Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[DRoZ]

Remember everyone to follow chaps ability... Piling on votes will not help us decide who is scum. As for myself, I am not lying, I was roleblocked last night. Believe me or not, it is up to you. I will say this, now that we have an outed cop our protective roles will be spread thin and I may wind up dying tonight, if that is the case, I would not assume doom to automatically be scum. He has been way too over zealous in his pursuit, not likely for an experienced scum.

[DoomYoshi]

Remember everyone to follow chaps ability... Piling on votes will not help us decide who is scum. As for myself, I am not lying, I was roleblocked last night. Believe me or not, it is up to you. I will say this, now that we have an outed cop our protective roles will be spread thin and I may wind up dying tonight, if that is the case, I would not assume doom to automatically be scum. He has been way too over zealous in his pursuit, not likely for an experienced scum.

This is not an accurate description of my meta.

[strike wolf]

Before we lynch/force sound to claim, you should know I switched him with Diehard last night.

[strike wolf]

Ebwop Rishaed* vote Rishaed

[NoSurvivors]

Before we lynch/force sound to claim, you should know I switched him with Rishead last night.

Well, that's good to know.. lol.. now how do we know you are telling the truth?

unvote

[DoomYoshi]

unvote vote rishaed

In any case, you need to justify your choice strike. Why not switch a player worth protecting?

[jonty125]

Well, vote vote rishaed and my avatar looks nothing like chaps.

[NoSurvivors]

unvote vote rishaed

In any case, you need to justify your choice strike. Why not switch a player worth protecting?

Could be a scum buddy save.. but then of course, it would out 2 mafias in 1 night so.. yeah,

vote rishead

[DoomYoshi]

They both have a splotch of red and white. In my peripheral vision, they are exactly the same.

[strike wolf]

unvote vote rishaed

In any case, you need to justify your choice strike. Why not switch a player worth protecting?

Well, from what I have gathered, the angels have suggested that there is some form of recruiter in this games that can recruit humans but not angels. A bus driver can be fairly effective in preventing certain roles from being recruited (though potentially getting others recruited), so it made sense to me to busdrive a human with a hopefully non-human. Secondly, I didn't want to mess with the actions of Droz as watcher or our doctor (more or less confirmed from the night 3 scene with the sword of peace). I thought after Rodion's actions yesterday there was a good chance that either Droz would watch chap or doc/mafia would assume that it would go down that way and not target Chap. Also that with Chap presumably being watched, JGordon/droz would be protected or at least mafia would assume this was the case (I admit I was wrong on this one especially failing to consider that mafia might have had a role blocker), it at least seemed like a good chance that those three would be protected either in actuality or by mafia wifoming themselves out of targeting them. Greg was also another choice but honestly with his role known I did not think he was that valuable and would have rather seen him get killed by mafia than switch him with another, possibly more valuable role. Honestly my first instinct was to switch him with Aage but I was hoping that Aage would have been targeted by a cop last night. I chose Rishaed because at the time I believed he was human. I basically went after Sound because of this list:

gregwolf (12) ~ Saf, jonty, soundman, violet, aage, JG, Nag, DRoZ jak, ???, Strike, Vodean

Vio-not quite confirmed human.

aage-reason mentioned above.

JG-angel.

Nag-too inactive to make a good candidate

Droz-more or less confirmed watcher (some doubt on alignment but insignificant)

Jak-dead

strike-me

vodean-dead

So that left Jonty, saf and Soundman. I reviewed all three before making my decision and while I started getting more of an impression that Saf was town, neither Jonty nor Sound struck me as particularly town. In the end, I did feel there was a slightly better chance that Jonty was town than sound was and like Aage I thought there was a chance of Jonty being investigated.

As for my actions, I have asked Edocsil if he has them since I do not have my night 1 & 2 actions any more (I want to say I switched Victor with Aage night 1 and commander9 with someone night 2 but I am not 100% sure). He has read my pm but no response so far.

[Rodion]

Sorry for the absence.

1 - Blake's quote (the one I opened D5 with) made me think he could not be a town saint, since he mentioned humans were not town. To me, that meant he was either an angel or a demon (he could also be one of this subverted humans, but I don't quite know how they work), thus I checked him N4 and found out he was not an angel. Blake did prove his role (modposter), but not his alignment (town/mafia). He later explained that his quote came from him not realizing he was actually a human himself. Weird and scummy, but Jak made a similar mistake and proved to be town. Catching people in mistakes is easy, problem is telling the difference between dumb town and scum. Anyway, I'd like to hear people's opinion on Blake, particularly on whether you trust him when he said he "made a mistake in not realizing he was human" (or something like that). Anyway, Blake gets a pass, for now, since we got a cop guilty.

2 - Regarding Droz, the question currently lies on whether scum were given 2 roleblocking powers. I can see that happening, but I can also see that as a fake ("hey, scumbuddy, steal my vote and I'll say I also got roleblocked, thus we'll be able to sneak Chap's roleblock). Anyway, we'll try to sort that out later in the game. Yoshi has a point in the fact that we seem to have plenty investigative powers.

3 - We have our 4th claimed Archangel out of 7. With Saf's WC saying he only has to kill demons, I wonder whether demons only have to kill angels? That could be troublesome...

4 - Rishaed will probably die either way, but he should claim his role just in case something went wrong with Saf/Strike. After Strike posts Edoc's response to his night actions, we can clear people and work from there in deciding which 3 (ideally) players join today's BW.

5 - Could someone PLEASE compile a list of claims so the information is more easily accessible?

[safariguy5]

I'm willing to buy strike's reason for the switch. I also don't see a lot of upside in lying, so I will unvote vote rishaed

[strike wolf]

1. Strike Wolf-Human Busdriver
2. VioIet-Human (ability unclaimed unless I missed it)
3. Safari-Angel Michael-Super JOAT!!!
4. Blake Bowling-Saint Emma of Ludger (Lesum?)-Modposter
5. Rodion-cop-style role
6. Dr. Oz-St. Augustine of Canterbury-watcher
7. Chapcrap-vote sensor
8. Greg-Saraqael-Angel universal mason (confirmed)

I believe that's all of the claimed though I may have forgotten one or two. If they hadn't said it themselves, at least to my knowledge anyways, I left out whether they were angel or human, regardless of how obvious they may or may not have made it anyways. Posting from my phone so it's kind of rushed.

Anyways, I don't think you should trust the 7 archangels argument. Sabriel was an angel but I didn't see anything that listed him as an archangel.

[gregwolf121]

unvote

[Rodion]

I think there is also lliad - doublevoter - Saint Elizabeth. Those are all I remember, so far.

[rishaed]

Well since Scum's doing a pretty good job out there I might as well claim to avoid being lynched. Before I do though I'm pretty sure that there is a Framer out there since I am Bernard of Menthon Saint, and Doc. I don't see how else i could turn up guilty though.

[DoomYoshi]

Claim night actions. Also, we should add who was targetted on which nights to out list. Particularly I want the people who were watched by droz and who cleared his action.

[DoomYoshi]

And Rodion, I definetely don't see an advantage in believing Blake.

[rishaed]

N1: Iliad
N2: Vodean
N3: Mr. squirrel
N4: Strike
That have been my night actions so far in this game N1&N2 were CMS5 and I was rushing to send in my action N3 b/c of flight back to states.
N4 Strike seemed to have a pretty good spotlight on him and since I figured Scum would go after someone close, but not directly in the limelight i doc'd him.

[safariguy5]

Well clearly someone is lying here. However, given that if strike hadn't said anything, I very well may have led a mislynch on soundman (assuming strike is telling the truth), I feel like strike has more credibility in this instance. It's possible rishaed was recruited or something, in which case we may be able to verify some night actions either way. I see no strong evidence that would make me doubt my night action.

[/]

So, we're in a bit of a tight spot, eh?

Retrying the result tonight would be a waste of time, since we likely have a mafia role-blocker it's unlikely that we could come up with a proper plan to block the framer. (assuming there is one)

Although the last golden pantheon game edoc modded did have some non-standard roles, for example a mafia busdriver (me) with a limited reservoir of busdrives that could be used infinitely, perhaps there is a roleblocker with similar conditions, if so it would only be logical to block the watcher and the one being watched, in that case making them use more blocks up on a doc would be good for our cause. (this assuming rishaed himself is not the blocker in question.)

If there is a doc out there who could counterclaim, it may not be ideal for them to do so, as in the long run it would lead to a shorter lifespan for our revealed power roles.

It is best for town to eliminate their threats as fast as possible, and it is in scums best interest to eliminate their threats as fast as possible, doc is a large threat to scum, so if true it is extremely unlikely he would survive very long, simply based on the merits of his abilities, even if scum were tempted to keep him alive as a bluff.

The problem could sort itself out, if true.

And on the other side of the equation, this being a NV game, any scum we hit is a power scum, and as saf says, the evidence is rather solid.


I don't really know Crazymilkshake's meta exceedingly well, could someone more familiar with the subject say whether or not he would protect a mostly inactive claimed double voter and vodean?

[VioIet]

N1: Iliad
N2: Vodean
N3: Mr. squirrel
N4: Strike
That have been my night actions so far in this game N1&N2 were CMS5 and I was rushing to send in my action N3 b/c of flight back to states.
N4 Strike seemed to have a pretty good spotlight on him and since I figured Scum would go after someone close, but not directly in the limelight i doc'd him.

I wonder if Droz would be able to prove or disprove any of this.

[jonty125]

unvote lets get as much info out on the table before we have a consensus.

[NoSurvivors]

Well since Scum's doing a pretty good job out there I might as well claim to avoid being lynched. Before I do though I'm pretty sure that there is a Framer out there since I am Bernard of Menthon Saint, and Doc. I don't see how else i could turn up guilty though.

For some reason, I don't believe you. But whatever, I don't want to be held responsible for lynching a doc lmao. unvote until I can think straight, probably after school.

[aage]

Well since Scum's doing a pretty good job out there I might as well claim to avoid being lynched. Before I do though I'm pretty sure that there is a Framer out there since I am Bernard of Menthon Saint, and Doc. I don't see how else i could turn up guilty though.

I'm kind of surprised at the lack of return accusation.

Also, this:

I don't really know Crazymilkshake's meta exceedingly well, could someone more familiar with the subject say whether or not he would protect a mostly inactive claimed double voter and vodean?

I can't get there, especially protecting Vodean after we lynched gregwolf. Looking at it objectively I would have to vote rishaed because I don't believe that, but rishaed can't defend himself against things he didn't do. I agree we can't lynch without consensus (duh), but there isn't much to discuss. VioIet brought up a good point, I'd be interested in that. Lynching a doctor is still a bad idea, though.

Sorry for my lack of posts, I'm tying off the semester with lots of things that need doing and reports that need writing.