[Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of medals [Rejected]

[Arama86n]

edited arama,
no insult intended

Edited away my response as well, glad we sorted that out. Happy Holidays SirSebstar

[BigBallinStalin]

Quick questions:

(1) if the positions in here were succinctly summarized in one post, would that hasten the process of implementing this suggestion?

(2) is this thread the same as this thread?

[chapcrap]

Quick questions:

(1) if the positions in here were succinctly summarized in one post, would that hasten the process of implementing this suggestion?

I think the issue with this being implemented is the change in policy. I suppose that summarizing the positions can not hurt, but I think the issue is really whether or not the admin and owners want this to happen.

One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.

(2) is this thread the same as this thread?

I don't really know if they are the same. They are similar. We have the ability to strip medals.

[BigBallinStalin]

Got'cha. Thanks.

[agentcom]

Quick questions:

(1) if the positions in here were succinctly summarized in one post, would that hasten the process of implementing this suggestion?

I think the issue with this being implemented is the change in policy. I suppose that summarizing the positions can not hurt, but I think the issue is really whether or not the admin and owners want this to happen.

One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.

(2) is this thread the same as this thread?

I don't really know if they are the same. They are similar. We have the ability to strip medals.

The red part is actually what I think might have been part of Doom's suggestion in the other thread. Tbh, I'm not entirely sure what either of you were saying in that other thread.

[Symmetry]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

[chapcrap]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.

In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.

[Symmetry]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.

In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.

Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?

[patrickaa317]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.

In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.

Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?

Medals are derived from victories. You can't strip medals and not touch victory counts. Point reset is different subject.

[Symmetry]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.

In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.

Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?

Medals are derived from victories. You can't strip medals and not touch victory counts. Point reset is different subject.

Not all of them, obviously, but fair point. What do you suggest?

[patrickaa317]

stripping victories seems like a separate suggestion. If TPTb already have the power to strip medals, it should be employed.

Well, I'm not sure the admin agree.

In any case, it can't be employed separately. If you read what I wrote earlier, you would understand that if you wanted the bronze, silver, gold, and diamond medals stripped, something else must also be done in order for them to remain stripped. Otherwise, they will re-appear. Now, if you wanted other medals (GA, GC, TA, etc.) stripped, that is different. But those medals are (mostly) not really the medals achieved through cheating.

Fair enough. Would it be fair to say that this is tied to a point reset then?

Medals are derived from victories. You can't strip medals and not touch victory counts. Point reset is different subject.

Not all of them, obviously, but fair point. What do you suggest?

I suggest a giant asterisk next to their name or some other form of scarlet letter that will flag them out to everyone. Make it bigger with each offense.

[nicestash]

But have it go away after a period of time.

Sometimes cheating happens because of a misunderstanding of the rules.

[Symmetry]

But have it go away after a period of time.

Sometimes cheating happens because of a misunderstanding of the rules.

The mods are generally sympathetic to appeals. A time limit seems to me a poor idea. Ifs the medals are unearned fairly, why return them?

[patrickaa317]

But have it go away after a period of time.

Sometimes cheating happens because of a misunderstanding of the rules.

The mods are generally sympathetic to appeals. A time limit seems to me a poor idea. Ifs the medals are unearned fairly, why return them?

He was referring to my scarlet letter suggestion, not yours.

[nicestash]

Yep, I'm not sure why the 2 topics were merged...

[patrickaa317]

Yep, I'm not sure why the 2 topics were merged...

They weren't. I had the idea here, then started a new thread.

[Symmetry]

But have it go away after a period of time.

Sometimes cheating happens because of a misunderstanding of the rules.

The mods are generally sympathetic to appeals. A time limit seems to me a poor idea. Ifs the medals are unearned fairly, why return them?

He was referring to my scarlet letter suggestion, not yours.

Apologies.

[Armandolas]

I agree...a cheater does not deserve medals

[Symmetry]

Yep, I'm not sure why the 2 topics were merged...

They weren't. I had the idea here, then started a new thread.

Thanks for clearing that up. The issues were getting muddled. Hope you check back in here, even if you disagree with me

[Symmetry]

I agree...a cheater does not deserve medals

Pretty much.

[stahrgazer]

One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.

It seems fair that a "victory" that was gained through cheating should not count as a victory at all.

After a reasonable amount of time for the "appeals" process or while an appeal is pending, obviously, the stripping shouldn't occur. But once an appeal has been rejected or whatever term is used if the mods feel that they really did prove the case of cheating, then at least the "victories" gained in the proven games should be undone.

If that's too hard to figure out (how many specific games were probably won through cheating), then some set, predetermined, "global" percentage of games could be backed away. I'd suggest 25%. While a cheater may not have cheated on 25% of their games, stripping 25% of their victories is likely to lose them some of those medals and maybe the "excessive" nature of a 25% "victories reset" would be an additional discouragement from cheating.

[Fuzzylogic99]

[

Concise description:

• Add stripping cheaters of their points]
  
  Specifics/Details:
  • The obvious reason cheaters cheat is to get ahead.If a player is above 1200 points and is caught cheating they the mods have the option of stripping them of their points and making start back at 1200.This is only used if the player has been caught cheating two times or more ]
    
    
    How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
    • help reduce cheating and unfair play]
      [*gives the mods another tool to help deal with cheater

[/list]

[TheForgivenOne]

As of now, only Admin's have this ability. And this is only going to hurt other users, because of instead of playing against someone ranked a Colonel/Brig, they are playing a Corporal. They end up losing a lot more points then normal.

[BoganGod]

Good point TFO, have never thought about this issue from that perspective. A point strip could even benefit teammates of a point adjusted player.

[Symmetry]

One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.

It seems fair that a "victory" that was gained through cheating should not count as a victory at all.

After a reasonable amount of time for the "appeals" process or while an appeal is pending, obviously, the stripping shouldn't occur. But once an appeal has been rejected or whatever term is used if the mods feel that they really did prove the case of cheating, then at least the "victories" gained in the proven games should be undone.

If that's too hard to figure out (how many specific games were probably won through cheating), then some set, predetermined, "global" percentage of games could be backed away. I'd suggest 25%. While a cheater may not have cheated on 25% of their games, stripping 25% of their victories is likely to lose them some of those medals and maybe the "excessive" nature of a 25% "victories reset" would be an additional discouragement from cheating.

This does seem like a fair set of principles to move forward on. This thread has been in limbo for a while, so I'd like to hear if any objections have gone unadressed.