Labyrinth [Quenched]

[army of nobunaga]

Unless I am incorrectly reading this, landing a corner starting area is going to be a huge +

[koontz1973]

Unless I am incorrectly reading this, landing a corner starting area is going to be a huge +

It will and wont be. For any game of less than 4 players, each one will start at the corner so any advantage is negated.

For any game over 4 players, the neutrals can be adjusted to allow some semblance of safety. So K3 neutral can go higher to provide a block. So the starting positions in that corner (J1,N1) can attack each other but not straight away. N1 can go for the dead warriors while J1 will go for the sirens.

Have a think about the neutral values and let me know what you think is good and where.

But when you consider that from a corner, you have a more limited style of attack as well. Meaning, that in a corner, you only have one way to go.

The +2 auto deploy should also stop players going straight for the slave entrances.

I was thinking of having the slaves start at 3 troops, so with the +2, you get 5 to go forward with.

[nebsmith]

If you up the neutrals on the dead warriors that will help keep the slave entrances apart for a while.
Putting up K3/T3 & K14/D14 would work too.

[koontz1973]

I believe I found a solution to the corner territs being stronger. Added 2 more of the Pegasus territs, which can attack in a clockwise direction only. This gives the corner entrances less strength as now two can attack them.
Changed the weapons and food bonuses, is this a wise idea or should I go back to the original idea?

Click image to enlarge.

To Do list.
Look at placement of weapons.
Placement of traps.
Placement of food.
Neutral values.

If you up the neutrals on the dead warriors that will help keep the slave entrances apart for a while.
Putting up K3/T3 & K14/D14 would work too.

Upping the neutrals on the dead warriors would also mean an increase of bonus. Thus, first one with good dice, gets one and has an advantage.

[nebsmith]

With the weapons bombarding I think you should change the symbol to spears.
Also remove I3 and E14 as they would give an advantage to the 2 nearby slave traps.
maybe replace them with food and add 3 more food on A3, N3 & N16

get rid of the food on M5 and replace it with a weapon.

Put 2 more food at I7 and F10

I like the idea of the weapons bombarding but I see a problem with the regions near corner slave entrances being more vulnerable and it is hard to see where they could be placed to bombard around the centre entrances in the same way.

How about
go back to the earlier bonus for swords.
have a territory 2 away from each entrance that is both swords and food - A14 for example

Have other swords at L5, L12, C5 C12 & L7, F7, C10, H10

drop the food on M5
Other food at A9, C8, K9, N8


Or
go back to the earlier bonus for swords.
have a territory 2 away from each entrance that is both swords and food - A14 for example

Have other swords at L5, L12, C5 C12
Have ranged weapons at L7, F7, C10, H10

drop the food on M5

Other food at A9, C8, K9, N8

[koontz1973]

nebsmith, thanks, that is a great help, but I think I got slightly confused so if I have this wrong, let me know. Each starting position now has a food within two territs and all 8 now have to go the same distance for the three (for a bonus).

Swords will be changed to spears (next update) and have reduced there range to 3. Is that wise? I have left a slight disparity between the starting territs and the swords. This will give a clue to players in fog games and stop the starting positions being completely the same. It might force players to change tactics depending on there start.

Click image to enlarge.

[nebsmith]

Almost what I had in mind.

The food near the Starting positions would also have a sword on the same territory.

Swords on B4 and L12 would be removed

The 4 central swords and the other food stay as they are.

The bonuses would be for holding 3 swords or 3 food

Spears with a range of 3 or 4 at D8 and K9
That way up to six different players could hold a food or sword bonus.

But maybe your idea of a deliberate disparity in starting positions is a better one. But I don't think you can have bombard weapons close to only 2 start points. So I think if you go with the disparity it should be along with the bonus for holding 3 swords

[koontz1973]

Taken the swords and moved them. But not onto the same squares as the food. This might cause some confusion later but it can be adjusted if it is OK. But each SP now has food and weapon. I changed the weapons to +3 for 5 held and the food stays at +1 for 3 held. The spears are where you said with a range of 3. This sounds good at it allows to hit over the long walls. Should be fun in fog games.

Click image to enlarge.

I am thinking of changing the sirens. Remove the 2 central dead warriors and have these 2 areas for them. Have them, with only a 1 neutral for the 4 squares but the bonus would be only 2. Then where I have them now, put in another trap. Any one like this idea?

[nebsmith]

That could work, I think it provides a better balance with the Sirens moved to the central Dead warriors

but with the neutrals at only 1 the traps on H6 & G9 would have to be quite big to slow down the route to Hades for the centre start points.
Have you dropped the idea of losing conditions for some of the traps because you could use them H6 & G9

You would need to replace the Sirens with a large neutral to keep the middle starting points apart too.

Actually what would work is keep the sirens where they are but have it so you cannot attack from a Siren - the Allure. Maybe you could keep the sirens as the extra bonus for the centre starts would balance the extra movement form Pegasus for the corner starts.

Have you considered having an Auto-deploy on the Spears ?

[chapcrap]

So many components. Every time there is an update, my head gets blown.

[nolefan5311]

So many components. Every time there is an update, my head gets blown.

Agreed. However, it does appear this is close to the Stamp so I will go ahead and get it stickied.

[koontz1973]

nebsmith, you are right, lowering the neutrals for the new sirens would allow the centre to have easier access to Hades. Kept the dead warriors. I like the idea of the sirens not being able to attack though and is in. Auto deploy for the spears would make them too powerful IMO so it is left out. If more want it then it can go in but I would suggest it as a one only and then also add two more. Not dropped the idea of a losing condition trap, but have not found a way to make it work yet. Symbol and wording for the legend makes this one a lot harder to fit in.

chapcrap, I hope that is a nice way to say you like.

Thanks nole for the sticky.

I think the components for this one are pretty much finalised now. Anything new can go onto level 2.

Click image to enlarge.

Lets have a look at numbers. Neutrals, starting troop amount, reinforcements.

Impassable walls. Remove any of the blocks? Keep thinking of removing (D7/10)(K7/10)(F&I 5)(F&I 12.Not sure if this would make it to open but it is worth thinking about.

Graphics, hope you like the new sirens. I think I am in love.
Anything you lot want changed, better to tell me now than in final forge.

[nolefan5311]

Perhaps you can make the Pegasus border the Sirens? Starting on the J or Epsilon starting positions could be a pretty big advantage being closer to more possible bonuses, so I think you either need to make them more accessible from the corner points, or perhaps give some sort of bonus for the Pegasus.

What does "Medusa gaze turns all to stone" mean? That troops that are positioned there are stuck there?

I also think there are too many trap doors positioned in the Alpha and Pi rows. Maybe move them more towards the center of the map. It seems to be another disadvantage for the starting corner positions.

As far as impassables, I think it would be a little more cool to remove them from C6 /C11 and L6/L11 to add another path, instead of adding to the cluster already there.

As far as bonuses, I think because the map is small and there's a ton of bonus potential, it might be worth thinking about getting rid of the region bonus. Just an idea, I don't know how you feel about that.

[koontz1973]

With pegasus bordering the sirens, how about removing the wall at H3 and G14. Put a pegasus into those two territs so only one from the centre SP have easy access to it. Again, this adds a little disparity to the SP which is not always a bad thing.

Medusa gaze turns all to stone = killer neutral. Tried to keep the wording within the realms of the world. Any ideas?

A8 + N9 traps, move them to? or just remove them.

C6 /C11 and L6/L11 Will remove these, good idea.

I like region bonuses as it will not kill of a player when he is hit by hades. But if it is not wanted, out it will come.

[nolefan5311]

With pegasus bordering the sirens, how about removing the wall at H3 and G14. Put a pegasus into those two territs so only one from the centre SP have easy access to it. Again, this adds a little disparity to the SP which is not always a bad thing.

Hmm. I don't know if that really solves the problem I was envisioning, as adding another bonus to the center of the map only increases the possible bonuses for the center start positions. As is, I think the corner start positions are at a disadvantage, both bonus wise and the positioning of some of the trap doors (more on that below).

Medusa gaze turns all to stone = killer neutral. Tried to keep the wording within the realms of the world. Any ideas?

Hmm. I think you sort of need to be explicit in that it's a killer neutral. Or perhaps you don't make it a killer neutral. As is, having to kill 4 men to receive a +2 bonus and then it being a killer neutral, I don't know if anyone would bother taking it as they could only collect once then would be forced to take out 4 more neutrals.

A8 + N9 traps, move them to? or just remove them.

I was thinking more about moving the Pi IV and Pi XIII and A IV and A XIII more to the center of the map. Perhaps move them to Epsilon V and XII and J V and XII so that each player has to cross at least one of them to get to Hades. The positioning of most of them has me confused, and I'm not sure how integral you want them to be in the gameplay.

I like region bonuses as it will not kill of a player when he is hit by hades. But if it is not wanted, out it will come.

This is completely up to you, I was just throwing it out there. You make a good point though.

[koontz1973]

Hmm. I don't know if that really solves the problem I was envisioning, as adding another bonus to the center of the map only increases the possible bonuses for the center start positions. As is, I think the corner start positions are at a disadvantage, both bonus wise and the positioning of some of the trap doors (more on that below).

Pegasus has no bonus. It just allows you to move around the outside of the board.

Hmm. I think you sort of need to be explicit in that it's a killer neutral. Or perhaps you don't make it a killer neutral. As is, having to kill 4 men to receive a +2 bonus and then it being a killer neutral, I don't know if anyone would bother taking it as they could only collect once then would be forced to take out 4 more neutrals.

Kept the killer neutral and changed the wording. Lowered the neutral to a 3 though. As you said, it is a higher neutral but players can go around it if they wanted to.

I was thinking more about moving the Pi IV and Pi XIII and A IV and A XIII more to the center of the map. Perhaps move them to Epsilon V and XII and J V and XII so that each player has to cross at least one of them to get to Hades. The positioning of most of them has me confused, and I'm not sure how integral you want them to be in the gameplay.

Will remove these 4 and place somewhere else. I wanted them differently at the start of the map but for now they stay at a -1 bonus. I want to give each player at least two choices to get to hades. A quick way with the trap and a slightly longer way without. But that was the way when it was a losing condition. Now it has changed to a negative bonus so they can almost become random. I would like to keep the traps in some form as they where integral to this period of time and as well as the stories this borrows from.

The traps you say to remove, no one would force a player to take them, they can go for the bonus of dead warriors. It is more neutrals so slower in getting through. Thus, the idea of a quick dangerious way, or a slower safer way. Both have pitfalls and advantages.

[army of nobunaga]

you are going to think I am crazy, but I would make this a 10 person map by adding a start at the top and at the bottom.

This map could support 10 players and if the update ever came you would have the first 10 person map. I think adding the top and bottom starting position would add a lot of depth too.


Other than that crazy idea, I really like where this is going atm. You are really making a lot of innovating maps.

[chapcrap]

you are going to think I am crazy, but I would make this a 10 person map by adding a start at the top and at the bottom.

This map could support 10 players and if the update ever came you would have the first 10 person map. I think adding the top and bottom starting position would add a lot of depth too.


Other than that crazy idea, I really like where this is going atm. You are really making a lot of innovating maps.

Have you seen Clandemonium?

[army of nobunaga]

you are going to think I am crazy, but I would make this a 10 person map by adding a start at the top and at the bottom.

This map could support 10 players and if the update ever came you would have the first 10 person map. I think adding the top and bottom starting position would add a lot of depth too.


Other than that crazy idea, I really like where this is going atm. You are really making a lot of innovating maps.

Have you seen Clandemonium?

Dont even get me started on that one...

I guess it is 10 person capable, but who would play it?


edit : but yeah I did forget about that one.

edit 2 - man this was just a "that would be cool" thing. I seriously doubt Koontz wants to rework the map in this sort of manner.

[koontz1973]

Already been suggested to have this as a 12 person map, and you are right, reworking this one is an option but not one I want. But I have started working out level two which has 12 starting positions on it.

[army of nobunaga]

Already been suggested to have this as a 12 person map, and you are right, reworking this one is an option but not one I want. But I have started working out level two which has 12 starting positions on it.

nice man, and I figured as much.

The thing about a 12 man map with 12 starting positions is that I think it would be COOL to play with 5 -7 men, because there is so much more depth in figuring out if you want to go after more bonus or not in empty starting areas.

[lostatlimbo]

Cool idea and interesting execution. Could be fun.

My first instinct is that the name Greek Games = ancient Olympic games.

The monsters/theme seems a lot more Sinbad/original Clash of the Titans. I think you should embrace that theme over the loose association to ancient greece. It fits your graphics style well.

Myths & Monsters would be a cool title.

Would be cool if you could work in Cyclops as well. Probably more applicable than Hades. If I'm not mistaken, Hades had little or nothing to do with these other creatures.

$.02

[nebsmith]

I don't think you should reposition anything - you just need to make the 2 traps on the quick route to Hades big enough to slow players down.
The way the neutrals are set now the corner starts can get to hades by going through 12 territories with 14 neutrals and pick up a bonus of 6 from the Dead warriors on the way.
The center starts are - for the closest - 7 territories + the trap with 9 neutrals and a 6 Bonus, so if you make the center traps start at 10 neutral that will even things out.
The center start points can go the long way round and if they do they are the same distance away as the corners.

You could make the other traps 5 neutral.

[chapcrap]

Already been suggested to have this as a 12 person map, and you are right, reworking this one is an option but not one I want. But I have started working out level two which has 12 starting positions on it.

nice man, and I figured as much.

The thing about a 12 man map with 12 starting positions is that I think it would be COOL to play with 5 -7 men, because there is so much more depth in figuring out if you want to go after more bonus or not in empty starting areas.

Also, KC2 has 10 positions...

Anyway, I agree with neb.

[nolefan5311]

Let's go ahead and get this moved to the MFW. Congrats on the first stamp koontz!