Magyarország [Quenched]

[Jatekos]

Very good progress, I like the recent updates.
I do not have any suggestions regarding the gameplay for now. I'll have to play a couple of games on the map first.

On the other hand, I still have suggestions about the graphics, if you don't mind.
-The yellow texts seem to be too emphatic and a bit distractive to me. Yellow is good for the title, as it has to stand out, but the rest of the texts should be less highlighted. I am wondering if you could use text colours that are less distractive, but still visible.
I think it would worth a try, if a dark/light shade of the actual background would better look than the current yellow texts. E.g. light green text on the green lane, brownish text below the flag, black/grey text on the white lane of the flag. I think it would match more with the colours of the map and would look better.
- The colour of the flag could be a bit lighter, as the middle lane is rather greyish than white at the moment.
- I would also suggest to put the "3" of the "3 million Hungarian" to the next row (i.e. "3 million"), so that the number of armies on Vas are further from the number in the legend.

[koontz1973]

White in the flag will look greyish as this is the highlights. Made it lighter for you, but do not want to go for more as it looks bright against the other muted colours.
Text to white as it is a neutral colour but will look at it some more. Having the text different colours is a big no no so it has to be one colour. Toned it down and moved the three as well.
Keep the suggestions coming as I would like to play this as well.
V9.6

Click image to enlarge.

[Oneyed]

your story is still bullshit. the sample how much Hungarians look at the right to independence of another nations.

Oneyed

Oneyed, what are you talking about?

"the annexed lands are given to the victors" - Czechoslovakia, Croats/Serbs or Romania were victors? tell to people right, the victors (Great Britain, France, Russia) just gived independence to nations which were annexed to Kingdom of Hungary.

"displacing more than 3 milion Hungarian nationals" - you mean Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Romanians as Hungarian nationals?

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

your story is still bullshit. the sample how much Hungarians look at the right to independence of another nations.

Oneyed

Oneyed, what are you talking about?

"the annexed lands are given to the victors" - Czechoslovakia, Croats/Serbs or Romania were victors? tell to people right, the victors (Great Britain, France, Russia) just gived independence to nations which were annexed to Kingdom of Hungary.

"displacing more than 3 milion Hungarian nationals" - you mean Slovaks, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Romanians as Hungarian nationals?

Oneyed

Hungarian nationals, these where people that where Hungarian and lived in the regions outside of Hungary proper.

The annexed lands where doled out by the victors as set within the treaty. The treaty was negotiated by the USA, England, France, Italy and Japan. The treaty ratified the borders that had been taken by force (Romania and Serbs, Croats, Czechoslovak legions) and in some cases, negotiated before the treaty.

[nolefan5311]

Just a quick suggestion to lower the Romania bonus by 1 and the Austria bonus by 1. The rest of the non-CSL bonuses look good. The spreadsheet indicates that the Italy bonus should be .33, lol, but being that it's an autodeploy, I think that solves the problem. I understand that for the purposes of the map it needs to be its own distinct bonus but I will get with ian to see what he thinks.

A very important question that I need answered before I can run any more of the bonus spreadsheets...do the CSL bonuses completely override the other bonuses? I.E., if I hold Tiszantul + Austria, the bonus yields a total of +9 (+2 & +7). Or is it +7 total? Perhaps I am being dense here, but putting something in the legend like, "Hold any Saved Land Bonus and (list the bonuses) and (added at the bottom) yields the above bonus in addition to the Saved Land bonus", or something along those lines. Once I get this answer I can run the spreadsheet.

One issue I see myself running across is that you might want to think about separating the CSL bonuses. I don't have the exact numbers yet because of the above issue, but for instance, holding Dunantul + Serbs & Croats requires me to hold 18 regions for a bonus of either +12 or +17. Whereas I can hold Tiszantul + Czechslovakia (12 regions) for either a +10 or +12. What are your thoughts on this?

[koontz1973]

The consolidated land bonuses over ride the Saved land and Shattered land bonuses. It is worked out by shattered land(?) + largest saved land(5).
So with each part of Hungary
Austria(2) + Dunántúl(5) = 7. This gives no extra troops.
Austria(2) + Duna-Tisza köze(4) = 7. One extra troop.
Austria(2) +Tiszántúl(2) = 7. Three extra troops.

I wanted to keep the CLB the same for each part of Hungary. So as above, the bonus does not change depending on what part of Hungary you hold (players then need to work out which part of the three you have). It doubles when you hold any two parts of Hungary, so using above, it becomes 14 and the numbers equal out. But it will not triple.

Austria(2) + Dunántúl(5) + Duna-Tisza köze(4) = 14. Three extra troops.
Austria(2) + Dunántúl(5) + Tiszántúl(2) = 14. Five extra troops.
Austria(2) + Duna-Tisza köze(4) + Tiszántúl(2) = 14. Six extra troops.

Running spread sheets will not really work for this one as the CLB stays the same for any part of Hungary. Should make it interesting battle ground of the Tiszántúl.

Hope that helps.



Will lower Romania by one.

[koontz1973]

Lowered Romania by one.
Changed wording in legend for the consolidated bonuses. Hopefully this is now clear.
Moved the Budapest AD to another part so it is not confused with the saved land bonuses.

Click image to enlarge.

[nolefan5311]

Nice changes Koontz. Austria also needs to be lowered by one as well as the spreadsheet suggests it should be at 1.25 since you only have to defend two regions to hold it.

I think the only issue I have left is that holding Tiszantul is significantly easier than holding Dunantul or Duna-Tisza koze so perhaps you might want to think about changing the consolidated land bonus for holding it. Perhaps you might want to use three separate boxes in the legend so that it can be changed.

And just to clarify...regardless of whether or not I hold Tiszantul or Dunantul, if I hold the Poland bonus (5 total regions with Tiszuntal, and 9 total regions for Dunantul), it's a +6. I agree that it makes an interesting battle ground of Tiszantul, but as it is, Tiszantul probably needs a region added, or to be differentiated from the other two Saved Land bonuses somehow.

[Dukasaur]

Very nice!

The white lettering on these bright coloured backgrounds is hard to see. Could you try a version with black lettering?

[koontz1973]

nolefan, lowering Austria to a 1 does not sit right with me as you then have 3 bonus regions at +1, but all at different sizes. Italy (1 territ), Poland (2 territs) and Austria (3 territs). There seems to me a need to have a slight difference between the bonuses for these three.

If that does not work for you, then how about a bridge between Moson and Pozony? I could then move the bridge between Bars-Gyor to Bars-Veszprem. This then might justify the increase to a +2 for Austria slightly more. (Will put bridge in if OK)

Added Debrecen to Tiszuntal to justify the bonus structure as you said this would work. But I lowered the neutral in that region to a 2. It is only there to stop the drops and with the increase by one, a lowering of that neutral seems OK.

Having the legend make the difference between the 3 parts of Hungary for the Consolidated bonus might cause confusion with players.

Dukasaur, not all wording but one of each region. This any better? Will bung the glows back in if yes.

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

Sod it, went ahead and made the changes anyway.
Black text and yellow glow.
Consgrad neutral to 2.
Bridges moved.
Left bonus numbers as is (previous post explains why).

Click image to enlarge.

[nolefan5311]

It's still showing the bonus should be 1.75, which is much closer, but usually we ask people to round down. Maybe you can add a connection from Vas to Varasd? That would put the suggested bonus value right at 2 and you should be good to go.

I really like the new text. Looks really good.

And I like adding the additional territory to Tiszantul. With it being 4 territories, and 51 total territories on the map, a player has a .95% chance of dropping that bonus so you don't need to bother putting a neutral there if you don't want to. You might even think about increasing that bonus to 3. Your bonus for Duna-Tisza koze is still good at 4. Maybe you can add a connection from Bacs-kiskun or Pest to Bekes or Csongrad to further facilitate entry into Tiszantul and movement across the Saved Lands? Right now there are 4 entry points into Tiszuntal from the East but only 1 from the West.

[koontz1973]

It's still showing the bonus should be 1.75, which is much closer, but usually we ask people to round down. Maybe you can add a connection from Vas to Varasd? That would put the suggested bonus value right at 2 and you should be good to go.

Could I ask you for me not to add that connection. I believe this would harm Austria as it would become to open and really hard to hold in the early game and with it being able to be attacked by 3 of the larger bonuses, even harder to hold in the mid to late game. And the opposite effect of not being able to get and hold 3 of the larger bonuses becomes a problem to.

Will keep the neutral as it makes it a 100% of not dropping the bonus. But will lower it to a 1 neutral. But I will raise that bonus to a three though.

Will add the bridge between Bacs and Csonsgrad as well. Want to keep Bekes as a territ that is safe.

Click image to enlarge.

[Jatekos]

Please update the name of the region that you that you are referring to as Debrecen, as Debrecen is a city. I would suggest calling it Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg or Szabolcs-Szatmár (in case you want to shorten it), as that is the proper name of the county around that area.

[koontz1973]

Done but shortened it to just the first word.

Click image to enlarge.

[nolefan5311]

koontz, how do you feel about permanently coding another two regions as starting neutrals? Doesn't matter which ones, it's just that with 47 starting regions, each player in 2 and 3 player games will begin with 15 regions, which isn't good. I think we're going to let you run with the +2 for Austria, but let ian confirm that. Otherwise, you're pretty close to the stamp.

[koontz1973]

My count has 48 starting regions. But no problem with coding another 2 neutrals in. I will put those ones right at the edge. Lika-Krabava (Serb) + Haromszek (Romania).

This will not destroy the flow of the map.

[iancanton]

nice work so far, koontz. to reach 44 starting regions, u need to lose 3 starting regions. will u consider merging two of the romanian border regions? if austria is +2 and tiszantúl is +3, then dunantúl and czechoslovakia seem undervalued at +5; perhaps increase both to +6 or, as nolefan has already suggested, decrease austria to +1? italy currently gives more troops than poland when held with saved land, since the auto-deploy is additional, so the italy consolidated bonus needs to be less than that for poland. for some reason, u have two regions called torontál.

ian.

[koontz1973]

nice work so far, koontz. to reach 44 starting regions, u need to lose 3 starting regions. will u consider merging two of the romanian border regions?

Merged 2.

if austria is +2 and tiszantúl is +3, then dunantúl and czechoslovakia seem undervalued at +5; perhaps increase both to +6 or,

+6 now.

as nolefan has already suggested, decrease austria to +1?

Please no.

italy currently gives more troops than poland when held with saved land, since the auto-deploy is additional, so the italy consolidated bonus needs to be less than that for poland.

Sorted that out by lowering the CB for Italy.

for some reason, u have two regions called torontál.

ian.

Sorted.
With the increase to Dunantuls bonus, this has increased all of the CBs by one as well.
Put in the two neutrals at a 1 in my preferred regions.

Click image to enlarge.

[iancanton]

if no-one has further comments, then the map will be stamped for gameplay in the next couple of days.

ian.

[Jatekos]

May I have one more suggestion about the graphics? I like the black region names with the yellow glow, I think they suite very well to the colours of the zones. The legend on the left-hand side and the legend in Hungarian just below the map could be a bit more different from the region names though. I'm not sure what would be the best fit (you could try e.g. a light brown glow that would match with the background of the text boxes), but I feel that the map would look better and even more organized if that 2 paragraphs of legend would be more distinct from the region names.

[y2manypbr]

Hi, just a color blind guy here that takes a look at maps, this map looks good to me. Not to be ny final voice for the color blinded but to me, looks good, thanks

[iancanton]

koontz, keep an eye out for what happens to the n1 regions when we reach beta, in case player 1 (in 2-player games) can consistently capture them on turn 1 with advantage. in the meantime, we can move our focus to graphics!



ian.

[koontz1973]

Good point ian about the neutrals. And thanks for the stamp.

[koontz1973]

Had to increase the size a tad to fit everything in. Moved the map down. Added things, moved things and played around with things.

Click image to enlarge.