Get Rich from the Bank [5/12] Town Wins!

[Iron Butterfly]

"I don't get why you say you have data confirming some sort of trend and then refuse to back it up by showing us."


I quoted Rodions exact words from another game

This game Rodion has said,

Rodion wrote:
[color=#FF0000And that is your death sentence you just signed. Vanilla townie is the easiest role for mafia to fakeclaim, not to mention they are not really useful for town. If you are forced to claim and you claim vanilla townie, game theory indicates you must die.][/color]

Could you link us or direct us to this game theory? Id be curious to know if its absolute, dictated game by game and its situation or perhaps its just your game play style. Your "Vanilla Townies must die" makes it sound like a person must always die when they claim vanilla townie.

I was also taught in my first game that "Town does not Lie". Lieing indicates Mafia scum.


Your statement makes it sound like it is an absolute

[catnipdreams]

I have a busy day irl today - but I have some more ideas I'd like to post later, if folks wouldn't mind holding off on a lynch until then....

[Leitz]

I'm still not convinced with the Iron Butterfly case, even now after the claim, so I'm curious to see what catnip has to say! In the meanwhile I'll reread through everything again and write down some stuff that caught my attention.

[jonty125]

Hmm, so Rodion and IB going back and forth makes for interesting, and convoluted reading. Without going back and re-quoting all of the little pieces of each of your arguments, I think you are both acting scummy, here is why.

At this point I think we should be able to agree that the poisoner did NOT manage to poison his victim. Rodion, your complaint about English not being your mother tongue seems weak to me. I understand that others have been confused as well, but IB is right, you do write pretty eloquently. I personally don't think it's that confusing of a sentence because I'm in a clan with Skill.... he just doesn't write that well. Seems to me we should be less worried about the sentence structure of the events, and more worried about it's outcome. I see several of you guys referencing a specific term: flavor. I'm guessing that this refers to the way a story or night kill is worded giving clues to who or what happened. In this case, it's just bad grammar. So one strike against Rodion for trying to cloud the issue.

IB, your theory of a bus driver makes sense, but I'm a little confused on why it's so important to you. Whether a bus driver is involved or not, PCM (roleblocker) is still dead, and his partner has committed suicide. I'm comfortable with assuming that the suicide victim was not part of the original four (I think that was ROdion's argument though, not yours). That leaves PCM, his victim, PCM's killer and the remaining mystery character. What if the remaining character was simply a watcher, or investigator? Seems to me like there are a lot of possibilities for the extra character without it being required that a bus driver being involved. While I still agree that a bus driver is a possible explanation, it just seems like you are sticking doggedly to this point. You and Rodion have gone sideways arguing about the melee vs ranged weapons, whether or not someone got poisoned, and various roles that may or may not appear in a mod's first mafia game. You are both muddling the issue, and it wouldn't surprise me if your are both mafia! That gives you one strike for clouding the issue, and one strike for being the first to suggest an unnecessary role.

Other's thoughts?

I just didn't like sundogs post. I think they are more likely to both NOT be scum, than to both BE scum. And I think as they were fighting you just wanted to fuel it to get the town to decide one player over another, even though there is a fairly good possibility neither of them are scum.

I am willing to vote IB or sundog at this point.

I've got to admit sundog's post was a lil' fishy but I felt it was best if I didn't bring it up until a) the start of D3 or b) the case on IB fell apart. I feel we should tackle the game one case at at time so we don't split the vote and end up with a no lynch.

Iron, saying me, zimmah & Rodion are all mafia because of us defending each other is just WIFOM. You said I overly defened zimmah: he was overly attacked by catnip for a jokevote and from the way things were going zimmah was looking like our D1 scapegoat so I was trying to put a stop to it before it all got out of hand and forced him to claim (not that we don't want someone to claim but the motives were weak). Iron you sound like a dead man saying we must be careful who we want to lynch. Their are no other lynch candidates (I suppose there's sundog but the case on Iron is stronger and has more momentum). So, all in all I'm not budging on IB.

[Sundog308]

I just didn't like sundogs post. I think they are more likely to both NOT be scum, than to both BE scum. And I think as they were fighting you just wanted to fuel it to get the town to decide one player over another, even though there is a fairly good possibility neither of them are scum.

I am willing to vote IB or sundog at this point.

Wait, so your reason for being suspicious of me is because I thought both of their stories were suspicious? Really?

You're right, I did want to push towards one or the other because I was failing in finding the endgame in either of their arguments. They both made points and they both brought up stuff that seemed (to me) irrelevant to the game, it just seemed that they both needed to realize we were going nowhere. Obviously as a new player, my comments didn't carry much weight and they both kept up with their arguments, but I ended up looking suspicious.... weird.

I'm also curious about Catnip's comments. She seems to be very good about deliberately weighing everything that is being said and not jumping to crazy conclusions. Personally I don't know where to vote right now, I'm going to have to find an evening where I can hide out from the wife and not get yelled at for spending hours on here reading thread posts.
IB and Rodion are still just talking, and talking, and talking. I think my opinion on them remains as it was. They both seem off to me, but IB more so than Rodion. Sure, might be neither of them are scum. Maybe they both are, but that's unlikely because their arguing has only served to bring them both into focus, not to distract us towards another player. If they were both mafia, that seems a stupid ploy to me.

[Iron Butterfly]

Hmm, so Rodion and IB going back and forth makes for interesting, and convoluted reading. Without going back and re-quoting all of the little pieces of each of your arguments, I think you are both acting scummy, here is why.

At this point I think we should be able to agree that the poisoner did NOT manage to poison his victim. Rodion, your complaint about English not being your mother tongue seems weak to me. I understand that others have been confused as well, but IB is right, you do write pretty eloquently. I personally don't think it's that confusing of a sentence because I'm in a clan with Skill.... he just doesn't write that well. Seems to me we should be less worried about the sentence structure of the events, and more worried about it's outcome. I see several of you guys referencing a specific term: flavor. I'm guessing that this refers to the way a story or night kill is worded giving clues to who or what happened. In this case, it's just bad grammar. So one strike against Rodion for trying to cloud the issue.

IB, your theory of a bus driver makes sense, but I'm a little confused on why it's so important to you. Whether a bus driver is involved or not, PCM (roleblocker) is still dead, and his partner has committed suicide. I'm comfortable with assuming that the suicide victim was not part of the original four (I think that was ROdion's argument though, not yours). That leaves PCM, his victim, PCM's killer and the remaining mystery character. What if the remaining character was simply a watcher, or investigator? Seems to me like there are a lot of possibilities for the extra character without it being required that a bus driver being involved. While I still agree that a bus driver is a possible explanation, it just seems like you are sticking doggedly to this point. You and Rodion have gone sideways arguing about the melee vs ranged weapons, whether or not someone got poisoned, and various roles that may or may not appear in a mod's first mafia game. You are both muddling the issue, and it wouldn't surprise me if your are both mafia! That gives you one strike for clouding the issue, and one strike for being the first to suggest an unnecessary role.

Other's thoughts?

I just didn't like sundogs post. I think they are more likely to both NOT be scum, than to both BE scum. And I think as they were fighting you just wanted to fuel it to get the town to decide one player over another, even though there is a fairly good possibility neither of them are scum.

I am willing to vote IB or sundog at this point.

I've got to admit sundog's post was a lil' fishy but I felt it was best if I didn't bring it up until a) the start of D3 or b) the case on IB fell apart. I feel we should tackle the game one case at at time so we don't split the vote and end up with a no lynch.

Iron, saying me, zimmah & Rodion are all mafia because of us defending each other is just WIFOM. You said I overly defened zimmah: he was overly attacked by catnip for a jokevote and from the way things were going zimmah was looking like our D1 scapegoat so I was trying to put a stop to it before it all got out of hand and forced him to claim (not that we don't want someone to claim but the motives were weak). Iron you sound like a dead man saying we must be careful who we want to lynch. Their are no other lynch candidates (I suppose there's sundog but the case on Iron is stronger and has more momentum). So, all in all I'm not budging on IB.

Was Zimmah overly attacked? Or did he over react? He appeared to be over reacting to a simple new player attack and catnip rightly called him on it. For someone to have to claim there would need to be a basis for a case. Now you think there was a possibility that he may of had to claim so you came to his aid?

You had no idea if he was town or mafia on day 1. We were only on page 6 of discussion. Why the need to be so overly protective if you have no idea. Why wouldnt you let Zimmah argue for himself and state his own case? You then go out of your way to give glowing praise as if are giving him a job reference.

the little things add up.

[Leitz]

Ok, I've had enough of the dirt throwing between Iron Butterfly and Rodion. I believe it has escalated to something it should've never reached. It all started because of the confusing night scene sniper wrote, and I think we should leave that behind and look for some tells so here is what I noticed after rereading everything:

I believe that catnip clearly lacks D1 experience, but zimmah his reaction was really over the top. This should've been laughed away. It is clear from the rest of catnips posts after that post that she is double thinking everything and everyone. This is why I kept an eye on zimmah.

if you call that strong you don't know me, obviously, i was just trying to point out that your logic makes no sense at all and you're a serious idiot for trying to point out a JOKE VOTE as a solid argument for a real vote. and seriously, before joining a mafia game, go read yourself up on the subject, because all you do is talking trash. seriously the more i read your posts the more i want to just put you on the ignore list. i don't even think you're scum i just think you're too stupid to understand the concept of the game. and mob, he was not kidding either.

i can't believe you're even serious and your stupidity just make me angry because there's no way you can play a normal mafia game with flawed logic like that. we can't allow everyone to hide behind "oh i honestly didn't know, i never played mafia and i never really bothered to read finished games and guides to know how this game works, but i just think you look like scum so i'll just lynch you."

i wouldn't even expect this kind of BS from a new player.

I understand your frustration here zimmah, but like everybody else you could've just laughed about it and ignored it. Why this response calling her things like "serious idiot'" or "your stupidity"? I believe that is quite rude, even though her actions weren't the normal way to play.

i think he's lying. motivation:

• he votes rodion without any proof (jokevote, or so he claims) but he's still quite serious about it.
• when you call him out on it, he is giving a vague motivation, saying he's 'bored' in the early stage of day 1, while there's a lot of action going on.
• he's claiming to have a 'tactic' and 'role' combination (sort of claiming a power role early day 1, or at least a pretty usefull role, without much pressure at all)
• his role may or may not have anything to do with rodion, in other words it may be a power that only applies to rodion, but wouldn't lynching rodion cancel out his power, so how does it justify voting rodion?
• his answer is kinda dodgy and doesn't have much structure, he's hopping around in his explanation, first he states he's 'just bored' and right after that he sais he has a tactic. those statements don't add up.

seems to me like he's lying vote eagleblade

It all starts here, where he tries to protect Rodion.

lol i think i understand his claim. but i'm not going to point it out.

it's obvious if you think about it.

You figured it out Zimmah but your vote is still on him?

The only thing I can think of is some sort of Reverse Hider or something.. But that would be like a 1-time Cop role. (which is kind of cool actually, I may use that in future games! )

Ill sleep on this, maybe it will come to me later....

As MoB Deadly pointed out: zimmah thinks he knows eagles role but does not unvote him. If zimmah is mafia he knows who else is mafia, and seeing eagle play so so badly he might feel like his lynch could benefit him (aka the mafia) if eagle had a power role.

Oh and eagle, just stop trying to involve rodion in à case that is about you rodion has NOTHING to do with the case against you, he's not being scummy, you are. I don't see why you are trying to shift the attention towards him all the time. and besides, your plan Will not work if my guess is right. they'll just let someone else do the kill.yourplan would only work if theres only one killer.

Still defending Rodion..

you're overreacting IB. rodion makes a valid point. if someone would claim atm, i think counterclaiming may only make the situation worse.

in fact i find your reaction more suspicious than rodion's advice.

This is from D2: more of the same.

why is this game filled with stubborn a**holes?

i have nothing to do with rodion, i'm just telling you you should take of your tunnelvision glasses and accept that you may be wrong. i'm not even saying rodion is not mafia, he may very well be, but the reason you accuse him and the way you stick to your opinion makes me much more suspicious about you.

if you know somethng that we don't then better spit out your information. until then vote IB

for the very same reason, rodion was the most likely target for a doctor, mafia may not have wanted to risk missing a nightkill by running into a doctor, and chose an experienced player, but not as expierenced as rodion, maybe that was their logic.

you can't just bring a case against rodion just because he's experienced.

If I remember correctly, Iron Butterfly also noticed this regularity of zimmah stepping up for Rodion. I don't know what exactly is going on between the two of you, but zimmah you've been protecting Rodion from the very start (eagle focussing in on him). Could you please elaborate on this and explain this behaviour of yours towards Rodion?

[zimmah]

i'm not defending rodion, i'm just defending justice. IB has a stupid case against rodion just like catnip had a stupid case against me.

this game is filled with stupid cases and not a single normal case is around.

i don't know if rodion is scum, but in his case, it's hard to say. and i just don't like the attitude of iron butterfly towards rodion, rodion has done nothing wrong yet, no need to pressure him all that much.

[catnipdreams]

I believe that catnip clearly lacks D1 experience, but zimmah his reaction was really over the top. This should've been laughed away. It is clear from the rest of catnips posts after that post that she is double thinking everything and everyone. This is why I kept an eye on zimmah.

I won't quote the rest of his post, but Leitz has saved me some typing. I think we should lynch Zimmah. I believe he was trying to get me to react to his insults with more of the same, and escalate; when I did not react as he expected, he didn't have any traction to continue, and then eagleblade became an easy lynch target, and so on. But what would have happened had I responded in kind to Zimmah's provocations? A newbie calling a more experienced player nasty names after the newbie makes an atypical response to a joke vote? I think I would have been an easy target for the day one lynch. I think Zimmah saw an opportunity, and knowing that I was town, tried to play it up. Unfortunately, for the scum faction, I did not react in the desired fashion.

unvote vote Zimmah

I also have a suggestion for night actions. Rodion is clearly either a very dangerous scum player, or a very useful town player. I think it should be our priority to find out which he is. I am assuming we have a town doctor, and a town cop. We have a dead role blocker; perhaps there is another town role blocker, or someone with a similar ability. If the town doctor protected Rodion, and the town cop investigated Rodion, and anyone who could interfere with these two actions does not use them on Rodion, then we may have some useful information the next day. Of course, if we have a mafia role blocker, we won't know for sure, but perhaps there is no Mafia role blocker?

[zimmah]

I believe that catnip clearly lacks D1 experience, but zimmah his reaction was really over the top. This should've been laughed away. It is clear from the rest of catnips posts after that post that she is double thinking everything and everyone. This is why I kept an eye on zimmah.

I won't quote the rest of his post, but Leitz has saved me some typing. I think we should lynch Zimmah. I believe he was trying to get me to react to his insults with more of the same, and escalate; when I did not react as he expected, he didn't have any traction to continue, and then eagleblade became an easy lynch target, and so on. But what would have happened had I responded in kind to Zimmah's provocations? A newbie calling a more experienced player nasty names after the newbie makes an atypical response to a joke vote? I think I would have been an easy target for the day one lynch. I think Zimmah saw an opportunity, and knowing that I was town, tried to play it up. Unfortunately, for the scum faction, I did not react in the desired fashion.

unvote vote Zimmah

I also have a suggestion for night actions. Rodion is clearly either a very dangerous scum player, or a very useful town player. I think it should be our priority to find out which he is. I am assuming we have a town doctor, and a town cop. We have a dead role blocker; perhaps there is another town role blocker, or someone with a similar ability. If the town doctor protected Rodion, and the town cop investigated Rodion, and anyone who could interfere with these two actions does not use them on Rodion, then we may have some useful information the next day. Of course, if we have a mafia role blocker, we won't know for sure, but perhaps there is no Mafia role blocker?

voting people wthout having any idea what you're talking of AND redirecting not only 1 but 2 power roles and then you dare to call me scum?

seriously.

learn to play mafia.

[skillfusniper33]

Vote Count:

Rodion (1) - Iron Butterfly
Zimmah (1) - Catnip
Iron butterfly (3) - zimmah, Rodion, Jonty L-2

With 9 Alive it takes 5 for a lynch

[catnipdreams]

voting people wthout having any idea what you're talking of AND redirecting not only 1 but 2 power roles and then you dare to call me scum?

seriously.

learn to play mafia.

Interesting response; no attempt to explain himself or defend himself, just insulting me some more. Here is my rebuttal to Zimmah's comments:

voting people wthout having any idea what you're talking of

I think I have very logical, very reasonable thoughts about this game. I freely admit that I am new to mafia games, and have repeatedly asked more experienced players to use my ideas, or not, based on their greater knowledge of mafia games. I did not just pick Zimmah randomly; his posts have led me to my vote for him.

redirecting not only 1 but 2 power roles

I made a suggestion; I have no ability to force people to do anything. I am assuming that the players in this game are intelligent, independent thinkers, and fully able to consider the merits, or lack thereof, of my thoughts, and respond appropriately.

you dare to call me scum?

Well, yes, I do dare to call you scum...

learn to play mafia

Yep, that's what I am doing.

[zimmah]

voting people wthout having any idea what you're talking of AND redirecting not only 1 but 2 power roles and then you dare to call me scum?

seriously.

learn to play mafia.

Interesting response; no attempt to explain himself or defend himself, just insulting me some more. Here is my rebuttal to Zimmah's comments:

voting people wthout having any idea what you're talking of

I think I have very logical, very reasonable thoughts about this game. I freely admit that I am new to mafia games, and have repeatedly asked more experienced players to use my ideas, or not, based on their greater knowledge of mafia games. I did not just pick Zimmah randomly; his posts have led me to my vote for him.

redirecting not only 1 but 2 power roles

I made a suggestion; I have no ability to force people to do anything. I am assuming that the players in this game are intelligent, independent thinkers, and fully able to consider the merits, or lack thereof, of my thoughts, and respond appropriately.

you dare to call me scum?

Well, yes, I do dare to call you scum...

learn to play mafia

Yep, that's what I am doing.

thew reason i'm not defending myself is that watever i say, you'll say something about me, because since the very start of this game you've been hating on me for no good reason. just leave me alone and i leave you alone.

i don't even think you're scum, like i said before, you're just too stupid to understand i'm not scum either. let's just hunt scum and ignore each other. building cases against fellow townies will only help the real scum.

[catnipdreams]

thew reason i'm not defending myself is that watever i say, you'll say something about me, because since the very start of this game you've been hating on me for no good reason. just leave me alone and i leave you alone.

i don't even think you're scum, like i said before, you're just too stupid to understand i'm not scum either. let's just hunt scum and ignore each other. building cases against fellow townies will only help the real scum.

I haven't been hating on you at all. You went postal on me. I bear no ill will towards you, and I hope that you have a good, happy, healthy life irl. However, within the context of this game, your behavior has been, and continues to be, noteworthy. And of course I am going to respond to what you say; you are saying I am wrong about you, and I believe I am right about you.

[Iron Butterfly]

UNVOTE VOTE ZIMMAH

I have beleived Zimmah was mafia as well. Ive made no secrete of it.

Leitz has put together a text book case against Zimmah. Its the small things that add up over time. Zimmah was being protective of Rodion before I pressured Rodion. Zimmah says hes protecting Rodion out of a sense of justice. Rodion does not need protecting and as everyone has seen is fully capable of defending himself.

And for the record me attacking Rodion has nothing to do with being mean or disliking Rodion. I have pressured Rodion because that is the game. I saw somthing that didnt make sense, at least in my eyes, and went for it. I stuck to my guns against Rodion to see how others would react as well.

As I said earlier, the game is not just about making a case, its watching how others react to others. Mafia have the advantage of knowing who is who in this game and so can conquer and divide.

And yes Catnip Rodion is a very dangerous player. I say that with all do respect to him.

Zimmah on the other hand has no argument in his defense so can only insult.

The day is not over.

[Rodion]

Alright.

1 - On Zimmah: I did find his D1 overreaction to Catnip's overreaction a little off. Yes, Catnip was wrong when she seriously voted Zimmah for his jokevote on Deuce, but considering this is Catnip's first game I think he could have dismissed that accusation without making a mountain out of a molehill like he did. However, this is the only thing I disliked about Zimmah's play so far.

2 - To Leitz (mainly) and others: I'm not a big fan of the "I see player A is defending player B" line of thought. I'd like to remember how Betiko defending my in Official Mafia (which you are playing) was one of the reasons argued when people decided to lynch me (so they could get insight on Betiko after my flip - such bull...). See how that worked out for town there?

viewtopic.php?p=3461111#p3461111 - read this post I wrote (I was town in this game, so all I said there is what I really think). To expand on that, I dislike posts of "why are you defending him?" (provided, of course, that the defense has content instead of an unexplained "I believe him") or "I see you are defending him, if he flips scum you are next". I like when town examines the validity of the reasons someone argues when defending someone else, not the fact that they are defending someone else.

3 - To Catnip: I like the idea of being protected and confirmed as town, but your plan can go wrong in so many shapes and forms it's not even funny.

First of all, cops don't usually come out when they have innocent results, they usually wait for a guilty. You could then assume that the cop will investigate me N2 and if he keeps his mouth shut on D3 it means I'm innocent, but it doesn't quite work as nicely as one would originally think. Why?
The cop may be roleblocked.
The cop may disagree with you and investigate someone else and you'll never know until/if he claims.
As you said, some people could interfere with the results by framing me or busdriving me (the fact that Iron's theory on the busdriver being responsible for the 4-man scene is wrong doesn't mean the game lacks a busdriver).
In summary, there are many thing that can go wrong.

Of course, if the cop perceives me as the most scummy player in the game and decides to investigate me, that's his prerogative. I just don't think it is good if we enter any given night with the cop's investigation target clearly established.

4 - On Iron Butterfly: absent a sick turn of events (someone botches their claim, is caught lying or something equally comdemning), I cannot justify changing my vote from Iron to anyone else.

Also, Iron wanted to hear other people's thoughts on the lynching a vanilla theory.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4888 - check posts number 3 and 26 - the opinion is that claiming VT does not help your cause if you have been forced to claim (other people in the thread are mostly comdeming claiming VT when you are not forced to, by the way). The reason (even though they don't expand on that) is precisely my explanation that after you've been put on the hook, you can only survive by claiming a power role and either confirming it or making people afraid to test the claim by lynching you. I'll again refer to something I've written.

If you disagree, just think of what would happen if you decided to spare Iron Butterfly and look for another target, the other target got to L-2 and claimed vanilla townie as well. Would you lynch this new target?

If your reply is yes, then you are being inconsistent for allowing the most suspected player in the game to get by with a VT claim while denying the 2nd most suspected player in the game the same vote of confidence.
If your reply is no, then best case scenario you are going to have a massclaim in which every mafia member is allowed to claim VT and know that they are untouchable.

Try to run a simulation in your head.

The player that has the most votes is put in a position in which he is forced to claim and claim vanilla. Assume you decide to let him off the hook and pursue someone else. If the someone else you end up pursuing also claims vanilla, how can you justify lynching him when you didn't lynch the first person who was forced to claim and claimed vanilla? Actually, if you refused to lynch a vanilla claim when they were forced to claim, absent a counterclaim/obvious lie how can you justify lynching anyone at all (you're certainly not sparing a vanilla claim to lynch a town power role claim, right?)?

If you want more data on why I think claimed VTs when forced can't get away with it, I've asked the question in a forum. I'm willing to link you to that forum if Sniper says it's ok.

Tl;dr: given the circumstances, it would take a miracle for me to unvote Iron Butterfly and I do not condone the lynch of anyone else today (unless, again, the miracle occurs).

[Rodion]

So, you don't get confused by posts 3 and 26 (because they are actually the 4th and 27th posts - every thread starts with a post #0), I decided to quote them here.

If your bandwagon has any substance/logic behind it, then a claim of Townie should not de-rail it.

If claiming townie would somehow stop you from being lynched, it might be ok, but it shouldn't do that (unless there's also flavor involved or something).

[zimmah]

thew reason i'm not defending myself is that watever i say, you'll say something about me, because since the very start of this game you've been hating on me for no good reason. just leave me alone and i leave you alone.

i don't even think you're scum, like i said before, you're just too stupid to understand i'm not scum either. let's just hunt scum and ignore each other. building cases against fellow townies will only help the real scum.

I haven't been hating on you at all. You went postal on me. I bear no ill will towards you, and I hope that you have a good, happy, healthy life irl. However, within the context of this game, your behavior has been, and continues to be, noteworthy. And of course I am going to respond to what you say; you are saying I am wrong about you, and I believe I am right about you.

you started this whole thing right after the first jokevote and ever since you've been hating on me non-stop even though i've been trying to mostly ignore you and even answer your stupid questions.

i highly suggest you stop targeting me, as i'm not what you're looking for, unless you really want to lose this game.

and a noob telling what's noteworthy and what's not, ridiculous, you're really acting like you're so pro but you're making all kind of newbie mistakes all over. it's just disgusting.

just too much idiots in this mafia, i'm done with this, whatever i say or do or dont say or do, everyone's hating on me. go to hell.

i'm just trying to have some fun and play this mafia and playing my game like i always do but you guys don't even let me play, and just assume all kinds of things without even using any kind of logic or even knowing how the game works in the first place.

i'm reacting so strongly because all this bullshit disgusts me to no end, and it just keeps continuing, it's so disgusting i am actually thinking about either leaving this game and asking for a replacement or just suicide and let the town die because of their own stupidity, it's not even fun anymore, it's frustrating.

i could claim all kinds of things right now but you wouldn't believe a thing i said in the first place so why would i even bother.

[Iron Butterfly]

Zimmah. All I can say is WOW. Desperation.

Rodian you offered two opinions from unkown individuals about why they think VT should die. So what.
My opinion is circumstance dictates gameplay. The size of a game, the types of roles involved, the quality and experience of the players.

You have Zimmah selfdestructing before our very eyes under the pressure.

We are slowly having an understanding of whos who.

[zimmah]

Zimmah. All I can say is WOW. Desperation.

Rodian you offered two opinions from unkown individuals about why they think VT should die. So what.
My opinion is circumstance dictates gameplay. The size of a game, the types of roles involved, the quality and experience of the players.

You have Zimmah selfdestructing before our very eyes under the pressure.

We are slowly having an understanding of whos who.

dream on GTFO noob.

[zimmah]

there's not even a need for mafia, town will just destroy itself like this, well done, idiots, really.

[Leitz]

Unvote, vote zimmah
If you continue like that you'll be playing the same way eagle did..

[jonty125]

Ok, IB was acting pretty scummy but zimmah has just cracked

You dare call me mafia

just leave me alone and i leave you alone

i highly suggest you stop targeting me

everyone's hating on me. go to hell

I believe this roughly sums up him cracking under pressure

i could claim all kinds of things right now but you wouldn't believe a thing i said in the first place so why would i even bother.

Are you saying you won't claim (you are at L-2 and I aren't voting you so we won't have a speedhammer)

[skillfusniper33]

You may post that link Rodion, as long as it doesn't have to deal with anything that I sent you in a PM.

Vote Count
Zimmah (3) - catnip, IB, Leitz - L-2
IB (3) - Zimmah, rodion, Jonty - L-2

With 9 alive it takes 5 for a lynch

[zimmah]

it's extremely stupid that you retards cant even tell the difference between cracking under pressure and frustration from noobs lynching townies.

show me one game where i ever behaved like this as a scum member.

you all think you're so right while you're far from the truth.

i'm the town negotiatior, whenever i get lynched, the terrorist will become mad and kill 2 of their hostages, resulting in 2 more town deads. but whenever i get nightkilled by the mafia, the cops will attempt to rush in resulting in a mafia dying.

go ahead and lynch me if you wanna lose the game.