The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

[greenoaks]

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I can't play some other turns while I'm away. Sometimes, as a favor to my sitter, I try to clear the easy turns or the turns in games that are already decided to decrease the sitter's gameload. I understand how this could be abused, so I get why the rule is as it is, but I'm not terribly happy about not being able to help my sitter out while he's helping me.

if 2 people are playing the same account at the same time it is Account Sharing. that is against site rules.

[betiko]

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I can't play some other turns while I'm away. Sometimes, as a favor to my sitter, I try to clear the easy turns or the turns in games that are already decided to decrease the sitter's gameload. I understand how this could be abused, so I get why the rule is as it is, but I'm not terribly happy about not being able to help my sitter out while he's helping me.

if 2 people are playing the same account at the same time it is Account Sharing. that is against site rules.

you make me think of the anoying kid at school trying to get the teacher's attention being more strict and intolerant than anyone. It's like listening to a broken record. Yes we understood, we can't have any intelligent conversation with you, let's move on.


agentcom+1 to your suggestions. All this just needs a bit more flexibility.

[John Deere]

the cheating was so rampant that my flag was changing midturn

LOL you even had to to watch your flag change (which I highly doubt happened) but not take your turns?

midturn, do you understand the word. i'm in games and being told they are foeing me because my flag is changing while we are playing.

the Pack were what many of us here hate. 3 or 4 players playing all games themselves or through puppet accounts.

You are so full of crap greenoaks! You couldnt keep all your games current, you would start speeders at night before you would even take your regular turns. You regularly had 100 + games going. If you want to lie then bring it in another fashion! We at the PACK are not perfect but those are straight up lies! We all play this game and are good at it! If only 3-4 of us were playing puppet accounts then it must only be a couple of us now that a few of our key players arent playing..... Were doing pretty good against TOFU with only a couple players..... Just caused you got booted (due too not taking your turns) doesnt mean you have to lie about us. Have a good day sir!

[greenoaks]

another cheater trying to water down the rules against Account Sharing

[eddie2]

the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules

Not sure what you mean. The clan rules seem to be in line with the site rules (except for Rule #1 which is not a big deal), just put more clearly.

yep i am not wording it very well am i.

ok 2 recent cases cof, josko, both ended up in a ban/warning. this is on the escalating scale of site punishments. but if we were to follow these new clan rules they would not be punishable by c and a moderators. instead they would be dealt with by the clan moderation team who will issue clan war bans etc.

but we have not seen a post from king achilles to confirm this will be followed. example if a case like the previous c and a cases are brought forward will they be passed over to the clan mod teams to be dealt with on a clan war escalating punishment and can we get some confirmation that this will happen.

eddie

I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.

thanks evil so as it stands if you break site sitting rules in clan games you will receive depending on the level of major infraction,

1) a 1 month site ban
2)Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.

so there will be a double punishment for one breach all because of the following statement

Until we get some sort of sitting feature,

we have been getting told for 2 years now there is a sitting feature going to be added. and i am all for the new clan rules but don't like the fact there is going to be punishments from 2 departments for breaching of the rules which your statement is saying evil. like many have said some sitting is on borderline of breaking site rules a tiny little thing can push it over the line..

[agentcom]

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I can't play some other turns while I'm away. Sometimes, as a favor to my sitter, I try to clear the easy turns or the turns in games that are already decided to decrease the sitter's gameload. I understand how this could be abused, so I get why the rule is as it is, but I'm not terribly happy about not being able to help my sitter out while he's helping me.

if 2 people are playing the same account at the same time it is Account Sharing. that is against site rules.

This wasn't at the same time. It was that I was on vacation and had a regular sitter. When I could squeeze some turns in, I would go online and take some. Or I would take the turns from my phone that I could, but my phone isn't fantastic, so it's basically impossible to take turns on large, complex maps on it. As far as I know, we never were on at the same time. But it is possible that happened. My understanding of the sitting rules is that they generally prohibit you from gaining a tactical advantage. And that wasn't what would have happened.

If that's abuse then I guess classify me as another person who inadvertently admitted to sitting abuse in this thread. Maybe Icepack can file a C&A report against me

[betiko]

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I can't play some other turns while I'm away. Sometimes, as a favor to my sitter, I try to clear the easy turns or the turns in games that are already decided to decrease the sitter's gameload. I understand how this could be abused, so I get why the rule is as it is, but I'm not terribly happy about not being able to help my sitter out while he's helping me.

if 2 people are playing the same account at the same time it is Account Sharing. that is against site rules.

This wasn't at the same time. It was that I was on vacation and had a regular sitter. When I could squeeze some turns in, I would go online and take some. Or I would take the turns from my phone that I could, but my phone isn't fantastic, so it's basically impossible to take turns on large, complex maps on it. As far as I know, we never were on at the same time. But it is possible that happened. My understanding of the sitting rules is that they generally prohibit you from gaining a tactical advantage. And that wasn't what would have happened.

If that's abuse then I guess classify me as another person who inadvertently admitted to sitting abuse in this thread. Maybe Icepack can file a C&A report against me

lol don't worry they are writting down all names! I was on holiday for10 days about a month ago. I didn't get signed up for 2 batches of our clan war because I knew I wouldn't be there, nevertheless I still had a few games going on and asked for a clanmate to sit my account (tried to lower the game count as much as possible for my sitter) but occasionally I had wifi in some hotels so I did log in on cc from my phone because I was involved in mafia games in the forum and needed to post (obviously this couldn't be done by my sitter), also because I wanted to check how my cc games were doing. I guess that for mister greenoaks that is a severe abuse to dare log onto my own account while I had an official sitter.

[crispybits]

One thing I would like clarification on if possible is whether there is a time limit on the duration of planned account sits, or any limit on the number of different people allowed to sit an individual account during any single planned sitting period?

Note this isnt about emergency sits, this question is with regards to planned account sits known about in advance.

[eddie2]

One thing I would like clarification on if possible is whether there is a time limit on the duration of planned account sits, or any limit on the number of different people allowed to sit an individual account during any single planned sitting period?

Note this isnt about emergency sits, this question is with regards to planned account sits known about in advance.

i think that is already covered mate.. if it is planned there is no time limit i would just be careful on the day the player is due to return don't play any shots he can take and if he does not return on his due date the 1 hour rule comes into force. as for amount of players having the password there is no rule just do not be the one giving his password out to another player.

[betiko]

One thing I would like clarification on if possible is whether there is a time limit on the duration of planned account sits, or any limit on the number of different people allowed to sit an individual account during any single planned sitting period?

Note this isnt about emergency sits, this question is with regards to planned account sits known about in advance.

i think that is already covered mate.. if it is planned there is no time limit i would just be careful on the day the player is due to return don't play any shots he can take and if he does not return on his due date the 1 hour rule comes into force. as for amount of players having the password there is no rule just do not be the one giving his password out to another player.

also from what I understood there should be only 1 sitter covering for all the turns. I'm not sure if the sitter is not in one of the team games if it's acceptable that one of the teammates plays it or not, but I guess it would not be permitted (pretty shitty rule for the sitter that probably doesn't have that much time to spend everyday taking a friend's turns..)

[crispybits]

So the people that abused the system before (and I'm not accusing any individual of this as it's not my place) are free to keep abusing the system, by having their puppet accounts go afk on planned sits for weeks at a time just after clan war invites are sent and accepted?

This is why I'm anti-sit, not because I have a stick up my ass or I want to be a little Hitler ruining everyone's fun, but because any allowance for casual sitting (until a software solution is coded) is also an allowance for abuse, and there are people that will push the rules as far as they can to gain unfair advantage. A clear "Not allowed. Period." is the only way to prevent this and provide a fair and level playing field for all.

[Nicky15]

Hey Folks. Many people arent reading, I can't blame you, this thread is soooo long. A lot of points that have already been answered are being repeated over and over. Let me clarify a few points.

1st off apologies. My wording was poor before when I said this is a clean slate. I am in no way saying anyone that has committed a major infraction is having their slate wiped clean. This was a simple statement in regards to the many people who obviously were not aware that you cant enter anothers account. In regards to the people who weren't aware and did no real harm I am not keen on getting them thrown to the wolves. Emotions were running high. However now they know if they did it again, we would have no choice but to take action.

Now I will say this again. People are taking this far too seriously, picking holes where there are not any. We simply can't legislate for every eventuality. That is why the common sense rule is here. Life happens and throws curve balls all the time. We are not trying to make things difficult. All of these rules really just bring us all back into line with site rules. These rules are not here to punish the honest and legitimate players . These rules are in place to give us the power to punish the dishonest player trying to gain an advantage.

Let me say again. No one is getting booted off CC for minor things. Let me give you an example of our common sense approach. This is purely an example of how it might go,

Lets try cats case study

However, what about the case where a totally reliable teammate is about to miss a turn at, say, 8 pm their time. It's under an hour, emergency sitting is fine, and so on. While the emergency sitter is taking that turn, s/he notices that several other games have low clocks, expiring in the middle of the night. It is also well known that this particular teammate goes to bed at 10 pm, and would normally play these games with low clocks before going to bed. At 11 pm, the emergency sitter checks on those low games, and finds that they still have not been played, and the AWOL player has not responded to communication attempts. A reasonable person would (a) be concerned for the welfare of their friend, and (b) want to take those turns for their friend, as there is a reasonable expectation that they will be missed.

In this case, lets say you took all of these turns that would expire in the middle of the night and had posted to say you covered each turn.

The Cd Team would check the other players account and determine if what you said was factual. If it was, bearing in mind you have tried to contact him, and got no response then we would accept this and you would not be punished. We would record it in a file however. If this started happening regularly we would speak to you about it.

I will repeat we are not here to punish the honest rule abiding players.

If you don't post to say you have covered a turn, this will always be an infraction. Always make sure you post no matter what time is on the clock, otherwise you wont be able to defend yourself if you have a legitimate reason. The only exception that will be made is when you are sitting for a player you posted in most games but forgot the odd one.

Again if you are legitimately sitting for someone. For example. They have gone for a week away. You cover them for the week. They told you they would be back 5pm Sunday. 8pm Sunday arrives they still haven't returned. You have planned to go to the cinema this evening. What do you!, do you put off your cinema trip so you can take the turns as they expire hour by hour...12am comes they still aren't home. Shucks that means you have to stay up all night, better get the coffee in. NO Of course not! this is another common sense event where you could justify taking the turns. They could well have been delayed on their way home. You can sit until they tell you otherwise.

We are not going to punish sitting with legitimate reasons. Patterns will be questioned however.

A few things that wont be allowed ever. And will earn you a straight infraction. Not posting to say you have covered a turn. Taking turns for someone when they are online taking turns themselves. Covering turns with a big chunk of time left on the clock (when you are not legitimating covering a break)

If you need to use a sitter that is not in a clan, it is your responsibility to make sure they are aware of the clan rules.

You can use more than one sitter if you wish.

Yes someone can hold your password permanently. But be aware what they do with your account will be your responsibility, if they break the rules with your account then you will both be accountable. Only choose a sitter you can trust.

In regards to not entering games when you are going away on a planned vacation. We only want to see available players in games. After all what is the point of being in a game that you aren't going to take the vast majority of you turns in. Not to mention it is not fair on your sitter. Common sense should tell you to run down your games before you go away so not overburden your poor sitter.

If i have missed anything and If anyone wants a point clarified then please feel free to pm me. Please do not pm me with ideas for improvement. Please direct them to your Clan rep, and they can pass them on to the Clan leaders group.

[betiko]

So the people that abused the system before (and I'm not accusing any individual of this as it's not my place) are free to keep abusing the system, by having their puppet accounts go afk on planned sits for weeks at a time just after clan war invites are sent and accepted?

This is why I'm anti-sit, not because I have a stick up my ass or I want to be a little Hitler ruining everyone's fun, but because any allowance for casual sitting (until a software solution is coded) is also an allowance for abuse, and there are people that will push the rules as far as they can to gain unfair advantage. A clear "Not allowed. Period." is the only way to prevent this and provide a fair and level playing field for all.

I don't think any clan has ever done what you are describing (well appart from blitz and thota, it looks close enough but the user was kicked out of CC and the clan doesn't exist anymore). And account sitting under the guidelines described in the OP is allowed wether you like it or not. People have the right to be on vacation, business trips, hospitalized ect with no internet and ask a friend to cover them, mostly if they have worked hard on certain tournaments for monthes ect, why would they deserve to lose every damn game?
On another hand, a player in a team game missing 3 turns gives all his troops and territories to a teammate, which could turn out in an unfair advantage for them. Also, great stuff for everyone to be waiting 3 full days for a player to get kicked out of the game if the guy was just going to be absent for a week by the way..
I just can't see any valid point in your argument. If ever you suspect someone of doing so just make a C&A report and people will get busted if they indded made that crap. But asking to make account sitting completely illegal is just plain dumb. Next step what, people will only be allowed to connect from 1 IP and will get busted for connecting through their phone or the office or what?

[agentcom]

lol don't worry they are writting down all names! I was on holiday for10 days about a month ago. I didn't get signed up for 2 batches of our clan war because I knew I wouldn't be there, nevertheless I still had a few games going on and asked for a clanmate to sit my account (tried to lower the game count as much as possible for my sitter) but occasionally I had wifi in some hotels so I did log in on cc from my phone because I was involved in mafia games in the forum and needed to post (obviously this couldn't be done by my sitter), also because I wanted to check how my cc games were doing. I guess that for mister greenoaks that is a severe abuse to dare log onto my own account while I had an official sitter.

I've done this too with my moderator stuff. Obviously my sitter can't do that for me and I don't want my team to be waiting on me just because I've been banished from logging on to CC by the sitter rules (because I currently have a sitter). I am glad to hear that there is a common sense rule here because I may end up having to defend myself with it someday.

[b]Now I will say this again. People are taking this far too seriously, picking holes where there are not any. We simply can't legislate for every eventuality. That is why the common sense rule is here. Life happens and throws curve balls all the time. We are not trying to make things difficult.

Glad to hear it.

All of these rules really just bring us all back into line with site rules.

But they go above and beyond site rules, no?

The Cd Team would check the other players account and determine if what you said was factual. If it was, bearing in mind you have tried to contact him, and got no response then we would except this and you would not be punished. We would record it in a file however. If this started happening regularly we would speak to you about it.

I like that there's an "attempt to communicate" thing here. You just have to watch out for people that make feeble attempts to communicate. For example, if I send a PM to someone, they're generally not going to be notified about it until they log on in which case they can take the turn anyway. If I'm waiting for a response to a PM, then that could potentially give me leeway to say "But I didn't get a response." Of course, I didn't

If you don't post to say you have covered a turn, this will always be an infraction.

I think that this is just good practice. Glad it's part of the clan rules. And this is an example of clan rules being stricter than site rules.

Again if you are legitimately sitting for someone. For example. They have gone for a week away. You cover them for the week. They told you they would be back 5pm Sunday. 8pm Sunday arrives they still haven't returned. You have planned to go to the cinema this evening. What do you!, do you put off your cinema trip so you can take the turns as they expire hour by hour...12am comes they still aren't home. Shucks that means you have to stay up all night, better get the coffee in. NO Of course not! this is another common sense event where you could justify taking the turns. They could well have been delayed on their way home. You can sit until they tell you otherwise.

Glad to hear this as this is one of the things that I was worried about. I would still like these "bigger" exceptions actually codified into the rules. I wrote up basically what I hope those exceptions are and I would include these in the actual rules. No need to write about every unique case, but some of the exceptions will come up more often than others and should be mentioned.

Patterns will be questioned however.

Good. I'm glad to hear that this doesn't sound like a witch hunt. I hope it doesn't turn into one.

[Funkyterrance]

I'm confused by the term "witch hunt" which is being used so liberally in regards to this subject. Why is trying to prevent abuse which has been proven to have happened in the past considered a witch hunt? Witch hunts are considered overreactive because witches as portrayed historically don't exist but rule benders do exist. I don't think anyone is actually arguing that someone be banned for a minor infraction unless it's habitual/intentional.

[eddie2]

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

[greenoaks]

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

no, post it in the games i am playing. not in a thread somewhere else i am not going to read

[IcePack]

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

Some players never look @ forums and would never know the turns are being sat. Copy and paste isn't THAT hard

[agentcom]

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

Some players never look @ forums and would never know the turns are being sat. Copy and paste isn't THAT hard

Yeah, but for long term absences, the people who actually need to know, i.e. the war organizers, would know. I would think that would suffice. But I can see how this would make it a little harder for the clan mods running their random checks, because they would have to check games AND any current war forum. That could be a pain for them.

If I was sitting for someone, I would think it would be easier just to post in chat. So, I would do that and don't really care whether I could post in the thread instead.

I'm confused by the term "witch hunt" which is being used so liberally in regards to this subject. Why is trying to prevent abuse which has been proven to have happened in the past considered a witch hunt? Witch hunts are considered overreactive because witches as portrayed historically don't exist but rule benders do exist. I don't think anyone is actually arguing that someone be banned for a minor infraction unless it's habitual/intentional.

I was saying I'm glad this IS NOT looking like a witch hunt. It could be one if they put in a bunch of strict rules that caught the innocent as well as the guilty. That's pretty much the definition of a witch hunt. But it looks like they're very much trying to avoid punishing innocent behavior.

[Funkyterrance]

I was saying I'm glad this IS NOT looking like a witch hunt. It could be one if they put in a bunch of strict rules that caught the innocent as well as the guilty. That's pretty much the definition of a witch hunt. But it looks like they're very much trying to avoid punishing innocent behavior.

Yeah tbh, I wasn't referring to your post but I can see how it must have looked that way lol. That's a boo-boo on my part. Your use of the term just reminded me.
Earlier in this thread it was implied that these new rules were a complete overreaction and more or less stirring up a "witch hunt". Ya know, farmers with pitchforks and all that jazz.

[Nicky15]

thankyou nicky,

you keep on saying must post in each game but for holidays or time away if something comes up can we not just post it in the challenge threads, when competitions are running full throttle some players can be in up to 10 - 15 games and would be easier if you could just post there with the players return date and who is sitting for him.

Yes this is fine. Something like. eddie2 taking turns for player A. He is away for the week., the player A posts when he is back. Totally acceptable and a good idea for everyone.

[JustCallMeStupid]

Where are the old rules that say you cant cover someones turn if they have 4 hrs left on their turn and they messaged u earlier in the day that if the turn gets under 4 hours to take the turn and follow any team instructions in chat? Thanks for the link. U can post it on my wall too if you feel like it.

[GoranZ]

Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

Edit: Solved, ty

it seems to me a lot of players believe missing turns is the end of the world and sitters are a god given right.

perhaps all account sitting should be banned. no exceptions. you take your turn or it is missed.

+1

The simplest way to solve the problem imo

Yes it will be unpopular, so what? In the short term the site loses a few members (a decent chunk of which will be members who are fairly loose about following the rules anyway - aka CHEATS). In the long term there is no controversy, no big arguments, and the players that are left that are willing to play by the rules can play based on honest individual merit.

So if you guys are sick you don't go to job, no one from your colleagues is replacing you? I think that you should turn ON your brains from time to time.

[agentcom]

Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

No, you are allowed to text someone and have them cover for you. That was one of my questions and it seems like that then falls under the normal sitting rules of being able to cover you until you come back. It's my understanding that the sitter doesn't have to wait for each turn to get under an hour. I'm sure someone can quote one of the mods on this.

One very specific question: Is it CD team job to propose sitting rules? according to me NO.

Whose Job is then? The Cds consulted with a group of members from across the clan world, involving clans from every level. The Cd team consulted with Admin and multi hunters who ultimately signed off on these rules.

How will you enforce these new rules... you will ask C&A team to check games and compare times?
How will you enforce these rules to a sitter that is not part of any clan(he doesn't event care what is happening in clan world)? So new clan rules wont apply for that sitter, or you plan to punish the sitting player for something he didn't do?

P.S. Since I do not agree with these new rules(unless they are changed) I don't have any plans to follow them. I will ask my sitter to not write down in game chat when I was supervised and I will let CD team to figure out when(and if) I was supervised(I don't plan to ask someone to stay awake for a single minute not all night). Feel free to catch me and punish me according to the offense I will make.

They just said you're responsible for your sitter's actions. So either tell anyone who watches your games not to take turns until they're down to an hour unless you've told them you needed to be sat. In either case (whether advance notice or not) let your sitter know to post in chat that they did the turn.

Which brings me to ... I do hope there is a grace period for the announcement. If someone sat my account and forgot to post, a lot of times I will post when I get back that so-and-so took the last two turns. Also, sometimes people accidentally post their announcement into team chat and a teammate who notices it relays the message into public chat. I think all this falls under the common sense aspect, but I just want to make sure.

[GoranZ]

Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

8 A.M. my time(11 P.M. for my sitter), I have clan games coming in in 3 and 5 hours, out of a sudden i don't have internet connection and I'm getting info that I wont have in the next 8 hours. Currently I was able to send SMS to my clanmates and they could have supervised me... with new set of rules this will be illegal unless they are awake all night!

No, you are allowed to text someone and have them cover for you. That was one of my questions and it seems like that then falls under the normal sitting rules of being able to cover you until you come back. It's my understanding that the sitter doesn't have to wait for each turn to get under an hour. I'm sure someone can quote one of the mods on this.

Not verification here... on the first page. I was just reading 15 pages.
How will CD team verify SMS or skype? (easy Photoshopable)