geots & SirJohn13[cleared]es

[universalchiro]

Accused:

geots
SirJohn13


The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 12053905
Game 12053907
Game 12053909
Game 12000919
Game 12053894


Comments:Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053905 geots has base "O" takes regions AP1 then AP2.... While SirJohn13 has neighboring base "N", SirJohn takes regions AP5, AP3. SirJohn13 leaves a single on AP3, while geots deploys 5 to make 11 troops on adjacent AP2. geots doesn't take AP3 though he has 11 v 1 troop advantage. Why? They are both from the clan "A fistful of Sixes". By not taking AP3 & breaking SirJohn of a bonus, geots was attempting to allow SirJohn to run the table at the south pole. They are cheating.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053907: geots has Bases "B" & "C", takes regions Mau3,4. SirJohn13 has bases "D" & "K". SirJohn develops bonus off of base K. geots then takes regions Mau 5 & 6. SirJohn takes FL4 from base D, which is next to geots' two bases. then geots reveals the secret alliance established before game even started, geots takes FL1, sees SirJohn and blows right on past him w/o attacking him, taking FL2, Mar1,Mar3. geots forts 2 troops to the far front of Mar3, knowing that he is safe from SirJohn his teammate, geots forts 2 troops to FL1 (Not to block SirJohn), but to block Base E (a non-clan member) from coming around. Then to cover his tracks, posts in game chat "peace green?" Who would allow peace when you need two regions in same district to bonus. No one but a Fistful of Sixes clan member would allow an opponent to keep a bonus and not try to take FL1 or FL2 for their own bonus. Then goets, knowing the security of his teammate, advances to AL1,2. Oh and The remaining troop from FL1 was moved to AL2 (front line), which left 1's from Mau3,4,5,6 FL1,2 , and SirJohn his teammate right in the middle of all those unprotected 1's being at FL4. Another scenario was brewing in another sector: Yellow Silversun was sitting on AL5, close to going to South Pole, Sirjohn with 23+ troops takes AL7 and is now adjacent to Silversun, which SirJohn gladly reduces Silversun's stack & Neutral Sector to make it easier for geots to go through Silversun & South Pole. When geots is ready to make attack run, Sirjohn clears his troops off his bases, still not attacking the rows of 1's that gives geots the bonuses & fuels his victory.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053909: When geots & SirJohn13 are not neighbors, you get to see how they attack opponents with fervor to break them of their bonuses.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12000919: When geots & SirJohn13 are not neighbors, they attack opponents to break enemy bonuses, they don't allow someone to hold a single bonus that has 1's next to them. Oh but if it was a fellow clan member, you bet, "you are safe, you can have 1's and I won't hit you". They are cheats.

Peloponessian War Fog Terminator: Game 12053894: Here geots and SirJohn13 are neighbors. geots reduces the neutral that separated SirJohn and himself. Why? Knowing that SirJohn had 5 spoils (cashing for 12 troops), geots collected his 5th spoil, when SirJohn's next turn approached, SirJohn would cash, kill geots for a mid-turn double cash. With the turn prior goets reduced the neutral allowing for his teammate to run the table. They are clan members, they log into each others account and they both knew that if SirJohn killed geots he would get a mid-turn double cash for 15 & 20 troops to run the table. What's the harm in allowing your teammate to kill you for the greater good of running the table and taking 20-25 points from 6 other players, knowing that your "A fistful of Sixes" clan member will return the favor.

[jltile1]

Rather odd your not in the games. Why are the others not reporting this ??

[jltile1]

What is the point of cheating if you don't win. One of them won on game wtf are you crying for. And why have games where you have clan mates to cheat. You really have to get with some real shit your stalking and should be reported. What is your business in their games ??? Really I don't see in any of the chat that people are pissed only you a outsider looking in a game of FOG. Grow a set please and quit with the BS reports!!!!

[universalchiro]

A comment from "A Fistful of Sixes" clan member has no credence. You are emotionally involved. Whether I was in the games or not or whether their opponents see that geots' & SirJohn13 have cheated, does not remove the evidence of geots' & SirJohn13's cheating tactics. They will be exposed for who they are: Playing Fog terminator games with clan members/allies using secret diplomacy to achieve an unfair advantage.

[SaMejoHn]

lol didn't you accuse them of something else before? and they were cleared? It's going to look very bad for you if they are cleared again. but im guessing you have no shame.

[universalchiro]

Again, another comment by their clan members that gives no merit to the facts presented. I'm sure geots & SirJohn is telling all their clan members about this & for them to help by commenting, but there is no value to this thread for "A fistful of sixes" clan members to post here & say personal things about me that has nothing to do with the facts presented. It only shows you place loyalty to your clan members, above the facts. You would benefit this claim & yourself if you pursued truth over clan loyalty.

[Gillipig]

Okay clearly clan members shouldn't come here and just throw in their opinions, if you don't have anything specific to add, and are not impartial, don't post. This is not a general discussion thread.

I see no indication of secret diplomacy in either of the games listed. The other players in the game (skilled experienced players) doesn't seem to suspect that they are cheating, the one instance where someone is frustrated with one of their moves was:

2012-12-27 18:11:33 - SirJohn13: sorry for that kingm, but I was blocked from the pole
2012-12-28 12:20:03 - Kingm: wow
2012-12-28 12:20:41 - Kingm: but you could have done it with just 2 regions, for crying out loud
2012-12-28 12:27:34 - SirJohn13: had to connect my bases as well

[SaMejoHn]

Okay clearly clan members shouldn't come here and just throw in their opinions, if you don't have anything specific to add, and are not impartial, don't post. This is not a general discussion thread.

I see no indication of secret diplomacy in either of the games listed. The other players in the game (skilled experienced players) doesn't seem to suspect that they are cheating, the one instance where someone is frustrated with one of their moves was:

2012-12-27 18:11:33 - SirJohn13: sorry for that kingm, but I was blocked from the pole
2012-12-28 12:20:03 - Kingm: wow
2012-12-28 12:20:41 - Kingm: but you could have done it with just 2 regions, for crying out loud
2012-12-28 12:27:34 - SirJohn13: had to connect my bases as well

i saw thread and jtile1 post and i saw how he dismissed him simply for being a clan member lol i just wanted to arouse his conspiracy theory. The truth of the matter is though we are in same clan those two hardly post much in forums. So to accuse them of telling

all their clan members about this & for them to help by commenting,

is presumptuous and just untrue. lol also, I see no reason why members of clan can't be unbiased. This has no bearing on clan. In fact, the fact that the op is on a witch hunt for these two suggested we are, at the very least, less biased than he is. I bet those two don't even know i'm in the clan

[Gillipig]

Okay clearly clan members shouldn't come here and just throw in their opinions, if you don't have anything specific to add, and are not impartial, don't post. This is not a general discussion thread.

I see no indication of secret diplomacy in either of the games listed. The other players in the game (skilled experienced players) doesn't seem to suspect that they are cheating, the one instance where someone is frustrated with one of their moves was:

2012-12-27 18:11:33 - SirJohn13: sorry for that kingm, but I was blocked from the pole
2012-12-28 12:20:03 - Kingm: wow
2012-12-28 12:20:41 - Kingm: but you could have done it with just 2 regions, for crying out loud
2012-12-28 12:27:34 - SirJohn13: had to connect my bases as well

i saw thread and jtile1 post and i saw how he dismissed him simply for being a clan member lol i just wanted to arouse his conspiracy theory. The truth of the matter is though we are in same clan those two hardly post much in forums. So to accuse them of telling

all their clan members about this & for them to help by commenting,

is presumptuous and just untrue. lol also, I see no reason why members of clan can't be unbiased. This has no bearing on clan. In fact, the fact that the op is on a witch hunt for these two suggested we are, at the very least, less biased than he is. I bet those two don't even know i'm in the clan

You're biased because:
a) Clan members are often friends.
b) If two of your best clanmembers were to be banned or blocked from playing in the same games, it would hurt your clan and thereby you.

But I don't think you need to worry, the op doesn't have a strong case, and I'd be mightly surprised if they were even warned for anything as a result of this report.

[SaMejoHn]

Okay clearly clan members shouldn't come here and just throw in their opinions, if you don't have anything specific to add, and are not impartial, don't post. This is not a general discussion thread.

I see no indication of secret diplomacy in either of the games listed. The other players in the game (skilled experienced players) doesn't seem to suspect that they are cheating, the one instance where someone is frustrated with one of their moves was:

2012-12-27 18:11:33 - SirJohn13: sorry for that kingm, but I was blocked from the pole
2012-12-28 12:20:03 - Kingm: wow
2012-12-28 12:20:41 - Kingm: but you could have done it with just 2 regions, for crying out loud
2012-12-28 12:27:34 - SirJohn13: had to connect my bases as well

i saw thread and jtile1 post and i saw how he dismissed him simply for being a clan member lol i just wanted to arouse his conspiracy theory. The truth of the matter is though we are in same clan those two hardly post much in forums. So to accuse them of telling

all their clan members about this & for them to help by commenting,

is presumptuous and just untrue. lol also, I see no reason why members of clan can't be unbiased. This has no bearing on clan. In fact, the fact that the op is on a witch hunt for these two suggested we are, at the very least, less biased than he is. I bet those two don't even know i'm in the clan

You're biased because:
a) Clan members are often friends.
b) If two of your best clanmembers were to be banned or blocked from playing in the same games, it would hurt your clan and thereby you.

But I don't think you need to worry, the op doesn't have a strong case, and I'd be mightly surprised if they were even warned for anything as a result of this report.

In regards to your reasoning there...
a)i dont really know those guys on account of my being new in the group.
b) even if they were to be banned it would be in standard NOT team games so lol it wouldn't hurt my clan or me. actually ive played sirjohn on standard he is a tough. so playing him and geots standard in one game would only hurt me assuming he is as good or better.So you see, I don't have a dog in this fight.

[Edgron]

I normally do not post in this forum but read it a lot just for my own fun. Couldn't resist this time.

This is a thread that describes games where I was in too in 4 of them.

To kick of my comments: I cannot understand that the OP starts a thread about games he wasn't in. But he has the right to do so and obviously doesn't think it's a waist of time. I cannot say the same...

These games are all alike. It's most luck that decides the winner. We play these a lot and most with the same players. Everybody leaves each others bonus most of the time because it's a sort of race anyway. It has nothing to do with secret diplomacy or what ever you like to call it. Most of the time it's asked in chat to leave each other alone, but after playing so many of these with the same players you don't really need to state it in chat since we all do it. So we should all be included in the secret diplomacy accusation. But that would be really weird don't you think.....

Another weird part from this post is that in the 5 games of prove provided only 1 was won by Geots and one by SirJohn13. People of that rank would be very bad players if they didn't win them all if you ask me.

I personally think this thread is made as sort of a argument the OP has against these guys. Which is fine, please do so if you need that, but don't feel bad if the outcome will be the same every time.
You have a nice rank yourself, I wouldn't let the shine come of my star, by making these reports.

Happy new year to all.

BTW I'm not from the same clan

[SirJohn13]

Wow, it seems I have an internet stalker.

Last time you got off easy universalchiro, but I don't think you will escape a warning for spurious reports this time.


P.S. Happy New Year everybody

[Gillipig]

Okay clearly clan members shouldn't come here and just throw in their opinions, if you don't have anything specific to add, and are not impartial, don't post. This is not a general discussion thread.

I see no indication of secret diplomacy in either of the games listed. The other players in the game (skilled experienced players) doesn't seem to suspect that they are cheating, the one instance where someone is frustrated with one of their moves was:

2012-12-27 18:11:33 - SirJohn13: sorry for that kingm, but I was blocked from the pole
2012-12-28 12:20:03 - Kingm: wow
2012-12-28 12:20:41 - Kingm: but you could have done it with just 2 regions, for crying out loud
2012-12-28 12:27:34 - SirJohn13: had to connect my bases as well

i saw thread and jtile1 post and i saw how he dismissed him simply for being a clan member lol i just wanted to arouse his conspiracy theory. The truth of the matter is though we are in same clan those two hardly post much in forums. So to accuse them of telling

all their clan members about this & for them to help by commenting,

is presumptuous and just untrue. lol also, I see no reason why members of clan can't be unbiased. This has no bearing on clan. In fact, the fact that the op is on a witch hunt for these two suggested we are, at the very least, less biased than he is. I bet those two don't even know i'm in the clan

You're biased because:
a) Clan members are often friends.
b) If two of your best clanmembers were to be banned or blocked from playing in the same games, it would hurt your clan and thereby you.

But I don't think you need to worry, the op doesn't have a strong case, and I'd be mightly surprised if they were even warned for anything as a result of this report.

In regards to your reasoning there...
a)i dont really know those guys on account of my being new in the group.
b) even if they were to be banned it would be in standard NOT team games so lol it wouldn't hurt my clan or me. actually ive played sirjohn on standard he is a tough. so playing him and geots standard in one game would only hurt me assuming he is as good or better.So you see, I don't have a dog in this fight.

The accused doesn't need random clan members to come in and post their sympathies in a Q&A thread. You've never posted in this part of the forum before, except now when two of your clan members are the subject of a Q&A report, coincidence? Not likely.
You may lie to yourself but the fact that you're even here tells me that you're partial, and only post in this thread to defend your buds.

[SirJohn13]

It is irrelevant to the topic, but let me clarify that since I do not visit the Clan's Forum lately (and neither does geots I think), I didn't even know that SaMejoHn is a clanmate, until he mentioned it in this thread......so your whole reasoning has no basis Gillipig

[benga]

It is irrelevant to the topic, but let me clarify that since I do not visit the Clan's Forum lately (and neither does geots I think), I didn't even know that SaMejoHn is a clanmate, until he mentioned it in this thread......so your whole reasoning has no basis Gillipig

Maybe you don't, but others might be more aware what clans they join, who knows maybe Edgron will join afos soon

[Gillipig]

It is irrelevant to the topic, but let me clarify that since I do not visit the Clan's Forum lately (and neither does geots I think), I didn't even know that SaMejoHn is a clanmate, until he mentioned it in this thread......so your whole reasoning has no basis Gillipig

Let me get this straight, you think he just happen to come to this thread then? He hasn't posted here at all until this thread pops up, your thread.
He knows who you and/or geots are and he's here to stand up for his new found clanmates! Anyone with two braincells can figure that out.
I don't care all too much about it but I hate when people lie.
This is all incredibly pointless however, clearly you and geots have done nothing wrong in these games.

[geots]

This is the second accusation by universalchiro, which starts to look like a personal crusade or a witch-hunting. Once again, I am open to co-operate with the moderators and will contribute to clarify the case.

I would like to bring the following to the attention of the moderators:
1. Is it possible to run a statistical analysis of my scoring in games where sirjohn13 participates and the ones without him? The results should be more or less similar, dismissing any concern of secret diplomacy.
2. Is there a rule for unjustified accusations or defamation attempts? Please inform me how I can make use of it.
3. I don’t start games or pick random ones – in the vast majority of the occasions, I join games after private invitation by the organizers. I consider these people as my friends and want to maintain a good relationship with them. With your permission, I will share the results of this and the previous abuse reports

Geots

[jltile1]

It is irrelevant to the topic, but let me clarify that since I do not visit the Clan's Forum lately (and neither does geots I think), I didn't even know that SaMejoHn is a clanmate, until he mentioned it in this thread......so your whole reasoning has no basis Gillipig

Let me get this straight, you think he just happen to come to this thread then? He hasn't posted here at all until this thread pops up, your thread.
He knows who you and/or geots are and he's here to stand up for his new found clanmates! Anyone with two braincells can figure that out.
I don't care all too much about it but I hate when people lie.
This is all incredibly pointless however, clearly you and geots have done nothing wrong in these games.

You should not accuse people's motive. As for me I did NOT know they were clan mates until I actually checked one of their registered users. I never have ran across these two on the battle field. Are clan is very big with great players but further more this is not about our clan or reasons for posting in this topic.

Here are facts the O.P. is not in the games they are FOG, so to spend tons of time reading game logs seems silly. ED states about the game play he is from another clan. These are among the best players here I would suppose that they know how to fill a form out to report actions they see wrong.

I do post in the CA threads this happened to be a clan member so what I see stupid ass reports I put my in put in. Case closed nothing more than a witch hunt here FISTER or not!

[Kaskavel]

In case it is true, I would really love to know how people can cheat in escalating Antartica, lol

[Jdsizzleslice]

Accused:

geots
SirJohn13


The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 12053905
Game 12053907
Game 12053909
Game 12000919
Game 12053894


Comments:Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053905 geots has base "O" takes regions AP1 then AP2.... While SirJohn13 has neighboring base "N", SirJohn takes regions AP5, AP3. SirJohn13 leaves a single on AP3, while geots deploys 5 to make 11 troops on adjacent AP2. geots doesn't take AP3 though he has 11 v 1 troop advantage. Why? They are both from the clan "A fistful of Sixes". By not taking AP3 & breaking SirJohn of a bonus, geots was attempting to allow SirJohn to run the table at the south pole. They are cheating.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053907: geots has Bases "B" & "C", takes regions Mau3,4. SirJohn13 has bases "D" & "K". SirJohn develops bonus off of base K. geots then takes regions Mau 5 & 6. SirJohn takes FL4 from base D, which is next to geots' two bases. then geots reveals the secret alliance established before game even started, geots takes FL1, sees SirJohn and blows right on past him w/o attacking him, taking FL2, Mar1,Mar3. geots forts 2 troops to the far front of Mar3, knowing that he is safe from SirJohn his teammate, geots forts 2 troops to FL1 (Not to block SirJohn), but to block Base E (a non-clan member) from coming around. Then to cover his tracks, posts in game chat "peace green?" Who would allow peace when you need two regions in same district to bonus. No one but a Fistful of Sixes clan member would allow an opponent to keep a bonus and not try to take FL1 or FL2 for their own bonus. Then goets, knowing the security of his teammate, advances to AL1,2. Oh and The remaining troop from FL1 was moved to AL2 (front line), which left 1's from Mau3,4,5,6 FL1,2 , and SirJohn his teammate right in the middle of all those unprotected 1's being at FL4. Another scenario was brewing in another sector: Yellow Silversun was sitting on AL5, close to going to South Pole, Sirjohn with 23+ troops takes AL7 and is now adjacent to Silversun, which SirJohn gladly reduces Silversun's stack & Neutral Sector to make it easier for geots to go through Silversun & South Pole. When geots is ready to make attack run, Sirjohn clears his troops off his bases, still not attacking the rows of 1's that gives geots the bonuses & fuels his victory.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12053909: When geots & SirJohn13 are not neighbors, you get to see how they attack opponents with fervor to break them of their bonuses.

Antarctica Fog Terminator: Game 12000919: When geots & SirJohn13 are not neighbors, they attack opponents to break enemy bonuses, they don't allow someone to hold a single bonus that has 1's next to them. Oh but if it was a fellow clan member, you bet, "you are safe, you can have 1's and I won't hit you". They are cheats.

Peloponessian War Fog Terminator: Game 12053894: Here geots and SirJohn13 are neighbors. geots reduces the neutral that separated SirJohn and himself. Why? Knowing that SirJohn had 5 spoils (cashing for 12 troops), geots collected his 5th spoil, when SirJohn's next turn approached, SirJohn would cash, kill geots for a mid-turn double cash. With the turn prior goets reduced the neutral allowing for his teammate to run the table. They are clan members, they log into each others account and they both knew that if SirJohn killed geots he would get a mid-turn double cash for 15 & 20 troops to run the table. What's the harm in allowing your teammate to kill you for the greater good of running the table and taking 20-25 points from 6 other players, knowing that your "A fistful of Sixes" clan member will return the favor.

Seems like you're mad because none of these are SD. LOLOLOL.

(I'm not in any clan, so this is an un-biased opinion)

[Evil Semp]

Guys I ran out of locks so maybe tomorrow I will stop by the hardware store to get some more. This isn't about who is in what clan or who posted how many times in C&A. This is getting to be to common to just post non-topic comments. I am a slow reader and had to read two pages of posts when only about four of the posts were relevant to the complaint.

Taking a look at this.

[jltile1]

Guys I ran out of locks so maybe tomorrow I will stop by the hardware store to get some more. This isn't about who is in what clan or who posted how many times in C&A. This is getting to be to common to just post non-topic comments. I am a slow reader and had to read two pages of posts when only about four of the posts were relevant to the complaint.

Taking a look at this.

I sure you hope to see as people did post here to all agree that it's a spurious report. I'm not sure what you would be looking into as players from the game have posted their thought, in my opinion that should be enough. It's not your decision or any out sider looking in to make a call on how big boys play their games. These guys play a lot of games together and if two of them are cheating don't you think shit would hit the fan amongst them. This is a none the less a waist of time to LOOK into. Seems as the OP has beef with cc players and that kinda stuff should not be put up with if you ask me. If he was in the game then I might just spend the time to look into this but this is a mockery of cc and the CA reports to the fullest.

[dkmaster]

OP alerted me to read this thread.

All of the games were started by me as private games, and I invited all the players to the games. So of course I'm interested to know if someone is cheating in my games. I have played often against both these players and I have always regarded them as highly skilled opponents and I have never suspected them of cheating.

When I read the accusations my first impression was that this does not look good for SirJohn and Geots. If the accusations are true, they would not be welcome in future games.
So I studied the logfiles of the games carefully.

Game 12053905 : Every single step in this game is the same style as all the good players play. Antarctica escalating games are a race to the southpole. All good players know that if two players fight early on to break each others bonuses, neither of these two players will have a chance to win.

Game 12053907: OP claims geots reveal their secret alliance when he does not attack in FL4. But of course geots does not attack in FL4. The game is a race to the south pole and the best way to win the game is to avoid early attacks. So he runs around SirJohn, to reach the south pole. As most skilled player would do, against anyone they meet on this map with these settings. Then it is claimed geots moves 2 troops to FL1 to protect from attack from base E. With these settings I have never seen a skilled player move from base E to FL1. That just never happens. So that small stack must have been to protect against SirJohn in case he refused the proposal for a truce. If geots had a secret alliance it makes no sense to lose an extra troop to a cold merciless death.

Anyway, now it gets more interesting. Because the two accusations that really worried me are "SirJohn gladly reduces Silversun's stack & Neutral Sector to make it easier for geots to go through" and "Sirjohn clears his troops off his bases". But OP made a mistake when reading the logfile and this accusations are clearly false. From the log I can see that SirJohn DID NOT clear his bases as claimed, and he didn't even take a spoil on his last turn. What really happened at the end of the game, was that Silversun himself conquered the neutral sector, and then took a shot at the southpole, without coming through. Geots stack was next to silversuns stack and he could see that the stack was gone and therefore realized that Silversun had tried to reach the southpole. So he followed in his footsteps and probably only found a few neutrals left on the southpole, and got through and won the game. Fair and square.

Actually I don't even see how it is possible for someone to find information about how you "reduce" a stack in the logfile. OP claims this was done in this and one more game. This can at best only be a theory. The logfile does not reveal any such information. In this game, I can see that it clearly didn't happen.


Game 12053909 and Game 12000919 : It is correct that they did attack some opponents in this game. But not to break the opponents bonuses. All attacks were done to reach the south pole, and to get troops moved from the base to the stack. Again nothing in the logfile indicates any cheating to the best of my knowledge.


Game 12053894 : Again the accusations in this game worried me a lot, so I read the logfile very carefully to find out what happened. Especially this sounds bad : "geots reduces the neutral that separated SirJohn and himself. Why? There is absolutely no reason to do this, other than cheating."

In this game, I attacked as the first one. I tried to take out an opponent and I failed. It was escalating and SirJohn played after me, so of course he went looking for me and the wounded opponent to collect our spoils. As any good player would do. Instead he found geots once he crossed the bridge. He then had no other choice than take him out. When he did, he cashed spoils and went the other directions. Found me, and got more spoils. Won the game.

Again it is not possible to gather any information in the logfile that proves " geots reduces the neutral". It is nothing more than a suspicion, and only the IT admin of the site may be able to see if it happened or not.

But what did happen was that geots send some troops back to his base. This is an advanced play and a good play in the situation. If he was planning for his friend to take him out next turn, it would be a stupid thing to do as it lowers the winning chance for an attacker. The only reason to make this play is to help geots survive next round and get a shot at winning when it is his turn again.

So again I see nothing in the logfile that indicates that geots knew SirJohn was his neighbour and that they planned to cheat.

*******************

My conclusion is that the original accusations have several flaws. The logfile was misread a couple of times, same goes for normal highranked playes at these maps and also OP claims something happened that he has no possibility to know anything about. Also, I can conclude that if geots and SirJohn was indeed trying to cheat in these 5 games they did a very bad job. Of course if 2 people want to cheat they can gain considerable advantage over the other players.

As mentioned above I can not see anything in the logs, that indicates any cheat from either Geots or SirJohn. So as long as admin doesn't reveal something else not shown in the logs, they are offcourse still very welcome to join my games. I enjoy very much to play very skilled games against both Geots and SirJohn.

[loutil]

I too have played a lot of games with both of them. Like Dk the initial claim concerned me. However, after going through 8 different games I cannot find any evidence of foul play. Many of these types of games, especially Antartica, require some deference to your opponents. Stack, build, cash cards and attack is how you win. Early skirmishes only diminish your chance of success.

[universalchiro]

Human nature is when friends come on CC, is to play against their friends. They will often say, "It's on", or "I'm going to kick your butt", or "you're are going down", yet they are friends and are playing against each other. But when strangers are present and become involved in the fray, it is human nature for those friends that fought against each other, to ban together and mutually fight the strangers. And that is exactly what team play is all about.

Join a doubles, triples or Quadruples game to ally up and fight a common foe. However, to join terminator & standard games, where the assumption is that each player holds equal contempt for each player and each player has an equal shot at winning, yet there are pre-established clan members that are tightly bonded together. Where they even knows their buddies passwords, this is not only frowned upon in terminator and standard play, it's called cheating. When friends join up in terminator and standard games and assure success of friends (fellow clan members) and aid in the detriment of non-clan members; This is cheating.

The evidence shows that geots & SirJohn13 routinely play in the same terminator fog games and aid each other, while hindering others. This is cheating. And goes against the premise of terminator & Standard settings.