Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Shinra Corporation and Elena win

[dazza2008]

stubborn guy, seriously. you have tunnelvision

What has been said or done to convince us Strike is wrong?

[zimmah]

stubborn guy, seriously. you have tunnelvision

What has been said or done to convince us Strike is wrong?

my role pm sais he's wrong, that's enough for me.

unvote vote zimmah to speed up to enivitable.

but seriously guys, stop being so stubborn, and start thinking of other idea's except the obvious.

[drunkmonkey]

stubborn guy, seriously. you have tunnelvision

What has been said or done to convince us Strike is wrong?

my role pm sais he's wrong, that's enough for me.

unvote vote zimmah to speed up to enivitable.

but seriously guys, stop being so stubborn, and start thinking of other idea's except the obvious.

There's a consensus going around town that we'd like to avoid a speedlynch and use the day to discuss other possible cases. If you really are town, why are you trying to speed up your lynch?

[dazza2008]

stubborn guy, seriously. you have tunnelvision

What has been said or done to convince us Strike is wrong?

my role pm sais he's wrong, that's enough for me.

unvote vote zimmah to speed up to enivitable.

but seriously guys, stop being so stubborn, and start thinking of other idea's except the obvious.

Its not really being stubborn is it? Someone investigated you and found you guilty we have to go along with it unless they can prove they are innocent.

You saying "my role pm said so" is hardly evidence is it? I will unvote because I want to hear Com9's case today.

[strike wolf]

The simple answer to that Zimmah is that especially when Miller and Framer are ruled out (framers work on the same night) a guilty investigation result trumps the other possibilities.

[VioIet]

Sigh, I suppose I'm one of the few who think that waiting for commander is a friggin waste of time.



If you all want to stall the game, then so be it. But commander already showed up- didn't give his case (lack of time, I suppose), and voted Zimmah. How much more incentive than that do we need? If he was really going to say something that would clear zimmah- than he wouldn't have voted him.

If commander does have something pressing to say, he better say it soon and get it out before the day goes to night. It's an awful feeling to be NK'd before you've gotten the chance to reveal all. But despite this- I'm not a fan of holding the game up and delaying the inevitable. Never have been, and never will.

I have things to do- I'm about to begin grad school- so don't plan on me to check back here in the next two days.

[strike wolf]

Sigh, I suppose I'm one of the few who think that waiting for commander is a friggin waste of time.



If you all want to stall the game, then so be it. But commander already showed up- didn't give his case (lack of time, I suppose), and voted Zimmah. How much more incentive than that do we need? If he was really going to say something that would clear zimmah- than he wouldn't have voted him.

If commander does have something pressing to say, he better say it soon and get it out before the day goes to night. It's an awful feeling to be NK'd before you've gotten the chance to reveal all. But despite this- I'm not a fan of holding the game up and delaying the inevitable. Never have been, and never will.

I have things to do- I'm about to begin grad school- so don't plan on me to check back here in the next two days.

Yesterday you said we had only been going for two days but you didn't expect anything more. I find this contradictory and you also haven't answered it. Also add skimming to my list against you as Comm9 did not vote Zimmah as he stated he wanted time to state his case. I don't see much evidence of you reading the thread at all since your last post.

[DoomYoshi]

And thats the reason I trust him,because he took the chance and brought WW out into a fake claim he couldnt back up. And he seems to think that C9 info will help us out. As i said I am cautious not fond of the speed lynch when the investigator hasnt voted for that person yet. Thinking about something, Doom you were quick to lynch where do you stand on this?

Where do i stand on what? I thought I made my position clear.

[strike wolf]

So I'm gonna say this now. I stand by what I said about Barrett in part from earlier. IF you are not overeager. Please do not kill tonight. IF you are overeager the best two targets are Vio or Jgordon.

[DoomYoshi]

So I'm gonna say this now. I stand by what I said about Barrett in part from earlier. IF you are not overeager. Please do not kill tonight. IF you are overeager the best two targets are Vio or Jgordon.

I will reiterate what I said earlier. You won't regret killing jgordon.

[Commander9]

Okay fellas... Thank you for your patience and apologies to have taken my time, but this were little hectic this weekend. Anyways, it's time to move on and finally post what I've been wanting to say for a while. First of all, let me state that I still support the idea of lynching our "Wedge" guy before my own lynch as that guilty investigation trumps what I have to say here. However, I would like this to be our lynch of tomorrow barring some new information arising. Anyways... Presenting Edocsil. First of all, some of these things will arise from my previous experiences with him and some of these are meta-gaming (perhaps even WIFOM), but I think that players that have played with him before at least a few times (Strike wolf, Vioiet, Yoshi, etc.) can confirm what I will say.

First of all, I will say that I rate one of the best players in the community - he usually contributes very well as townie and gives out a lot of very good ideas. As a mafia member, he can be very slick and appear to be town almost as good as anyone. When 3rd party, his gameplay ranges from staying away from action to getting into midst of it with unique strategies (see PotC mafia if you need a good example). In this game, Edocsil has been rather quiet and pretty much of none of his posts have substance with most of them either already stating what has been said before (he has agreed with a lot of things me and strike wolf have said) or simply stating the obvious. This leads me to believe that his purposes are not the same with the majority's and I would be willing to say that if he's not 3rd party in this game (my bet is on a SK), I'd be willing to be lynched for that.

He starts Day 1 pretty normally with a few joke votes and that's nothing unexpected. First, once day 1 starts unraveling, he attracts my attention with this:

Lol, I have never played any of theses games, I have no idea what is going on here.

This is the 1st time I have ever seen Edoc stating anything like that. It's very not Edocsilesque. Furthermore, a bit before he stated that "Never really cared for FF, but hell that's what the wiki is for. In."

In the next 2 weeks, he has 2 posts (between Dec 14th and Dec 30th):

Just saying, Zimmah 1, Others 0.

I do not support randomly lynching an inactive. To many are inactive over the holidays for that to have any benefit.

One of them comments on the on-going argument without really contributing anything (except the post which makes him appear more active than he is) and the other one is something obvious that has already been stated both by me and few others.

After that, once he notices that votes versus Wild are starting to gather and that WW made a mistake, Edocsil realizes that it's likely that he'll be forced to claim so he jumps into the bandwagon soon enough not to attract attention. Afterwards, he continues onto to accusing and saying most of the things that others have been stating on the case, but there was one post that also left me feeling kind of curious (especially when I look at it now):

Statements like this are why no one is listening to you. Right now it's delved into the point where you aren't even using arguments anymore. you're just flaming each other. As a mod on this site I'm telling you to keep it civil.

I had to quote this, no other real option

Wild has been coming off as real aggressive in all his games for a little while, I wouldn't suggest a lynch because he is being an ass.

What we find here is that 1st he again agrees with one of the more influential townies (Strike), BUT THEN he makes a rebuttal for the case (even though he just supported and pursued) in order should WW turn out to be town, that he'd basically have a fall back point back there. A sign of a seasoned veteran (who knows what he's doing) of knowing when to stop pushing a case in order not to be in the front lines.

Ok, here is my list of people I would like to hear from before the day ends.

Edocsil: curiously quiet during this game. Very little substance in the posts today
Eldario: you had a couple days to look over the posts again - any results?
New guy1: Perhaps it is better to replace him, as activity shows n signs of getting better
Alt1978: nothing is stopping you from voting for idea, what is stopping you from posting?
Killboy: vanished
Maximum bandit: vanished
Dukasaur: it is now past the 5th, and yet no activity
violet: just don't want you to start hiding again

I have said a few things and thrown in my input on some matters. I think Today has been 100% bullshit and largely wasted time, but i do have a few thoughts that I will elaborate tomorrow. In a big game like this my objective is to watch learn and survive. I won't do anyone any good if I get killed N1, N2 and fail to present myself near the endgame.

Note that others also start noticing Edoc's behaviour and he suddenly realizes that he needs to present something so he: A) promises to contribute more the next day and elaborate and some thoughts. (Did that happen on Day 2? ) B) He says that his objective is to watch, learn and survive - which could again point to a 3rd party player.

During the whole day 2, his sole contributions are explanations of basic mafia roles and how they work (The explanation on bus driver), again stating that he's confused about flavour of Shinra (!!! (read again what I've wrote before about this.) and finally 2 quick posts on how LaL + votes. Did he elaborate on his thoughts from the previous day? Not quite.

And finally... Day 3 has not been better either: he has 3 quick posts (2 liners or less) with the last one again catching my interest:

Screw that, if they don't dother to show up for 3 days its not like they are going to have anything groundbreaking. This is cut and clear follow the cop, we have no choice, barring extreme circumstances a guilty investigation cannot be allowed to live.

Note that he wants to move on as quick as possible from this day (no need for discussion and new information, eh?). He also discourages my post possibly due to feeling that it was him that I had in mind.

So, to put all of my reasons why I think Edocsil should be investigated or pressured:
A) His game so far has offered little of substance or of any new contributions (not like him)
B) Based on previous experiences, he does act a lot like he used to act when he was 3rd party (WIFOM)
C) I can't believe that Rodion would only put inexperienced players as mafia/3rd party and since I am town and so is Strike (by the looks of it), Edoc would be a pretty good choice for an anti-town role (metagaming)
D) He has shown little of interest for additional discussions both on Day 2 and Day 3 (he actually said that he'd be posting and elaborating on his thoughts more on Day 2, but that never happened).
E) He has been stating that he is confused and can't really understand the flavour well, although his 1st post when signing up was that he was planning to read the wiki and learn. Did something change his mind when he received his role?
F) He has been agreeing with some of the more influential people way too much (me, strike) and that's again not like him - he normally tends to more so go his own way rather than following others blindly.
G) His normal game standards have been off for one way or the other.
H) He has expressed interest in moving to Night 3 as soon as possible before even waiting to hear what I'll say.
I) He has played well enough to post every now and then and to appear active, but with little to none real contributions or substance.

As I've said, I still believe we should lynch Zimmah and not Edoc today once we'll finish with our discussions, but I am getting really strong vibes that he is not a part of town and probably even mafia, but that he's rather a 3rd party. That's all folks - hope you won't be too disappointed

[Commander9]

Sigh, I suppose I'm one of the few who think that waiting for commander is a friggin waste of time.



If you all want to stall the game, then so be it. But commander already showed up- didn't give his case (lack of time, I suppose), and voted Zimmah. How much more incentive than that do we need? If he was really going to say something that would clear zimmah- than he wouldn't have voted him.

If commander does have something pressing to say, he better say it soon and get it out before the day goes to night. It's an awful feeling to be NK'd before you've gotten the chance to reveal all. But despite this- I'm not a fan of holding the game up and delaying the inevitable. Never have been, and never will.

I have things to do- I'm about to begin grad school- so don't plan on me to check back here in the next two days.

Thanks for your vote of confidence after some severe skimming and inactivity - really means a lot to hear that from you in this game

While I said I would vote Zimmah when time comes, I wanted to present case on Edoc (especially since it appeared that the day was about to end with little information to go with us for the next day) and I find it quite curious, funny and even suspicious that after your severe inactivity you only drop in into the game to bash me and to encourage this day to end. How convenient!

I would not be against her being vigged or investigated (same with Edoc (not vigged, but investigated)) as her contribution at this moment in the game is a round 0.

[ghostly447]

I am going to revote zimmah later tonight unless anyone has an objection to that. And I feel confident that you presented a strong case there C9. Personally, I feel like over these 2 (almost 3 days) you have taken good note of his activity, and past play, and will most certainly follow that case tomorrow. Good job in my opinion

[Rodion]

Vote Count

zimmah - DoomYoshi, Djfireside, Victor Sullivan, edocsil, chapcrap, codierose, Violet, zimmah (L-3)

With 20 players alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

[dazza2008]

I am glad we waited for the case. A lot of good points there and a lot to go on for tomorrow. I will vote Zimmah again since we have heard what we waited for.

[chapcrap]

Com9, did you want to vote? I think your case on edoc makes a lot of sense. I think we have many cases or ways tomorrow can go depending on how zimmah flips.

As for jgordon, I think he could be scum, but to me, his actions don't seemed linked with zimmah and portray a noobishness more than anything else. As far as noobishness goes, ghostly falls into that category as well. Every post, I want to quote and tell them to stop being so new. No offense guys, that's just how it comes off to me.

As for Vio, who cares if you start grad school in two days, the rest of us want to hear what Com9 has to say. And with a case like SW's against zimmah, he's going to get lynched either way, so your vote wasn't even needed. FOS Vio. Let us get info.

[jgordon1111]

Only because I like you Chap,rebuke taken and accepted. Noob at this yes,scum no.

[ghostly447]

Chapcrap, what do you mean you would like to quote every message I make and say quit being so new? If you dont remember, I made a case against zimmah on D2. It was told off, and we killed the framer, and today we are following the investigation that SW made against zimmah. I completely foresaw the possibility of him being scum. Yes, I am new and still learning terms such as "miller" but I dont feel that is seriously such a bad thing. I may have to accuse you of skimming, even, because I dont feel you had to come out and say I fall in the category of noob. I already said at least 3-4 times, I AM a noob to CC mafia. I would think 3-4 times would be enough. Sorry for making a big deal about it, but come on, anyone who is paying attention should have read that I only know half of what I am doing here. I would like to think I am doing decent.

[strike wolf]

Chapcrap, what do you mean you would like to quote every message I make and say quit being so new? If you dont remember, I made a case against zimmah on D2. It was told off, and we killed the framer, and today we are following the investigation that SW made against zimmah. I completely foresaw the possibility of him being scum. Yes, I am new and still learning terms such as "miller" but I dont feel that is seriously such a bad thing. I may have to accuse you of skimming, even, because I dont feel you had to come out and say I fall in the category of noob. I already said at least 3-4 times, I AM a noob to CC mafia. I would think 3-4 times would be enough. Sorry for making a big deal about it, but come on, anyone who is paying attention should have read that I only know half of what I am doing here. I would like to think I am doing decent.

I am going to take the middle ground here. Chap is right that you act new. Don't take it personally it's to be expected. I didn't dismiss your case on Zimmah, I actually felt it was decent but that the WW thing was stronger. Once your comments were added in with Zimmah's late day behavior that I concluded that he was the best investigation target. I donot however feel Chap's comment was meant to imply anything bad about you just an observation.

@Comm: I like your argument. there's a few small things I could argue about being weak but the only big point is about Rodion putting experienced players on both sides as roles are generally random. I would say he's more likely 3rd party than mafia.

Beyond that I am satisfied with the discussion today so I'll go ahead and put him at L-1. Vote Zimmah

[drunkmonkey]

Ooh...I don't think I've ever thrown a hammer before: vote zimmah

[chapcrap]

@ghostly: strike is right. I wasn't trying to be offensive. Just because you act new, doesn't mean you can't have good points. I'm sure I acted the same when I was new. I didn't make it past day 2 in my first 3 games. It's not a big deal, it's just that a lot of 'noobish' activity can be misconstrued as scummy. That's why I brought it up, because while you and jgordon could be scum, I just wanted to state my view, that a lot of your actions weren't necessarily scummy, but instead were noobish.

[ghostly447]

Sorry once again Chap. It seems I have misunderstood your meaning once again. I understand your intentions now. lol. All is still well I hope though .

[edocsil]

Well that was a really long post about me. Most of it was true, and we will certainly hash this out tomorrow. As you said, Zimmah is the one dieing today.

I would like to say a few things about the case so the vig doesn't get all happy on me, but I will leave the large part of this argument for tomorrow when we can give it the time and effort it deserves.

First off, I have never played FF, despite being a fairly active gamer. The gameplay never was really my thing, too much talking not enough playing. This left me more or less lost D1 when it was all flavor spec and herptastic cases followed by general inactivity. D1 I said that I was going to get some thoughts in but the WW case took off before I had my ducks in a row so to speak, and today we had a guilty fairly early on. Which case should I have interrupted to voice my opinions? Chasing after both targets will just leave us with less lynches and low activity as everything drags on. The easiest way to shield a scum mate is throw up a decent but unrelated case for others to chew on. The first case will often be forgotten. D2 I spent quite some time reading up on lore on the Wiki and I am much better prepared to wade into the melee now.

[Commander9]

Com9, did you want to vote? I think your case on edoc makes a lot of sense. I think we have many cases or ways tomorrow can go depending on how zimmah flips.

I didn't vote zimmah in case anyone wanted to discuss what I've posted more. Why I didn't vote Edoc?.. I think that has already been explained.

@Comm: I like your argument. there's a few small things I could argue about being weak but the only big point is about Rodion putting experienced players on both sides as roles are generally random. I would say he's more likely 3rd party than mafia.

I never said it was perfect, but it was strong enough in my eyes to be brought and not to be discounted. I've had a feeling from day 1, but I've waited to see whether this would continue or not... And it did.

And yes Strike, I've already said that I am willing to bet almost anything that he's a 3rd party (re-read the post if you need), but I would not discount mafia either. As far as random roles... I am not sure about other mods, but while my role distribution is generally random, I do switch roles if I deem it necessary in order to balance things.

Well that was a really long post about me. Most of it was true, and we will certainly hash this out tomorrow. As you said, Zimmah is the one dieing today.

Well, you should know me well enough that when I normal post a case... It usually has some substance

I would like to say a few things about the case so the vig doesn't get all happy on me, but I will leave the large part of this argument for tomorrow when we can give it the time and effort it deserves.

Yup, that's why I stated that I didn't want you to get vigged, but rather investigated/vigged. I am not 100% certain that you are not town and I know that you could be quite useful should you be town, so I wanted to give you a chance to defend yourself. If we do have an overeager vig, as strike pointed out, there are better avenues. However, I do believe that you should pressured tomorrow unless the cop comes out with a guilty result.

First off, I have never played FF, despite being a fairly active gamer. The gameplay never was really my thing, too much talking not enough playing. This left me more or less lost D1 when it was all flavor spec and herptastic cases followed by general inactivity. D1 I said that I was going to get some thoughts in but the WW case took off before I had my ducks in a row so to speak, and today we had a guilty fairly early on. Which case should I have interrupted to voice my opinions? Chasing after both targets will just leave us with less lynches and low activity as everything drags on. The easiest way to shield a scum mate is throw up a decent but unrelated case for others to chew on. The first case will often be forgotten. D2 I spent quite some time reading up on lore on the Wiki and I am much better prepared to wade into the melee now.

Your loss I'm playing it again... And it's a great game. Generally, I do agree with D1 stuff, but you normally at least try to be more active and it just didn't appear that you put any effort towards the game. Well, discussions are not necessarily interruptions (just like what I did with your case here), so if you had something essential to say, you should have done so (I always try to do that). There's a big difference between derailing and redirecting cases rather than acknowledging and informing about other cases. As far as your answers go... I am definitely interested in hearing them, because I am ready to put some pressure on you

[drunkmonkey]

That was the friendliest case-rebuttal-response interaction I've ever seen. Other players should take note.