Why are we more comfortable with murder than rape?

[Haggis_McMutton]

It seems obvious that murder is worse yet looking at the ease we have at depicting, viewing or even discussing murder vs. rape suggests a different answer.

Why is rape so much more taboo?

I'm gonna post my view a little later cause I'm too lazy atm.

[Funkyterrance]

I'm guessing because we are just more desensitized towards murder since it's so prevalent in media.

[Night Strike]

Probably because the victim of rape is still alive and no one really knows how you're supposed to act or be around someone who was raped.

[john9blue]

i've wondered about people's overreaction to rape for a long time. i think funky has a good point. i think the feminist movement has a lot to do with it as well (kinda the same reason why breast cancer is a huge deal even though there are other, more dangerous forms of cancer... society instinctively wants to protect women for evolutionary reasons)

[Phatscotty]

I think the pandora box that exists inside humans, the male urge to rape is more important to try to keep in the box. Once it's let out, it gets contagious, and it is easier than murder, because nobody dies, and you have some degree of control over whether the victims even speaks or not, so it's not like a body is missing.

I probably just stumbled onto an esoteric observance of some kind

[muy_thaiguy]

Watch Law & Order SVU, they touch on the subject a lot. But basically it goes;

Rape-Means victim(s) is/are still alive and left traumatized, injured, and possibly caring STDs. Basically a whole lot of suffering with a living person.

Murder-VIctim is dead and is no longer suffering, family suffers, but the direct victim at least does not anymore.

[xxtig12683xx]

....

[BigBallinStalin]

Rape is a much more uncomfortable subject--even some unknown portion of the victims do not report it. Why? Muy_thaiguy seems to have the best answer: the damage still lingers. But why should others care so much more about rape compared to murder anyway?

I wanted to say that being desensitized allows for more conversation, but that's not true. For example, the mass killings in Place X instigated public policy debates and old feelings of making laws for something--regardless of its effectiveness. Where was the conversation about death itself? About murder?

Both subjects are too foreign for us, but murder is more familiar. It is closer to death, and perhaps all of us here have known someone close who has died. Murder is just a seasoning on top of death. Regardless, it seems that this familiarity with death allows us to be more familiar with murder, thus murder becomes less taboo than rape; whereas, rape is more taboo because we tend to be very unfamiliar with it.

[/]

I think that most modernized humans are rightfully uncomfortable with aspects of dehumanization and entrapment. Societies and religions have taught humans not to fear death, to believe in greater causes, freedom, reincarnation, afterlife, etc. If you look at murder through a medium that traps the dead to a lowered existence, such as certain ghost stories, it can be a rather uncomfortable topic as well.

That is what dehumanization feels like; things like rape, slavery, racism, stigmatization, and bullying. All those things prey on a human's very identity and self worth, it feels inescapable, and it can spiral out of control until the person breaks down.
It could potentially happen to anyone, and that what disgusts people, being beaten, with no sympathy or help from others, being looked down upon through no fault of your own, being in a society where random ill fate determines you are to be treated with disgust.

By embracing our disdain of cruel acts as a whole, we might indirectly ensure that we ourselves are not victimized and treated as inferior.

[kentington]

Watch Law & Order SVU, they touch on the subject a lot. But basically it goes;

Rape-Means victim(s) is/are still alive and left traumatized, injured, and possibly caring STDs. Basically a whole lot of suffering with a living person.

Murder-VIctim is dead and is no longer suffering, family suffers, but the direct victim at least does not anymore.

This is how I view it.
Also, the term taboo seems to be referring to rape as a No-No subject somewhat on the forums. My initial thought is that it is possible for someone viewing these threads to have been taken advantage of in the past and can cause problems, however, if they are viewing the threads they probably haven't been murdered?

[AAFitz]

Rape is a much more uncomfortable subject--even some unknown portion of the victims do not report it. Why? Muy_thaiguy seems to have the best answer: the damage still lingers. But why should others care so much more about rape compared to murder anyway?

I would say that they are probably men who don't fully understand rape, and that if you asked a woman, she would just say men are stupid and ignorant about the crime, which is why the seem to care about it more.

The other problem, the one that makes everyone uncomfortable, is you statistically know a rape victim, and a rapist. You almost certainly do not know a murder victim, and (hopefully) do not know a murderer, while you may very well know someone who has killed another person justifiably, as in a war, so you have to be very careful about how you discuss this topic as well...as I am trying to do here.

There is no downside to being passionate about the evil of rape, because no one one, except perhaps a rapist, will disagree with you, where as if you start talking about the evils of shooting people, you most certainly be careful about your company.

I know from experience, after working with a vet for years, that you absolutely have to be careful about some of the terminology and conversations you have. And again, while murder and war are completely different, the act discussed is killing a person, simply is not always a bad thing, where as rape, always is.

Also, Men in general can imagine getting killed, but most can't imagine getting raped(some here probably aren't even considering it as part of the discussion) so it psychologically more frightening, but if rationally asked to make the horrible choice, one would choose life, just as the majority of rape victims do.

[muy_thaiguy]

Okay, I'll expand a little bit on why rape is more taboo than murder.

For rape victims, the traumatization of being raped can have many profound effects. Drug abuse, severe depression, suicidal tendancies, PTSD, abuse of others, alcoholism, pedophilia (has caused it before, depending on the age of the victim), and many other long term, if not permanent scars (physical and psychological). They went through a living hell, and if they want to press charges, they have to re-live these events over and over by telling it to the police, lawyers, and the courts. It's highly uncomfortable and downright disturbing for non-victims, but far worse for the victims themselves.

Murder, while horrible in it's own right, the victim is gone and no longer suffering (whatever you believe, that much is true). Not to say that they aren't killed in some very brutal and horrible ways, but they won't be suffering anymore. In a way, death is somewhat of a mercy, in that they won't be suffering any of the long term psychological or physical effects of the assault, but it is still awful.

[Funkyterrance]

I think that most modernized humans are rightfully uncomfortable with aspects of dehumanization and entrapment. Societies and religions have taught humans not to fear death, to believe in greater causes, freedom, reincarnation, afterlife, etc. If you look at murder through a medium that traps the dead to a lowered existence, such as certain ghost stories, it can be a rather uncomfortable topic as well.

That is what dehumanization feels like; things like rape, slavery, racism, stigmatization, and bullying. All those things prey on a human's very identity and self worth, it feels inescapable, and it can spiral out of control until the person breaks down.
It could potentially happen to anyone, and that what disgusts people, being beaten, with no sympathy or help from others, being looked down upon through no fault of your own, being in a society where random ill fate determines you are to be treated with disgust.

By embracing our disdain of cruel acts as a whole, we might indirectly ensure that we ourselves are not victimized and treated as inferior.

I agree that both rape and murder involve forcible and unwanted loss of control over one's body by another and in this respect they are equally terrible. In my mind death and murder are only notably common by one detail: Loss of life.
My question then is why is rape considered by some to be more joke-worthy than murder? I am prone to believe that it is the sexual aspect of rape that causes a knee-jerk laugh that a taboo subject arouses. People tend to laugh at the most taboo subjects due to them being unfamiliar, just as jokes are most funny when they catch us off guard. It's a cheap trick but it gets the desired response by the teller.
I myself am more partial to observational humor.

[tzor]

The more I look at the title, the more I disagree with the premise. Both murder and rape form a spectrum. If you cherry pick the cases you can get a scenario where we appear more comfortable with murder than rape.

But let's take the example of the Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders from 2007. I can guarantee you the un-comfort level is going to go up very high on this example. Of course this is complicated by the rape of an 11 year old girl. When you consider the un-comfort level, remember that in the state of Connecticut, a normally liberal state, they got the death penalty. In fact, when they tried to outlaw the penalty, they were cited as the reason for the veto.

[Funkyterrance]

The more I look at the title, the more I disagree with the premise. Both murder and rape form a spectrum. If you cherry pick the cases you can get a scenario where we appear more comfortable with murder than rape.

But let's take the example of the Cheshire, Connecticut, home invasion murders from 2007. I can guarantee you the un-comfort level is going to go up very high on this example. Of course this is complicated by the rape of an 11 year old girl. When you consider the un-comfort level, remember that in the state of Connecticut, a normally liberal state, they got the death penalty. In fact, when they tried to outlaw the penalty, they were cited as the reason for the veto.

This raises a good point. If someone close to you were murdered or raped, I think that the feelings of rage/powerlessness would be very similar if not identical aside from the increased level of grief one would experience from a murder.

[BigBallinStalin]

Rape is a much more uncomfortable subject--even some unknown portion of the victims do not report it. Why? Muy_thaiguy seems to have the best answer: the damage still lingers. But why should others care so much more about rape compared to murder anyway?

I would say that they are probably men who don't fully understand rape, and that if you asked a woman, she would just say men are stupid and ignorant about the crime, which is why the seem to care about it more.

The other problem, the one that makes everyone uncomfortable, is you statistically know a rape victim, and a rapist. You almost certainly do not know a murder victim, and (hopefully) do not know a murderer, while you may very well know someone who has killed another person justifiably, as in a war, so you have to be very careful about how you discuss this topic as well...as I am trying to do here.

There is no downside to being passionate about the evil of rape, because no one one, except perhaps a rapist, will disagree with you, where as if you start talking about the evils of shooting people, you most certainly be careful about your company.

I know from experience, after working with a vet for years, that you absolutely have to be careful about some of the terminology and conversations you have. And again, while murder and war are completely different, the act discussed is killing a person, simply is not always a bad thing, where as rape, always is.

Also, Men in general can imagine getting killed, but most can't imagine getting raped(some here probably aren't even considering it as part of the discussion) so it psychologically more frightening, but if rationally asked to make the horrible choice, one would choose life, just as the majority of rape victims do.

Right. 'Taboo-ness' depends on the degree of familiarity.

[oss spy]

I disagree that people are more desensitized to murder than to rape. If you've seen the movie Django Unchained, then you'll know which part of the movie that I'm referring to. I think it's because death is easy to picture, even if that image is completely wrong (i.e. getting shot and flying backwards thirty feet, through a wall, and into someone's window) whereas the only way to picture rape is...well, realistically, which is why I think rape is viewed as worse than murder.

[Army of GOD]

Rape has been trivialized in my mind over the last few years. The "got jumped in a back alley and was forcibly fucked" type of rape seems almost like a myth now compared to the "got really drunk, had sex and now regret it" rape. Sort of like the Duke Lacrosse team case.

I'm not saying rape means nothing now. I've had close relationships (even dated two) with people who have been raped and took it completely seriously with them. But I'm not going to sit here on the internets, with a complete lack of context and agree with rds that "rape isn't funny". As I said, rape can be hilarious. It, like the use of the n-word, one-hundred-and-thousand-percent all depends on context.

[Funkyterrance]

I'm not saying rape means nothing now. I've had close relationships (even dated two) with people who have been raped and took it completely seriously with them. But I'm not going to sit here on the internets, with a complete lack of context and agree with rds that "rape isn't funny".

So basically you were being duplicitous with the person you were dating. The only difference I can see is that you were too chicken to let the person know how you really felt: you think rape can be funny. It's not really a flippy floppy subject so I'm sure you had those people convinced that you didn't think it was ever funny. Nice work.
You have no idea of who your audience on here is, it could very well be people who have been raped. To me this just shows that you aren't an honest person since you repress your views when in rl situations to save face but openly express them here. Or did you discuss the "funny" rape scenarios with these acquaintances of yours?

[john9blue]

I'm not saying rape means nothing now. I've had close relationships (even dated two) with people who have been raped and took it completely seriously with them. But I'm not going to sit here on the internets, with a complete lack of context and agree with rds that "rape isn't funny".

So basically you were being duplicitous with the person you were dating. The only difference I can see is that you were too chicken to let the person know how you really felt: you think rape can be funny. It's not really a flippy floppy subject so I'm sure you had those people convinced that you didn't think it was ever funny. Nice work.
You have no idea of who your audience on here is, it could very well be people who have been raped. To me this just shows that you aren't an honest person since you repress your views when in rl situations to save face but openly express them here. Or did you discuss the "funny" rape scenarios with these acquaintances of yours?

you realize that everybody does this, right?

[Funkyterrance]

I'm not saying rape means nothing now. I've had close relationships (even dated two) with people who have been raped and took it completely seriously with them. But I'm not going to sit here on the internets, with a complete lack of context and agree with rds that "rape isn't funny".

So basically you were being duplicitous with the person you were dating. The only difference I can see is that you were too chicken to let the person know how you really felt: you think rape can be funny. It's not really a flippy floppy subject so I'm sure you had those people convinced that you didn't think it was ever funny. Nice work.
You have no idea of who your audience on here is, it could very well be people who have been raped. To me this just shows that you aren't an honest person since you repress your views when in rl situations to save face but openly express them here. Or did you discuss the "funny" rape scenarios with these acquaintances of yours?

you realize that everybody does this, right?

Regarding rape?
News to me. Truth be told I know a good number of people who are pretty much honest about their beliefs in any situation. Their reputation suffers and this is unfortunate but I respect them for it.
I can tell you I don't personally think rape is funny in any context. My feelings on the subject overwhelm any humorous response. Am I such an anomaly?

[Lootifer]

Rape-Means victim(s) is/are still alive and left traumatized, injured, and possibly caring STDs. Basically a whole lot of suffering with a living person.

Murder-VIctim is dead and is no longer suffering, family suffers, but the direct victim at least does not anymore.

This; its especially pertinant if you dont believe in an afterlife. To me dead people dont suffer.

edit: context: I am not comfortable with either.

Oh and AoG; while you may have a point, trivialising it is the worst possible thing to do. You must always maintain critical thought; if someone falls into the category of what you call "funny rape" then they havent actually been raped from an moral point of view. You should, for obvious reasons, never trivialise anything as morally wrong as [genuine] rape under any circumstances; though, I assume you dont of course, but your comments are somewhat ambiguous.

[john9blue]

Regarding rape?
News to me. Truth be told I know a good number of people who are pretty much honest about their beliefs in any situation. Their reputation suffers and this is unfortunate but I respect them for it.

everybody changes their behavior based on who they're talking to

[Funkyterrance]

Regarding rape?
News to me. Truth be told I know a good number of people who are pretty much honest about their beliefs in any situation. Their reputation suffers and this is unfortunate but I respect them for it.

everybody changes their behavior based on who they're talking to

Behavior, yes. But on an issue such as this it's a little more complicated than that. We are talking about fundamental beliefs. On questions such as these there is a higher scale of duplicity that basically equates to deception.

[new guy1]

People, Im siding with Army here. I mean, really?I think it can be joked about, but Im not going to walk up to someone who was raped and make a joke about it. And in the sense of rape, no, it is not a joke, it is serious and should be punished. In joking context, its the same as racists jokes or sexual jokes, obviously the party who is being made fun of is not going to appreciate it unless they are open to a sense of humor, which victims of rape obviously wouldnt be. Why would you not be serious about it around someone who was raped?