Final Fantasy VII Mafia - Shinra Corporation and Elena win

[ghostly447]

sorry for double post here, but maybe the flavor does come in a second mail. Rodion does several things that seem different from others, and it may be a mix up to knock the town off their feet (if this game is town heavy). We wouldnt know unless we lynched someone, but I do not personally want to take that risk until there is hard evidence.

[wildwilliam]

(as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).

-Sully

Definitely not. She is a main part of the love story with Cloud and is in the game right from the beginning until the end. Not a minor character. Vincent doesn't even join the party if you don't want him to.

However, they could still both be fakeclaims as we don't know which roles are in the game.

It makes no sense for Tifa to be a fake claim. There are only 2 (possibly 3) characters that are more important to the story.

1. Cloud - good
2. Sephiroth - bad
3. Tifa/Aerith - good
4. Aerith/Tifa - good

Background on Vincent:

In the backstory of Final Fantasy VII, Vincent is a genetically modified human assigned to guard the scientist Lucrecia Crescent, who gave birth to the game's antagonist, Sephiroth, in one of Shinra Corporation's experiments involving the cells of an extraterrestrial life form called Jenova. Soon after, Vincent himself became subject to experiments performed by a Shinra-affiliated scientist named Hojo. If the player unlocks Vincent, he will join Cloud Strife's group to stop Sephiroth, as well as to seek revenge on Hojo.

Due to time constraints, Vincent was originally not meant to be playable in Final Fantasy VII; however, he was ultimately made an optional character.

Background on Tifa:

Tifa is the childhood friend of protagonist Cloud Strife, owner of the 7th Heaven bar and member of the terrorist organization AVALANCHE, who oppose the city of Midgar's Shinra corporation and their use of "Mako" energy from the planet as a power source.

A member of the terrorist group AVALANCHE and owner of the 7th Heaven bar, Tifa is the childhood friend of Cloud Strife, the protagonist of Final Fantasy VII. Convincing him to join the group to keep him close and safe, she later assists him in saving the planet from the game's villain, Sephiroth.

How could Tifa not be in this game? Seriously.

[Victor Sullivan]

(as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).

-Sully

Definitely not. She is a main part of the love story with Cloud and is in the game right from the beginning until the end. Not a minor character. Vincent doesn't even join the party if you don't want him to.

However, they could still both be fakeclaims as we don't know which roles are in the game.

I never said Tifa was a minor character. I do, however, think she was a bit more bland than the other main characters.

It makes no sense for Tifa to be a fake claim. There are only 2 (possibly 3) characters that are more important to the story.
...
How could Tifa not be in this game? Seriously.

That's somewhat the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if Rodion used Tifa as a solid fake claim for the mafia. I doubt he'd give them all scraps.

-Sully

[chapcrap]

ghostly, I'm not a noob player, but I wasn't skimming either. I said that it looked like you might be trying to pit to townies against each other, which is a great move for a scum member to make if he can get away with it. I just wanted to get some clarity on that from you. That's the reason you got an FOS.

I read everything that you wrote.

[wildwilliam]

(as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).

-Sully

Definitely not. She is a main part of the love story with Cloud and is in the game right from the beginning until the end. Not a minor character. Vincent doesn't even join the party if you don't want him to.

However, they could still both be fakeclaims as we don't know which roles are in the game.

I never said Tifa was a minor character. I do, however, think she was a bit more bland than the other main characters.

It makes no sense for Tifa to be a fake claim. There are only 2 (possibly 3) characters that are more important to the story.
...
How could Tifa not be in this game? Seriously.

That's somewhat the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me if Rodion used Tifa as a solid fake claim for the mafia. I doubt he'd give them all scraps.

-Sully

that would be like having a mayberry mafia game with andy griffith and no barney fife.

I am seriously lost. I can prove my role if given a chance, yet I am not even being given a chance.

list of good fake claims that would not be a main character:

Cait Sith
Red XIII
Cid Highwind
Vincent Valentine
Marlene
Zack Fair
Elfe
Sears
Fuhito
The Ravens

[ghostly447]

ghostly, I'm not a noob player, but I wasn't skimming either. I said that it looked like you might be trying to pit to townies against each other, which is a great move for a scum member to make if he can get away with it. I just wanted to get some clarity on that from you. That's the reason you got an FOS.

I read everything that you wrote.

And you are now clear of my FOS. Thank you for explaining.

[Commander9]

Geez... One day in university and I come back to see this.

Alright. I now feel comfortable doing this. vote wildwilliam

Reason. I am Vincent Valentine (from FFVII the game)-town JOAT. I did not initially counter WW's J.O.A.T. claim because A. His set of abilities are slightly different than mine (I have a roleblock but no kill). B. I was not convinced there was only one JOAT in the game. C. I felt I could use my investigation to better prove if he was town or scum however I was role blocked. D. I was unconvinced that in a claim battle, that my claim would be stronger than a Tifa claim. My role according to Wikipedia suggested my character was relatively minor and almost was not playable within the game before gaining greater popularity after the game was released. What has changed a. It has been suggested that my claim may be stronger than I thought it was. B. What Wildwill claims he gets does not match what my investigation results would say.

Also considering what my results say, I am no longer thinking that Sephiroth is an SK and may instead be working with a second Mafia. However 2 mafias with 4 members seems a little over powered.

Tifa isn't apart of Shinra or the Turks - if she were to be in this game, she'd certainly be town. It's a matter of if Tifa is a fake claim or not, and, as spiesr indicated on his list, it seems probable that Tifa would be a likely candidate for a solid fake claim (as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).

-Sully

My name is not spiesr?

Why would I make this up? where is the advantage? He did not change my role, and he did not have to send me a second pm, but he did. Rodion, the mod of this game, sent a second PM telling me the flavor of my kill. This is in no way a lie.

so if you see a kill from crystal gloves, it will be me. and crystal gloves belong to Tifa, who is guaranteed town.

like I said, I was hoping Barrett had the same incidence happen to him so he could back me up.

You would not be guaranteed town... But you'd be fairly close to that. Personally, I'd be willing to wait a night and see this through as I doubt Rodion would go as far as giving a mafia GF additional flavour protection.

I will say that flavour wise, Vincent fits JOAT much, much better than Tifa (as I've mentioned). Also, to be fair, I wouldn't call him a minor role in FF7 universe in any way and I am definitely willing to test this. Should WW come out differently, we would have something to think about, but all in all, this looks very solid.

Yeah, I thought the same thing on day 1 (hence my list).

1) I had to be investigated by someone last night.

2) I am hoping by my second part of my post about the flavor of my kill that barett would back me up. maybe the same thing happened to him and his gatling gun.

3) why make such an important character a fake claim? She is one of the main members of Avalanche.

Actually, for me, you just dug your own grave by saying #1. It's something that a mafia Godfather (probably Rufus) would say. #2 isn't helping you much either. #3 = it's a perfect fake claim for a mafia GF.

As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.

Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.

At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.

To be fair, as far as actual toughness goes, Vincent has never been all that much of a badass, especially physically. He is pretty much immortal, but him not having a kill actually makes perfect sense due to all of the Lucrecia/Hojo BS.

And we have told him that it's not a good idea and why. He is just as likely to get blocked/killed/driven on the next night, especially if he announces out loud stuff like that.

That is pretty much the only thing stopping me from straight off screaming that he is mafia.. But I'm willing to test it.

he is counter claiming my role not my character. Also I can prove my role with the flavor of my kill. something everyone is missing.

We're not missing it - we are just not sure if that's enough of a proof. What if it would have crystal in it, but would not necessarily be gloves?

so then what's the likelyhood of tyfa beng anti-town?

Slim to none. A very strong fake claim is quite likely, however.

It makes no sense for Tifa to be a fake claim. There are only 2 (possibly 3) characters that are more important to the story.

1. Cloud - good
2. Sephiroth - bad
3. Tifa/Aerith - good
4. Aerith/Tifa - good

How could Tifa not be in this game? Seriously.

Because some mods think it's good to give mafia players strong fake claims, especially if they think it's not really completely balanced. Tifa could be a superb fake claim without sticking out and without taking away the very main characters. Furthermore, as far as roles go, Tifa's role can be easily duplicated by others (a tom-boyish girl that kicks some ass) by some other characters as far as mafia roles go. Aerith would be an unlikely fake claim because every game needs a doctor... And there's really no one else for that as far as flavour goes.

[Commander9]

that would be like having a mayberry mafia game with andy griffith and no barney fife.

I am seriously lost. I can prove my role if given a chance, yet I am not even being given a chance.

list of good fake claims that would not be a main character:

Cait Sith Possibly fairly decent fake claim.
Red XIII Nope, this is one of the few roles that could be suitable to be a cop and I doubt that this would be a fake claim.
Cid Highwind If there's a busdriver, he's the only candidate, thus probably no.
Vincent Valentine Yes, this could possibly be a fairly strong fake claim, but mafia GF should be able to get a better one.
Marlene Not really sure about this one - I think flavour wise she should be in, but it could be a pretty strong fake claim.
Zack Fair I may be biased, but I personally don't think he'd be a fake claim. I'd be willing to bet that he's in the game and that he's probably Beloved Princess.
Elfe Weak
Sears Weak.
Fuhito Weak
The Ravens Weak

[Victor Sullivan]

Lol, sorry, Com9. I could have sworn it was him, haha. Bit of a hectic week

-Sully

[Commander9]

EBWOP.

Alright. I now feel comfortable doing this. vote wildwilliam

Reason. I am Vincent Valentine (from FFVII the game)-town JOAT. I did not initially counter WW's J.O.A.T. claim because A. His set of abilities are slightly different than mine (I have a roleblock but no kill). B. I was not convinced there was only one JOAT in the game. C. I felt I could use my investigation to better prove if he was town or scum however I was role blocked. D. I was unconvinced that in a claim battle, that my claim would be stronger than a Tifa claim. My role according to Wikipedia suggested my character was relatively minor and almost was not playable within the game before gaining greater popularity after the game was released. What has changed a. It has been suggested that my claim may be stronger than I thought it was. B. What Wildwill claims he gets does not match what my investigation results would say.

Also considering what my results say, I am no longer thinking that Sephiroth is an SK and may instead be working with a second Mafia. However 2 mafias with 4 members seems a little over powered.

I will say that flavour wise, Vincent fits JOAT much, much better than Tifa (as I've mentioned). Also, to be fair, I wouldn't call him a minor role in FF7 universe in any way and I am definitely willing to test this. Should WW come out differently, we would have something to think about, but all in all, this looks very solid.

Yeah, I thought the same thing on day 1 (hence my list).

[chapcrap]

Also, about testing WW's claim, the only way he is wanting to test is is to kill someone... I'm always willing to test a testable claim, but I feel like there should be a different way to test than to the kill.

[Rodion]

Codierose has replaced maximumbandit!

[strike wolf]

Codierose has replaced maximumbandit!

Can I ask the reason? Maximumbandit just posted yesterday.

[Rodion]

Codierose has replaced maximumbandit!

Can I ask the reason? Maximumbandit just posted yesterday.

Maximum said he's getting busy in real life and asked to be replaced.

[strike wolf]

So there was a lot to sort through since I logged off...

First of all my vote still stands.

Second, Im not very familiar with the FF universe but how did Tifa get the Crystal Gloves?

Third, So your kill flavour specifically says it will mention Crystal gloves?

Fourth, This game has characters from both the movie (Advent Children I think?) and the game right? So there's more room for fake claims and one TIfa being a fake claim would not at all surprise me.

Fifth, Commander can you restate your opinions a little clearer? I got lost as to whether you were supporting lynching WW today or giving him an extra night.

Sixth, WW's reaction seems very much like a Mafia GF who was given a good fake claim. He's riding heavily on his claim of Tifa while pushing to discount my claim (to a lesser extent) and he's pointing investigations his way which has been a common theme for GFs in the past to "clear" themselves.

I may have more to say, I had to read all of that at once so I think I've probably forgot about a couple details in this post.

[jgordon1111]

Boggled to my boots, So what it seems to me is the way to figure out if WW is town or not, is to let him do a night kill? doesn't seem like a good idea to me somehow what if he is mafia? Or we need to figure out how rodion planned the game out and out think him? Is this what most of you guys are getting at? But if we cant out think rodion do we lynch WW or SW just to prove that there are to types of the same role in the game, What the heck do we do when they are both town because rodion put them in there in case we tried to out think him. It seems more evidence is needed because if we lynch either of them and that one turns out to be town we are going to probably assume the other one is scum and lynch them next. then we lose the other one who is also town because we tried to out think rodion who possibly set us up for this. I know more than once I have been told I dont make alot of sense in my post's so I tried to make what I was asking and saying clear. Any one who can give me a clear answer it would be appreciated.

[strike wolf]

I'll let you know when I decipher the post but I think this is a good example of what Rodion was getting at when he said play the game not the mod...I know the investigation thing in hind sight was a bit of playing the mod probably but deciphering whether Rodion gave different people different investigation possibilities I think is more farfetched game wise...

[DoomYoshi]

I just figured I would bump this up so people could specifically look at all the data in one place.

1 - Anti-town players have fakeclaims.

2 - To account for all players + fakeclaims (that would be 30+ identities), I broadened the character pool by introducing characters that can be from the videogame or from the movie. That means you can find both "Character A from the videogame" and "Character A from the movie". They can both exist, they can be 1 real/1 fake or they can both be fakeclaims. Don't try to play the mod, play the game!

One question: do either of your characters specify game or movie?

Killing isn't a great way to test a claim. I don't like the smell of this, but we lucked out last night, so we have a bit of leeway today. vote wildwilliam

[jgordon1111]

Ok this isnt the first game rodion has moded, and he plays as well, why wouldn't he give out different investigative skills, wouldnt he change up from game to game just to make sure we didnt try to out think him? This is just a question,most of you have played with him before and know him better. I am trying to get a better picture of the game and rodion as a Mod to see what is the best action before I vote. Would he weight the game in favor of mafia like this, or count on us to be able to pick them off this easy?

[DoomYoshi]

Ok this isnt the first game rodion has moded, and he plays as well, why wouldn't he give out different investigative skills, wouldnt he change up from game to game just to make sure we didnt try to out think him? This is just a question,most of you have played with him before and know him better. I am trying to get a better picture of the game and rodion as a Mod to see what is the best action before I vote. Would he weight the game in favor of mafia like this, or count on us to be able to pick them off this easy?

I admit that he might put different investigations into the game. This is why I held off so long. I would prefer to end today in a lynch though.

[jgordon1111]

thanks doom appreciate the answer,just trying to avoid making a mistake here and lynching someone unless we got them dead to rights.

[Commander9]

Second, Im not very familiar with the FF universe but how did Tifa get the Crystal Gloves?

Third, So your kill flavour specifically says it will mention Crystal gloves?

Fourth, This game has characters from both the movie (Advent Children I think?) and the game right? So there's more room for fake claims and one TIfa being a fake claim would not at all surprise me.

Fifth, Commander can you restate your opinions a little clearer? I got lost as to whether you were supporting lynching WW today or giving him an extra night.

Sixth, WW's reaction seems very much like a Mafia GF who was given a good fake claim. He's riding heavily on his claim of Tifa while pushing to discount my claim (to a lesser extent) and he's pointing investigations his way which has been a common theme for GFs in the past to "clear" themselves.

All of Tifa's weapons are different types of gloves that basically extend her hands and increase her capability for fighting.

Yeah, I really, really want to know this.

Yes, you are correct - and I've indeed said the same thing at my post.

It's not clear, because it wasn't intended to be clear. I don't like his claim at all anymore after your counter claim and especially the investigation, but if he really is what he says he is, we'd lose a pretty powerful town role that could be very useful. I am leaning towards axing him, but I'm not decided and I shall not vote him just yet. My gut feeling is indeed that he is the GF... But while it has been right quite a few times, I've had some pretty bad mishits.

Exactly, which makes this a very difficult decision.

[codierose]

just to confirm im in for maximumbandit

[drake_259]

There is something fishy about ww, he was originally going down the lynch line until his claim which was tifa and everyone unvoted as she is a popular character. I would find it a bit dissapointing if she is not in the game but I don't believe ww. Too much is not adding up with him so:

vote ww

Rodi can we have an updated vote count please.

[wildwilliam]

Rodi can we have an updated vote count please.

doesn't matter, pretty sure you were the topper.

you guys actually managed to lynch tifa lockhart with no counter claim to her character. amazing.

please look on my bandwagon a lot of people voted without any real reason or really crappy ones. No way all of them could be misguided townies.

and my character was not a JOAT, I tried to claim something I could hide behind.

I was Tifa Lockhart - Vengeful Bodyguard. Basically if someone night kills Cloud I would die instead but kill the one who came to kill him (with crystal gloves). and my flavor of my kill DID come in a separate PM.

I was going to claim this at L-1, but I missed some votes.

good luck town!