MLP: Friendship is MAFIA! ENDGAME: DISCORD & PINKIE WIN!

[pmchugh]

I won't deny that, but i'm not exactly consistently in there, posting a lot. Kind of like Bruce. But I don't exactly know what to say about what pmchugh did, this really is only my 3rd or fourth game on the forums. I guess I should post more, you know, to learn better... and I can't exactly say i'm not the only one barely posting, because i'd look scummy trying to divert attention. (Yes, I play epicmafia, however, I play on sandbox, where 95% of the games are trolls where everyone relies 100% on power roles).

Epic mafia is completely different ball game from this esp sandbox lol, but forum mafia is much more fun cause I can analyse things 12 million times Also IMO the more you post the more you learn even for long term players.

Anyway I would still be interested to hear if you have even a slight fos on anyone at this point?

You are quite right about the other players hiding. I am would like to hear from /, he gave me an FOS and then ducked out of the conversation. Some people may disagree with my tactics but I don't see why anyone would believe I am mafia.

Also I don't believe haggis has contributed anything so far, so it would be nice if he could chime in with an FOS or at least a talking point to get us going.

Fine, you am will hear from me then.
hmmm, I'm not sure, I take strategy from mafiascum with a grain of salt personally, here on CC we try not to make our days last for months on end, so voting the first scummy thing to come around is not a bad thing, I don't really get into metagaming too much if it's not completely obvious, so I personally wouldn't go a route like you claim to have chosen. Also I believe players change, and sometimes get frustrated with a deadlock and just try to get something done, so suggesting a random lynch isn't some out of the field "lynch me mafia, I am a noob" tactic like you claim, I simply found it suspect because you seemed to try to play it off as some kind of super obvious sarcastic bait.

Now I also notice you dropped said catch almost immediately, implying it wasn't such a thought out foolproof move, it really does seem to me like you made a mistake and are trying to play it off with an excuse that you played off just as quickly.
Eh, I'm not sure if it's really a scum tell, but I honestly think it's at the very least a ploy to get the heat off of yourself, which does get me curious. I think I'll throw out a vote since you're totally killing to joke vote atmosphere here.

Unvote Vote PMC

So you put me at L-2... for killing the joke vote atmosphere?

The problems with your post:
1. Everyone meta-games to an extent. The extent I did was to say, I am not a noob and wouldn't post this seriously if mafia. I am pretty disturbed that you think this lowly of me.
2. Our games aren't exactly short any more even compared with mafia scum.
3. If this was a bandwagon on an inactive no one would have a problem with casting suspicion on it. Why can't I cast suspicion on a BW I started myself on myself?
4. Obviously the move wasn't fool proof, do you have fool proof ideas of how to catch mafia when all that has gone before are joke votes?

Finally your continuance with this is worrying, I waited nearly two days for reactions while clearly active, I even made a post complaining people should post once per day during this time. Have you never heard of reaction testing? Even if I were mafia, it would be far more likely I planned this in advance rather than I slipped up and was trying to shift pressure.

[shieldgenerator7]

Official Vote Count:

Pmchung (5) - Nagerous, Victor, Dazza, Sheep, /
Soundman (1) - Haggis
MeFeDe (1) - TFO
Dazza (1) - Soundman
Haggis (1) - zimmah
TFO (1) - Pmchung
New Car (1) - MeDeFe

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch, 6 to get a new car, 4 to get a new pony

*yes, VS now has double voting powers

PMC gets a new pony!

Congratulations, PMC, you get PeeWee!

Deadline a week from never

[nagerous]

unvote as though it is funny to see pmc squirm a bit - it is not in my eyes the best lead that seems to be out there, instead I am going to choose to throw my vote TFO's way for making one too many excuses already with just a little bit of pressure: unvote vote TFO

[pmchugh]

I ain't squirming. I am quite comfortable dealing with people who can't think beyond the words that are said.

Well, I do think you're move was a tad weird. I read your reasonings, but I don't understand why you picked nagerous. Yes, he did join a bandwagon, but, dazza's vote was a bit of a bandwagon as well, and you didn't call him out on it.

On a side note, I am going to assume that Victor has double voting powers?

The reason I picked nag was 100% meta. I knew that nag wouldn't really think I was mafia from that post so had he stuck by his vote then he would have been suspicious. You are right in that maybe my move did work and I just happened to pick the wrong one. Slight FOS at dazza.

Also you never gave an fos, unless this was it?

Also I don't believe haggis has contributed anything so far, so it would be nice if he could chime in with an FOS or at least a talking point to get us going.

No response, earns the vote. unvote vote haggis

[TheForgivenOne]

My FOS? I really don't have one at the moment, unless I was to put one on an inactive. I'd personally wish I could make it when I get better, but I don't know when that will be. It's hard to get a reading, as over the last 2-3 pages, only 5-6 users have actually posted, and it's mainly been you and nag.

[TheForgivenOne]

Actually, a slight FoS at Leitz, he confirmed and hasn't said anything since. I think everyone else made a joke vote or two.

[/]

Fine, you am will hear from me then.
hmmm, I'm not sure, I take strategy from mafiascum with a grain of salt personally, here on CC we try not to make our days last for months on end, so voting the first scummy thing to come around is not a bad thing, I don't really get into metagaming too much if it's not completely obvious, so I personally wouldn't go a route like you claim to have chosen. Also I believe players change, and sometimes get frustrated with a deadlock and just try to get something done, so suggesting a random lynch isn't some out of the field "lynch me mafia, I am a noob" tactic like you claim, I simply found it suspect because you seemed to try to play it off as some kind of super obvious sarcastic bait.

Now I also notice you dropped said catch almost immediately, implying it wasn't such a thought out foolproof move, it really does seem to me like you made a mistake and are trying to play it off with an excuse that you played off just as quickly.
Eh, I'm not sure if it's really a scum tell, but I honestly think it's at the very least a ploy to get the heat off of yourself, which does get me curious. I think I'll throw out a vote since you're totally killing to joke vote atmosphere here.

Unvote Vote PMC

So you put me at L-2... for killing the joke vote atmosphere?

The problems with your post:
1. Everyone meta-games to an extent. The extent I did was to say, I am not a noob and wouldn't post this seriously if mafia. I am pretty disturbed that you think this lowly of me.
2. Our games aren't exactly short any more even compared with mafia scum.
3. If this was a bandwagon on an inactive no one would have a problem with casting suspicion on it. Why can't I cast suspicion on a BW I started myself on myself?
4. Obviously the move wasn't fool proof, do you have fool proof ideas of how to catch mafia when all that has gone before are joke votes?

Finally your continuance with this is worrying, I waited nearly two days for reactions while clearly active, I even made a post complaining people should post once per day during this time. Have you never heard of reaction testing? Even if I were mafia, it would be far more likely I planned this in advance rather than I slipped up and was trying to shift pressure.

this was obviously a joke, I posted a bunch of reasons just before that but you are killing the joke phase, so, I'm not lying either

1. if you posted insane crap while town and super duper careful while mafia, you would be a crappy mafia player and I could metagame your alignment 100% of the time, you should be complimented I suspect you either way based on your individual actions.
2. I suppose, but if you are insistent on metagaming, us oldies played faster games before, so that's sometimes our style. Also the link you gave has some key phrases like "vanilla townie" and "not intentionally scummy, but were, in fact, bad play", so you see how even they reacted...
3. Because, if it's yourself you obviously have a motive to keep the target alive, duh.
4. No, which is why I don't dismiss random bandwagons as terrible.

You flipping ASKED ME, why I wasn't participating in the debate against you after my FOS a couple days ago, what the heck did you want?
anyhow, like I said, the main reason I don't believe it was planned is because you dropped it so fast, you keep bringing up how it's a totally logical legitimate move, with nothing to show for it. You post paragraph after paragraph of you "Why this catches scum" book report, but the person you caught? One page later you just go "lol, he's getting mad, nevermind, better unvote", and don't say you support your plan but believe nag, because you obviously dropped all other aspects of your "plan" like a sack of bricks;
What of the other people in your trap?

Sheep is a vet who specifically called for your lynch and is still voting you, you didn't give him so much as a glance of suspicion.

Dazza wagoned you and hasn't posted for four days (which, now that I say it out loud is, suspect FOS Dazza) not so much as a peep out of you.

[/]

EBWOP
noticed you mentioned dazza a few posts up, so w/e, also that "slayer's gambit" you mentioned and insisted was the name of your strategy doesn't mention it has anything to do with a metagame, it in fact says anyone who wants to jump on a bandwagon early is scummy.

[dazza2008]

Yeah sorry for not posting for a bit. I have been following but didn't say anything.

I really do not understand pmc's "tactic". He does something scummy to catch someone voting him for acting scummy

Makes no sense to me at all.

I will leave my vote where it is just now as he is the scummiest player I have seen so far.

Would be good to hear from the inactive players though. Especially ones who have not posted at all. Could we have some prods mod?

[shieldgenerator7]

MASS PROD SENT



-SG7 ( )

[/]

Don't try to trick me! and/or Don't tell what to do in your sleep!

[Victor Sullivan]

This is ponyposterous! Y I NO HAVE TWO VOTE? U NO SPEAKY DA PONY ENGRISH?

[color=pretty ponies]vote haggis[/color]

Get yo' pony-ass down here.

-Sully

[pmchugh]

10/10 for trolling. I am raging pretty bad and there is no way you guys are serious.

Is it really that hard to understand?

2. I suppose, but if you are insistent on metagaming, us oldies played faster games before, so that's sometimes our style. Also the link you gave has some key phrases like "vanilla townie" and "not intentionally scummy, but were, in fact, bad play", so you see how even they reacted...

First off, I didn't copy the move precisely from the mafiascum rule book, it was just a tactic I was aware of and used to generate information and possible leads. I first seen this done maybe 3 years ago and I only linked that because you "inside the box" guys thought what I was doing was something out of the ordinary. I used a tactic I had heard before and applied it to a game I am in, you seem to try and discredit it purely on the grounds it came from mafiascum.

3. Because, if it's yourself you obviously have a motive to keep the target alive, duh.

Are you deliberately misunderstanding the comparison here? 99% of the time you start a BW in the first 2-3 pages the intention is not to get a lynch, it is to get information. So I reiterate, why can't I cast suspicion on a BW I started myself on myself?

4. No, which is why I don't dismiss random bandwagons as terrible.

Yet you dismiss my tactic on the basis of, you didn't get any results!

You flipping ASKED ME, why I wasn't participating in the debate against you after my FOS a couple days ago, what the heck did you want?

My problem is that you are persisting with poor logic, not that you are posting in the debate.

anyhow, like I said, the main reason I don't believe it was planned is because you dropped it so fast, you keep bringing up how it's a totally logical legitimate move, with nothing to show for it. You post paragraph after paragraph of you "Why this catches scum" book report, but the person you caught? One page later you just go "lol, he's getting mad, nevermind, better unvote", and don't say you support your plan but believe nag, because you obviously dropped all other aspects of your "plan" like a sack of bricks;
What of the other people in your trap?

I've got a town read on nag, a slight town read on sheep, an fos on dazza and I have generated a lot of discussion. And you say that I have "nothing to show for it". Check again.

Sheep is a vet who specifically called for your lynch and is still voting you, you didn't give him so much as a glance of suspicion.

I believed he was genuine when he posted, I can go in to more detail if needed.

And finally:
1. Do you genuinely believe I wanted to lynch MeDeFe?

2. Do you genuinely believe that I did not intend this play from the start?

3. Are you aware you just FOS'd dazza as a direct result of my move that you are so critical of?

[pmchugh]

Yeah sorry for not posting for a bit. I have been following but didn't say anything.

I really do not understand pmc's "tactic". He does something scummy to catch someone voting him for acting scummy

Makes no sense to me at all.

I will leave my vote where it is just now as he is the scummiest player I have seen so far.

Would be good to hear from the inactive players though. Especially ones who have not posted at all. Could we have some prods mod?

Let me explain my logic, one last time.

Step 1: People who BW are suspicious.
Step 2: There are no suspicious players at the moment.
Step 3: I could start a BW to find suspicious players.
Step 4: I could start a wagon on an inactive, but everyone has seen that before and knows how to react. (every single day 1 pretty much)
Step 5: I don't think it possible to start a serious wagon on anyone else
Step 6: So I start a wagon on myself and await reactions

Please let me know where you get lost.

Also can you explain why you voted me initially and why you haven't stated any opinions in the previous few days.

[sheepofdumb]

I think you've handled yourself very well PMC. I threw what little I had at you which kicked off the more serious discussion and you didn't crack under the pressure that the gambit comes with. It's unfortunate that in such a small game we are already plagued by inactives. I do hate putting pressure on them because it usually yields little. Either they come back and we now have no reason to vote for them, they are replaced and we have no reason to vote the replacement, or we lynch them and find out only their role.

Nothing has stuck out at me through my casual reading of the game and the inactives are side tracking us. I'm going to be gone this weekend but when I get back on Sunday I'll take a more involved look if nothing comes up.

In the meantime, Unvote.

[/]

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to tunnel or anything, I'm just argumentative like that.
Your points are fair enough, I won't say I believe you 100%, but I'll drop it.

And finally:
1. Do you genuinely believe I wanted to lynch MeDeFe?

2. Do you genuinely believe that I did not intend this play from the start?

3. Are you aware you just FOS'd dazza as a direct result of my move that you are so critical of?

1.No, if I were to go with my gut I would guess you were using hyperbole to get a claim, like you said, early wagons are good for info.
2. Like I just said above.
3. Sure, but just to troll harder and crank that anger to eleven, I will point out that you've been so busy justifying your tactics that you needed it pointed out to you twice before you even noticed, let's say it's a 50/50 catch.

Anyways, back to the bandwagons are for info point, like I said when I voted, you behavior made me curious, so I voted you hoping to get info, since there is now a bit to go on, and the wagon is dying enough to make more unlikely, I'll Unvote until I see what (or who) else shows up

[/]

Also, yes, if you are offering, I would like to hear why you have a town read on sheep and nag, especially the later who pretty much just raeg'd at you and called you an idiot before you said he seemed genuine. (Something I've seen nag do as scum too by the way.)

[soundman]

Well I never thought that PMC was serious. In fact I thought he was down right joking when he made that post. Which made it interesting to see who jumped on him for making that comment. I have to agree with him, it did generate quite a bit of discussion which is needed the most on day one. (Sorry I haven't posted much. Been super busy the past week with a bunch of competitions). The discussion generated seems to be dying down now and I don't have anything of real substance to add. However I find it slightly suspicious that Dazza is now the only one still voting for PMC.

[Haggis_McMutton]

Responding to prod.

Sorry guys, finals week, I'll contribute something more meaningful on the weekend.

In the meantime enjoy a rainbow on me.

[dazza2008]

Yeah sorry for not posting for a bit. I have been following but didn't say anything.

I really do not understand pmc's "tactic". He does something scummy to catch someone voting him for acting scummy

Makes no sense to me at all.

I will leave my vote where it is just now as he is the scummiest player I have seen so far.

Would be good to hear from the inactive players though. Especially ones who have not posted at all. Could we have some prods mod?

Let me explain my logic, one last time.

Step 1: People who BW are suspicious.
Step 2: There are no suspicious players at the moment.
Step 3: I could start a BW to find suspicious players.
Step 4: I could start a wagon on an inactive, but everyone has seen that before and knows how to react. (every single day 1 pretty much)
Step 5: I don't think it possible to start a serious wagon on anyone else
Step 6: So I start a wagon on myself and await reactions

Please let me know where you get lost.

Also can you explain why you voted me initially and why you haven't stated any opinions in the previous few days.

I still think it is weird play. Fair enough it got discussion going which is good.

I voted for you because you seemed the most scummy to me. That is what I do on day 1.

However I find it slightly suspicious that Dazza is now the only one still voting for PMC.

Really? You find it suspicious that my vote is on the guy I am most suspicious of?

I would think it would be worse if I just had my vote on a random guy that I was not suspicious of.

[zimmah]

[MeDeFe]

That's my pony! She belongs to me!

[Fircoal]

Responding to prod.

Sorry guys, finals week, I'll contribute something more meaningful on the weekend.

In the meantime enjoy a rainbow on me.

I don't like finals week. or Math 5A. CURSE YOU MATH 5A! >:U

Luckily I only have one more final (in 2 hours none the less), and then I'll be Free. FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[pmchugh]

My dissertation is due tomorrow but I am not even free after that. 9 exams

unvote since haggis promised content

1.No, if I were to go with my gut I would guess you were using hyperbole to get a claim, like you said, early wagons are good for info.
2. Like I just said above.
3. Sure, but just to troll harder and crank that anger to eleven, I will point out that you've been so busy justifying your tactics that you needed it pointed out to you twice before you even noticed, let's say it's a 50/50 catch.

1 & 2 You don't ask for a claim unless they slip up while under pressure on day 1 wagons, not that I was even trying that.
3 OK you are right, I will split that catch 50/50 with TFO

As for sheep and nag:

On nag, he did get a bit pissy but mafia tends to do that to people. The following post (with rage removed) makes sense to me.

Do you think ... that I would just bandwagon you as a scum member with a serious vote on day one

Now of course he could have been saving this as a defence while planning to let votes accumulate on me but I don't see what this would really achieve, especially as it requires deliberate day 1 lurking. Rereading all his posts prior to this one none of them are serious. Even:

Or we can random lynch pmchugh for having the least votes, calling for a bandwagon, and pushing for a lynch. Unvote, vote pmchugh

Makes sense. unvote vote pmcshug

Why not unvote vote pmchugh

"Why not" is not exactly a very serious post. So what makes me have a "town" read and not just a non-mafia one? He never FOS'd me. He never tried a counter move, why wouldn't mafia do that when I was getting it from all sides? Nag could have easily applied pressure to me, or cast doubt on why I did what I did but he didn't. I also think he has been the only other one really looking for mafia as can be illustrated by his posts against TFO.

And sheep:

Or we can random lynch pmchugh for having the least votes, calling for a bandwagon, and pushing for a lynch. Unvote, vote pmchugh

He doesn't exactly sound serious. After I revealed play he questioned me and then relented when I had adequately defended myself.

So that is where my tells came from, of course one or two scummy posts could flip my opinions but they are a starting point at least.

I still think it is weird play. Fair enough it got discussion going which is good.

I voted for you because you seemed the most scummy to me. That is what I do on day 1.

However I find it slightly suspicious that Dazza is now the only one still voting for PMC.

Really? You find it suspicious that my vote is on the guy I am most suspicious of?

I would think it would be worse if I just had my vote on a random guy that I was not suspicious of.

You keep saying, I am "the most scummy" but you haven't given any reason why I am scummy beyond not understanding what I was doing.

[dazza2008]

I just found that whole thing a bit scummy. I don't understand how acting a little scummy to get people to bandwaggon you very unhelpful. Town will always bandwaggon something scummy. I realise it was not the scummiest thing ever but with so many inactives and not a lot to go on it is the best case i see unless we pressure an inactive but that is often not useful at all.

I just don't think the tactic you used would catch scum. I think they would sit back and watch. Scum want to stay out of the limelight and I think if you are not scum they probably have.