question about gay marriage

[the carpet man]

So, it seems like you're a selfish douchebag. How does that work out for you?

do you honestly think that saying 'seems' means this isn't an insult? my nephew who is 5 could take you down in a debate. it 'seems' like you have the intellectual capacity of a potato, natty.

@Woodruff i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.


(the edits where to make the quote work)

[Woodruff]

i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.

I suppose, but...

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[the carpet man]

the fact that you consider the nazi persecution of minorities (including the gassing of millions of jews) level to the debate on gay marriage makes me wish i lived in a society like yours, where i had no real problems to concern myself with.

next you will ask why i do not care about police corruption before posting some quotes from 'armaggedon'

at which point i might say - armageddon out of here

[Woodruff]

the fact that you consider the nazi persecution of minorities (including the gassing of millions of jews) level to the debate on gay marriage makes me wish i lived in a society like yours, where i had no real problems to concern myself with.

What the hell are you talking about? I'm in no way equating the two. I am however very much pointing out that not standing up for others "when it doesn't affect you" can absolutely have very real, very serious consequences for you.

So stop with the attempts at Godwin's Law and try to recognize the point for what it is.

[the carpet man]

i do not feel that my being dismissive of the gay man's right to marry another man is akin to a 1930s german pretending they do not see the nazi atrocities 'because it does not affect them'. your poem is moving but i do not consider it a harbinger of the doom i will suffer for overlooking some abstract minority rights.

we are talking about a government that seems unwilling to let every person marry. last time i looked i do not see the USA gassing gay people. please do not use the example of the holocaust in such a light manner.

[natty dread]

So, you don't care about stuff that doesn't directly affect you. It doesn't matter if other people are treated poorly, as long as it doesn't directly affect you.

That is something that only a selfish douchebag would think.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, it seems like you're a selfish douchebag. How does that work out for you?

do you honestly think that saying 'seems' means this isn't an insult? my nephew who is 5 could take you down in a debate. it 'seems' like you have the intellectual capacity of a potato, natty.

@Woodruff i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.


(the edits where to make the quote work)

I generally agree with the underlined. I guess I'm a douche bag for not devoting X-amount of time toward stressing and caring about the plight of Berber tribes in the mountains of southern Libya.

Never mind that I spend my time stressing and caring about other people and other matters. I'm just a douche bag for not devoting more resources to X; instead I devote resources to Y, which makes me the essence of douche. (Seems like someone is taking an arbitrary position ITT).

[thegreekdog]

So, it seems like you're a selfish douchebag. How does that work out for you?

do you honestly think that saying 'seems' means this isn't an insult? my nephew who is 5 could take you down in a debate. it 'seems' like you have the intellectual capacity of a potato, natty.

@Woodruff i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.


(the edits where to make the quote work)

I generally agree with the underlined. I guess I'm a douche bag for not devoting X-amount of time toward stressing and caring about the plight of Berber tribes in the mountains of southern Libya.

Never mind that I spend my time stressing and caring about other people and other matters. I'm just a douche bag for not devoting more resources to X; instead I devote resources to Y, which makes me the essence of douche. (Seems like someone is taking an arbitrary position ITT).

Yes, you are not a selfish douchebag if you donate your time, effort and money (wait, money? where have i seen that before) to causes that Natty Dread supports (and only those causes).

[BigBallinStalin]

So, it seems like you're a selfish douchebag. How does that work out for you?

do you honestly think that saying 'seems' means this isn't an insult? my nephew who is 5 could take you down in a debate. it 'seems' like you have the intellectual capacity of a potato, natty.

@Woodruff i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.


(the edits where to make the quote work)

I generally agree with the underlined. I guess I'm a douche bag for not devoting X-amount of time toward stressing and caring about the plight of Berber tribes in the mountains of southern Libya.

Never mind that I spend my time stressing and caring about other people and other matters. I'm just a douche bag for not devoting more resources to X; instead I devote resources to Y, which makes me the essence of douche. (Seems like someone is taking an arbitrary position ITT).

Yes, you are not a selfish douchebag if you donate your time, effort and money (wait, money? where have i seen that before) to causes that Natty Dread supports (and only those causes).

Well, you're right, TGD. It can't be refuted that natty_dread's tastes and preferences are so much more important than ours; therefore, we must adhere to whatever he demands--lest we become douche bags.

[thegreekdog]

The Zeppelin of Irrefutability.

[JoshyBoy]

He's trolling, silly.

Of course. But it is also very much the type of arguments I hear just about everyday around here... so, not so silly, really.

Forgive me, I thought this was off-topics.

I also thought I might try and share some fun bits of info to lighten the mood.

I was wrong on both accounts it seems. Get off your high horses and cheer up.

[the carpet man]

So, you don't care about stuff that doesn't directly affect you. It doesn't matter if other people are treated poorly, as long as it doesn't directly affect you.

That is something that only a selfish douchebag would think.

there is still no need to make comments of personal offense just because we hold different world views. if i may try something here:

it seems you are an arrogant and self-righteous keyboard monkey, who seems to feel that everyone should view the world the same way as him. it seems that your intelligence is of a level where you are only able to converse with someone you disagree with by using insults. it seems you are a fairly unintelligent individual.

[BigBallinStalin]

The Zeppelin of Irrefutability.

Inflated, full of gas, aggressive:









But unfortunately:

[Woodruff]

So, it seems like you're a selfish douchebag. How does that work out for you?

do you honestly think that saying 'seems' means this isn't an insult? my nephew who is 5 could take you down in a debate. it 'seems' like you have the intellectual capacity of a potato, natty.

@Woodruff i guess that is a fair point, but i'd rather concern myself with things that affect me directly than with things that may or may not have some small impact on my life at some point in the future. there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought.

(the edits where to make the quote work)

I generally agree with the underlined. I guess I'm a douche bag for not devoting X-amount of time toward stressing and caring about the plight of Berber tribes in the mountains of southern Libya.

Never mind that I spend my time stressing and caring about other people and other matters. I'm just a douche bag for not devoting more resources to X; instead I devote resources to Y, which makes me the essence of douche. (Seems like someone is taking an arbitrary position ITT).

Yes, you are not a selfish douchebag if you donate your time, effort and money (wait, money? where have i seen that before) to causes that Natty Dread supports (and only those causes).

Well, you're right, TGD. It can't be refuted that natty_dread's tastes and preferences are so much more important than ours; therefore, we must adhere to whatever he demands--lest we become douche bags.

I'm having difficulty following here...are the two of you agreeing with the assertion that what affects others is of no concern as long as it doesn't directly affect you? BBS, aren't you the one always going on about unintended consequences?

[BigBallinStalin]

I agree with this: "there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought."

It's true. How many people in here have gave much thought Austrian Economics? How about the problems of mathematically modelling human behavior and then prescribing policy based on data which doesn't accurately describe human behavior? Or what of the millions in here who forgot about the Socialist Calculation debate yet spout off Marxist ideology?

According to natty's logic, if you don't value the above as much as I do, then you're a douche bag. That logic deserves ridicule (which is what TGD and I were doing).


Time is a scarce resource. Concern and care have to be limited to a finite amount of affairs. Natty values X. carpet man values other affairs more than X. The conclusion that carpet man is a douche bag because he doesn't value X as much as natty does is ridiculous.

[Lootifer]

inb4 Natty tells BBS he is wrong.

[JoshyBoy]

inb4 Natty tells BBS he is wrong.

+1 natty boy knows everything

[Lootifer]

i didnt word it very well; i meant to say "inb4 Natty ruthlessly attempts to cut BBS down using personal attacks to show HOW VERY FUCKING WRONG he is"

[Woodruff]

I agree with this: "there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought."

You didn't really answer the question.

[Haggis_McMutton]

it seems you are an arrogant and self-righteous keyboard monkey, who seems to feel that everyone should view the world the same way as him. it seems that your intelligence is of a level where you are only able to converse with someone you disagree with by using insults. it seems you are a fairly unintelligent individual.

Now you're getting the hang off it. Except you need a better finish "fairly unintelligent individual" really doesn't cut it.

------

@ the homosexuality thing.

I agree to an extent, gay marriage in itself doesn't seem overly important to me either, don't care too much.
What bothers me much more is the principle underlined in things like gay marriage. Namely that the government should limit it's citizens personal freedoms without any kind of rational reasoning behind the decision. That it should be ok for the government to decide that I should not be allowed to take a action that affects only myself.
And I do think that is an important issue, so gay marriage becomes important by proxy.

[BigBallinStalin]

I agree with this: "there are too many problems in this world to give many of them a great deal of thought."

You didn't really answer the question.

Remember that time when you said "I'm having difficulty following here"?

I read your post, and it appeared to me that you misunderstood my position. I then posted here to explain what my position actually is.

But for clarity's sake:

Are the two of you agreeing with the assertion that what affects others is of no concern as long as it doesn't directly affect you?

No, I'm not asserting that. I'm asserting (see link above).

BBS, aren't you the one always going on about unintended consequences?

Yes, I am. What are the unintended consequences of not dedicating X-amount of resources to paying attention to the affairs of homosexual civil unions compared to the unintended consequences of dedicating X-amount of resources to other concerns? lol, no idea, but it still depends on how relevant the affair is to your particular circumstance.

Why don't you ask carpet man if he believes that individuals--regardless of their sexual orientation--should be treated equal in the eyes of law? How about concerning civil unions--should individuals be granted equal legal access to this contract? Maybe he isn't really a douche bag?

[Woodruff]

Maybe he isn't really a douche bag?

I've never suggested that carpet man is a douche bag. You'll have to ask someone else that question if you want a relevant answer.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

So why exactly are we opposed to gay marriage? And I mean same-sex couples, not dwilhemi's absurd beard scenario. I don't really get it.

Also I think Haggis hit it right on the head.

-TG

[natty dread]

i didnt word it very well; i meant to say "inb4 Natty ruthlessly attempts to cut BBS down using personal attacks to show HOW VERY FUCKING WRONG he is"

In b4 the whole "in b4" thing became irrelevant and boring... oh wait, too late for that.

According to natty's logic, if you don't value the above as much as I do, then you're a douche bag. That logic deserves ridicule (which is what TGD and I were doing).

Sure, that's always your way of "winning" arguments. You take something entirely out of context, twist it to fit your own definitions, then attack your own strawman argument and declare yourself a winner. Then you get a couple of your ideological fanboys to circle-jerk over how irrefutable and infallibe your logic is...

Job Well Done, again, BBS. I salute you.

[natty dread]

So, you don't care about stuff that doesn't directly affect you. It doesn't matter if other people are treated poorly, as long as it doesn't directly affect you.

That is something that only a selfish douchebag would think.

there is still no need to make comments of personal offense just because we hold different world views. if i may try something here:

it seems you are an arrogant and self-righteous keyboard monkey, who seems to feel that everyone should view the world the same way as him. it seems that your intelligence is of a level where you are only able to converse with someone you disagree with by using insults. it seems you are a fairly unintelligent individual.

But hey, I don't have to care if you get offended, because it doesn't directly affect me. I can insult you just as much as I want, because you're not me so why should I care if your feelings get hurt?

Your views are basically that what happens to other people doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect you. Your views are intolerant by definition, since they imply only you and those you care about matter, whereas the problems of "other people" (ie. those who are different from you) don't.

And then, when your bullshit is called out you try to hide behind the shield of "tolerance" and say "I just have different world views, you can't insult me for that!"

Well buddy, if you want to dish it out, you have to be willing to take it up the ass. If you express opinions that are by their very nature selfish and douchey, you can't be insulted when someone points out that you're being a selfish douche.