichever gets 50%+ votes wins. If no one gets 50%+ votes (more likely scenario) then top 2 options goes to another vote where another voting will determine which option will be chosen.

On that way everyone has the same chance to propose, and the same chance that his idea is going to be seriously considered. Why limit people ideas on 4/8 byes, F400/random seeding or whatever? If someone screw his proposal with terrible bye idea or terrible seeding idea or terrible whatever idea it is only his fault, his proposal will then get zero votes. look how many pages of suggestions are here, which only means that multiple players want to contribute, so why do not allow them to have equal contributing position like everyone else?

[Bruceswar]

As i mentioned before, The clan league and Cup both have had issues over the years.

What issues in previous events will the CDs required rules help prevent? Can you provide some specific examples, please? Issues caused by organizers going absent have nothing to do with additional rules.

Yes we have taken ownership, but no we are not running them.

Can you please clarify what ownership means? You get to decide which rules are mandatory (on top of the previous war requirements that we've had for years)? You delegate who does the work of organizing events?

The CDs are heavily involved in the league, and have helped with the running/organizing. The cup we have not had much input, as once the format is decided it is not hard to manage.

So the only benefit you see to CD involvement in the cup is deciding on the initial rules?

Its a huge undertaking for just one person, especially the clan league. If something were to happen to the TO in real life like the last league and cup, then there will be no delays in organization or updates as the CDs can just step in and take over.

Yes, that makes sense.

The CDs decided to make these events Official clan events as they represent the clan worlds two main competitions and as such we believe they should be fair to all clans. May I add Dako does not own the cup either. It was not his to begin with. The Original TO is no longer with us, and Dako very kindly stepped in mid cup last year.

I think the tournament is "owned" by whoever is doing the work of running it, just like any other tournament. The league is a different beast. But the cup is just a framework for a series of organized wars. Tournament organizers should be able to make the rules for events they run. Has anyone ever claimed that previous editions of the cup weren't fair to all clans?

Why is this a CD decision and not Dako's decision? Again, my understanding is that Dako is hosting and organizing this edition of the cup.

Again like i mentioned before, The Cd team are very keen for all clans to have a say in how the two main competitions are run. They are the ones playing them, and one person should not be picking and choosing all the rules, clans should be getting a say.

The cup is the most popular clan event, I think? If clans felt that they were being treated unfairly they probably wouldn't continue to join it. And yet, every year has more clans than the previous year.

CDF is where the votes take place. If your clan is not in the CDF they can't have their say.

I think the demise of the CLA proved how completely ineffectual it is to have every clan vote on every issue.

I will add that the only thing the CDs are insisting on for the cup is that people be members of CDF and the very hard fought for timing out rule remains in place. Bruce will reply more on the timing out rule. But I am only seeing two clans out of 50 complaining about it so far. The format and other rules are for Dako to have the final decision on. All we are doing is offering suggestions.

That's so clearly not true! You've said so many times in this thread that you own the event, and you and are requiring rules that the organizer *doesn't want*.

CDs demand oversight and decision making over the tournament in exchange for granting game-making privileges to the individual match-ups, even if the match-ups already meet the requirements for a war that's eligible for game-making privileges?

We do not demand oversight we made the decision to oversee these events for reasons stated above.

Demanding oversight is *exactly* what you did. What else can it possibly mean to say that you have taken ownership of an event that someone else is running?

We do not grant privileges in general for anything unless it is fair and meets the requirements.

Great. I think we've had rules established for fair wars for years now.

To Get to a few points. I was hoping to catch you online sooner, but since I have not I will post it here.

1. Nearly every event has run into some issues one way or the other. Everything from CL1 to CC 3. I could spend time pointing out things, like Chuuuuck going MIA, or wpbjr giving us hell then leaving. Or clans dropping from CL 2 in Div 2. How about TOFU vs KORT Time 1. What Nicky is saying is that the 2 biggest events need to be taken over by the CD's. That does not mean we will run them but that does mean we will have a hand in these events.

Just like in anything there has to be some rules. Being part of CDF is very easy. We want this in place so nobody says they do not have a chance to vote on any issues that arise. By ownership these events belong to clans themselves. jpcloet started the league back in 2009 and the Cup was started by Chuuuuck. Neither of which are around anymore, but yet these events live on. CD's are here to make sure these events follow the same general principle as they have in the past. The league is about a bunch of games at once. The Cup is about wars. People like both for different reasons.

As stated above, the CD's are here to make sure this cup remains pretty close to the previous 3. This is the biggest clan event and it got that way because people like it the way it is. People do not want 8 clans getting 2 rounds of byes, etc. Every clan should have earn their way to end of this cup just like all the others. Ofc odd number of clans mean some play in matches of sorts.

As for who owns these events. Dako, Chuuuck, jpcloet, Masli, Marval, wpbjr, qwert, or anybody else who has helped with these 2 events are "caretakers" for the next person. These events are owned by the clan world. No single person has the power over any event. Also I do not think anybody complained about it being unfair to any clans before, but then again people are voicing how they like the first 3 and want it to be the same and not like the league.

Chuuuuck set this event up so that all clans got a shot to win it. That is how it should stay and also why clans keep coming back for more. If not then nobody but the top clans would sign up. Why change what is not broken?

CDF is not the same as the CLA. CLA lacked that true leadership once jpcloet was gone. (No offense to anybody else who helped run it) CDF has that with the CD team and Nicky heading it up. CDF has proven to be very effective as far as voting goes and other issues within the clan world.

"That's so clearly not true! You've said so many times in this thread that you own the event, and you and are requiring rules that the organizer *doesn't want*. "

There are 3 things that the CD's have requested. All matches be 41 games so everybody who wins can get a medal. People seem to like medals. That clans be in CDF so they can get a vote when needed. And last that we keep the rule about timing out in. I know you and me do not agree on this one but it is something we want to keep in to keep it fair to all. You are going to have to trust us CD's to make a sound ruling if needed.

As you also read in the first pages there was talk of making the play in round 21 or 31 games. That means many clans miss out on privs and or medals. Putting the medals aside most all clans seem to love the privs and would not like having to make private games with passwords. That is sooo 2008.

You will see that we CD's are not out to wreck any event or to make life on the person who is running the event hard. We are just keeping everything in line. We CD's have taken ownership of these 2 events, but that does not mean we are going to run every single aspect of them. We are here to step in in case something happens, such as the recent TOFU vs KORT VOTK Game. Dako could not rule on that game since he is TOFU.


Closing this out with a simple answer to most all you asked. We CD's are very civil people who make wise decisions. We are not going to put the clan world or any clan at an unfair advantage. We will keep it fair and as fun for all as we can.

[Dako]

… These events are owned by the clan world. …

… We CD's have taken ownership of these 2 events, but that does not mean we are going to run every single aspect of them. …

So … who owns the event? CD's? Or clan world? Or are those terms equal? I am getting confused more and more with every post made by CDs.

I have even more questions but I will not ask them in public because they will discriminate some people.

[Bruceswar]

… These events are owned by the clan world. …

… We CD's have taken ownership of these 2 events, but that does not mean we are going to run every single aspect of them. …

So … who owns the event? CD's? Or clan world? Or are those terms equal? I am getting confused more and more with every post made by CDs.

I have even more questions but I will not ask them in public because they will discriminate some people.

Plain and simple. The CD's own the events on behalf of the clan world. We are just here to make sure the 2 biggest and best (In my opinion) remain that way. We not asking for anything harsh to be put in these rules, but we do want to keep it fair to all.

[eddie2]

dako no offense to you i think you will do a good job but i am getting totally muddled up here..

the other events under the ccup 4 have been run by chuuuuck away from cla and clan directors. there is a rule added that says all people that are taking part must be members of clan buddys (this i feel breaches certain clans rights to not join a user group they do not want to.. but should be allowed to join the cup if not members.) all other events have only ever said must qualify for the group.

ok people are asking questions of you regarding this event and most responses i have seen are from clan directors so who is actually running this thing ???

Since they are making it you must join clan buddys because all votes surronding this are made there and clan directors say they own this event then why was there not a thread in clan buddys asking who was willing to run this and a vote cast ?????

you see to me this is just looking like they want to say they own the event make clans sign up to a group to cast votes about this event but are not discussing everything or voting on all aspects of it, the way i am also seeing it is that if they are going to jump in and respond for you on a official bases then they should be running this thread and the event... and not using you as a general dogs body to do all the work for them.


this is just my thoughts.

fast posted by dako but i was just asking that so will post anyway

[jetsetwilly]

dako no offense to you i think you will do a good job but i am getting totally muddled up here..

the other events under the ccup 4 have been run by chuuuuck away from cla and clan directors. there is a rule added that says all people that are taking part must be members of clan buddys (this i feel breaches certain clans rights to not join a user group they do not want to.. but should be allowed to join the cup if not members.) all other events have only ever said must qualify for the group.

ok people are asking questions of you regarding this event and most responses i have seen are from clan directors so who is actually running this thing ???

Since they are making it you must join clan buddys because all votes surronding this are made there and clan directors say they own this event then why was there not a thread in clan buddys asking who was willing to run this and a vote cast ?????

you see to me this is just looking like they want to say they own the event make clans sign up to a group to cast votes about this event but are not discussing everything or voting on all aspects of it, the way i am also seeing it is that if they are going to jump in and respond for you on a official bases then they should be running this thread and the event... and not using you as a general dogs body to do all the work for them.


this is just my thoughts.

fast posted by dako but i was just asking that so will post anyway

Eddie, there is plenty of valid discussion in this thread. What is not needed is your personal issue with the C&Friends being voiced in here. The group functions well and is far removed from the CLA. You may not agree and that is your prerogative but it's here to stay and serves a very valid purpose.

[eddie2]

jetset it is not a personal issue with cd and friends it is the fact i do not understand who is running this event dako or clan directors. i do not have a issue with cd and friends but if you would like me to carry on posting saying i do.. because your post reminds me exactly of the cla in the meaning of if you do not agree with what you are saying then you automatically have a problem with the group.

[Dako]

Eddie, there is plenty of valid discussion in this thread. What is not needed is your personal issue with the C&Friends being voiced in here. The group functions well and is far removed from the CLA. You may not agree and that is your prerogative but it's here to stay and serves a very valid purpose.

I would not jump the gun here jsw. Eddie is not talking about CD&F here and I doubt he has any issues with CDF other than agreeing with it's policies. I think he is one of the people who don't understand what is happening with this event right now.

PS — I think CDF is not far from CLA to be honest. The only improvement I have seen is that people get PMs when they need to cast a vote.

[Bruceswar]

Eddie, there is plenty of valid discussion in this thread. What is not needed is your personal issue with the C&Friends being voiced in here. The group functions well and is far removed from the CLA. You may not agree and that is your prerogative but it's here to stay and serves a very valid purpose.

I would not jump the gun here jsw. Eddie is not talking about CD&F here and I doubt he has any issues with CDF other than agreeing with it's policies. I think he is one of the people who don't understand what is happening with this event right now.

PS — I think CDF is not far from CLA to be honest. The only improvement I have seen is that people get PMs when they need to cast a vote.

A bit off topic, but the CDF is far from the CLA. Now I am not talking about when jpcloet ran the CLA. Back in those days it was very good. In the end it was a wreck. CDF is much better and well organized. Thanks to Nicky and the other CD's who make it happen. It is a much more clean version of the CLA. While they are similar they are surely not the same.

Also to those of you who are wondering still. Dako is running this event, but in the event dako goes MIA or something else happens and he cannot continue on then the CD's will step in and take over. We CD's have put a few simple rules in which must happen for this event to take place. Nothing that we put in are game changers or deal breakers. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.

[Nicky15]

The CLA was one big Flame fest. Nothing got done because clans were too busy ripping into each other. It also become a benign discussion group as the people at the head of the group had no power to bring about change. This group is different, the flaming is not tolerated, clans get a say and at the head of the group you have the CD who can action the changes clans vote for.

In regards to other matters Neither the cup or league had an owner. Dako very kindly stepped in the latter stages of the cup and ran it for an absent Chuuuuck. This was his tourney. So yes the CDs are overseeing both to make sure clans get a say. And that the tournaments are run for the better of the whole clan world. To make sure these tourneys run to time and any issues that arise are dealt with fairly. No we are not running them, all we insisted on was that two original cup rules stayed. Dako is charged with bringing about everything else in the cup. As long as the final format is fair and is what the majority of clans want, we have no issues. I fail to see what the drama is. We are trying to advocate democracy and give clans a say by overseeing these events. No one complained about our input in the league, and everyone will again be complaining when rules are just made up mid comp, are poorly thought out and executed without discussion, this has happened in past comps, and won't happen again with the CDs overseeing.

[eddie2]

Also to those of you who are wondering still. Dako is running this event, but in the event dako goes MIA or something else happens and he cannot continue on then the CD's will step in and take over. We CD's have put a few simple rules in which must happen for this event to take place. Nothing that we put in are game changers or deal breakers. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.

thanks bruce that clears it up a little bit but do you not think that cd's should not be posting it you should notify dako he then agrees or disagrees then posts it with cds then backing up his post.

[Bruceswar]

Also to those of you who are wondering still. Dako is running this event, but in the event dako goes MIA or something else happens and he cannot continue on then the CD's will step in and take over. We CD's have put a few simple rules in which must happen for this event to take place. Nothing that we put in are game changers or deal breakers. Lets not make a mountain out of a molehill.

thanks bruce that clears it up a little bit but do you not think that cd's should not be posting it you should notify dako he then agrees or disagrees then posts it with cds then backing up his post.

Some things were not up for debate, such as being a member of CDF. That is a simple task that everybody can preform and it also ensures when a vote is needed everybody can have a say. Things like making sure all wars are able to have privs, and medals(things people like) was another thing we will not bend on. Unless the whole format changed, which I do not think most people want.


BTW on a personal note I do not think any clan should get a 2 round bye. That is not fair for anybody involved. Also I think the F 400 should be used as seeding and those not on it will just have to start at the back.

[Chariot of Fire]

BTW on a personal note I do not think any clan should get a 2 round bye. That is not fair for anybody involved. Also I think the F 400 should be used as seeding and those not on it will just have to start at the back.

So what have you done to promote these ideas? Anything? I thought as a CD your body was all about 'fairness' in regard to this event. So will you voice your opinion, or vote on it? And have you considered the ramifications for the clans that are about to embark on another lengthy challenge (in CC3) and the timeframe for the new tournament?

I too think all clans should start from the beginning, i.e. Round 1, but there are ramifications; a point I raised in an earlier post which has been conveniently overlooked (as it has been for the point on repetitive encounters, but then I'm perfectly happy meeting Kort again in an early round).