Cairns Coral Coast [Quenched] - Loaded!

[cairnswk]

I feel the need to bump this map up because it isn't quite getting the attention it deserves.

amen. maybe itll be the 1st map to skip the final forge stage.

Enigma...that ain't gonna happen...I'll be the first to see to that! It wouldn't be fair on other mapmakers....nice thought though!

[Guiscard]

I really cannot see anything that needs improving. Good job!

[Coleman]

I feel the need to bump this map up because it isn't quite getting the attention it deserves.

amen. maybe itll be the 1st map to skip the final forge stage.

Enigma...that ain't gonna happen...I'll be the first to see to that! It wouldn't be fair on other mapmakers....nice thought though!

Yeah, it probably isn't good to be that optimistic since I'm not even sure the mods know this map exists right now.

[mibi]

I feel the need to bump this map up because it isn't quite getting the attention it deserves.

amen. maybe itll be the 1st map to skip the final forge stage.

you just doomed this map.

ahh well, Im sure cairns will come up with some other good ideas in time.

[cairnswk]

I feel the need to bump this map up because it isn't quite getting the attention it deserves.

amen. maybe itll be the 1st map to skip the final forge stage.

you just doomed this map.

ahh well, Im sure cairns will come up with some other good ideas in time.

Mibi, if i had expectations that this map wouldn't go through Final Forge, then as stated before it wouldn't be fair on other maps and developers that have gone before. And besides, regardless of what Enigma or others say, Andy I beleive still has say on who makes Final Forge.
I can only pray that for the sake of players who are waiting on this map, that it MIGHT HAPPEN SOON!!!!?????...unless Mods have other ideas.

[Samus]

Well, a lot of Foundry goers have already had their say and been satisfied with what this map has become. I'd say this map warrants further scrutiny, but whether that comes in the form of Final Forge status or pointing out more issues that need attention is entirely up to Andy.

[Enigma]

I feel the need to bump this map up because it isn't quite getting the attention it deserves.

amen. maybe itll be the 1st map to skip the final forge stage.

you just doomed this map.

ahh well, Im sure cairns will come up with some other good ideas in time.

naa. were werent being obnoxious. i just find it a bit odd that this map has been ignored for so long. in comparison to the standards by which other maps have been created, this one is at least almost done. im not trying to rush the process at all- simply saying, as samus said, that many have already had their say, so nothing else is probably going to develop until it gets feedback from andy or keyogi.

[Guiscard]

Don't worry. it should get feedback soon. I think this is a great example of the foundry process working without the need for Mod input (until this point). If Andy doesn't need to post for the majority of a maps development thats a good sign! it means people are suggesting valid changes and you're implementing them to create a great map!

[AndyDufresne]

I'm going to give the map a good look over soon, but for now I'm just going to make a quick comment.

For sometime, the bridges have bothered me, but I didn't know why. But I think I've figured out what feels a little off, at least to my eye.

I think having the bridges so smooth feeling with the blending, feels out of place...and rubs my eye the wrong way. Perhaps if you used the texture on the bridges, it'd make them feel a little better. But anyways, that is just a little minor thing. Good work thus far!


--Andy

[KEYOGI]

Time for a detailed look I guess. The map is looking good for the most part. The first thing that stands out for me though are the mountains on the large map, the appear to be rather blurry and are doing bad bad things to my eyes.

The second thing that worries me is the height of the map. I know it has been discussed over and over again, but I really feel that you could solve this in a rather simple way. I find the title and impassables key down the bottom to be a bit out of place. Personally, I'd like to see the map widened a bit with the title up in the top-right hand corner and then the region and impassable keys underneath. I think it would look much nicer, but whether you think this is too much hard work is up to you.

Is there any chance we could see some different colours for Agate Hills and Maize Silos? These regions don't have the same soft pastel type colours of the rest of the map. I find my eyes keep getting drawn to the bottom-left corner of the map. Also, perhaps a different sea texture or just reduce the transparency of the one you have?

I like the inclusion of the beaches, it's a nice touch. The middle one in Gordonvale seems to be a funny shape to me though.

While you've opened up the map beautifully, I still get that sense of being cramped. Obviously you're going to get that with such a large number of territories, but have you considered using a different font at all? The one you have is quite bulky and I think that you could get away with using a smaller font size with a different font. If you have your reasons for sticking with this font then that's fine, but I personally feel you could come up with a better alternative.

Lastly, I find it hard to see your army shadows on the islands/sea and feel you could probably bump up the transparency a touch to make them more visible. A petty request I know, but I like army shadows to seem consistent across the whole map.

Sorry for the long post. I have been following the thread I just haven't had time to give the map a good look over. However, you can take comfort in the fact I only give detailed looks into maps that I feel are winding down in development.

[cairnswk]

I'm going to give the map a good look over soon, but for now I'm just going to make a quick comment.

For sometime, the bridges have bothered me, but I didn't know why. But I think I've figured out what feels a little off, at least to my eye.

I think having the bridges so smooth feeling with the blending, feels out of place...and rubs my eye the wrong way. Perhaps if you used the texture on the bridges, it'd make them feel a little better. But anyways, that is just a little minor thing. Good work thus far!


--Andy

Andy, thank you for your response. You know how you have a sixth sense about some things...i just knew the bridges were going to be on your list of topics. No probs with this, but I just had this feeling!

As such, I have prepared special bridges for you...your own version of banana-bridges, just for a laugh. Hope you enjoy!

[DiM]

i took the liberty of commenting on your post because i really really like this map.

Time for a detailed look I guess. The map is looking good for the most part. The first thing that stands out for me though are the mountains on the large map, the appear to be rather blurry and are doing bad bad things to my eyes.

i have the same impression from home but at work they seem ok. my conclusion is that the crt monitor makes them blurry while the tft at work displays them very crisp. maybe it's the same with you.

The second thing that worries me is the height of the map. I know it has been discussed over and over again, but I really feel that you could solve this in a rather simple way. I find the title and impassables key down the bottom to be a bit out of place. Personally, I'd like to see the map widened a bit with the title up in the top-right hand corner and then the region and impassable keys underneath. I think it would look much nicer, but whether you think this is too much hard work is up to you.

here i'd like to strongly suggest not to change anything. even if it is a bit to tall it has a certain harmony. i really like it like this. i cut/pasted the bottom part to the right and it spoils the look.

Is there any chance we could see some different colours for Agate Hills and Maize Silos? These regions don't have the same soft pastel type colours of the rest of the map. I find my eyes keep getting drawn to the bottom-left corner of the map. Also, perhaps a different sea texture or just reduce the transparency of the one you have?

agate hills seems ok but the silos are indeed a bit of a trouble. but i think finding 10 different colours was such a hard think that he did a great job. but if cairns can find better ones i'm not opposing.
i normally hate that texture used in the see but somehow here it fits.

I like the inclusion of the beaches, it's a nice touch. The middle one in Gordonvale seems to be a funny shape to me though.

i don't get this one. funny shape as in you like it? or as in you want it changed?

While you've opened up the map beautifully, I still get that sense of being cramped. Obviously you're going to get that with such a large number of territories, but have you considered using a different font at all? The one you have is quite bulky and I think that you could get away with using a smaller font size with a different font. If you have your reasons for sticking with this font then that's fine, but I personally feel you could come up with a better alternative.

i don't think the font is so much of a problem but who am i to tell? i've changed the font on my map about 10-15 times )

Lastly, I find it hard to see your army shadows on the islands/sea and feel you could probably bump up the transparency a touch to make them more visible. A petty request I know, but I like army shadows to seem consistent across the whole map.

if he can bump the transparency to make the circles more visible on the beaches while keeping them at roughly the same look as the other circles i'm ok with it.

Sorry for the long post. I have been following the thread I just haven't had time to give the map a good look over. However, you can take comfort in the fact I only give detailed looks into maps that I feel are winding down in development.

so i take it this is going in final forge?

[KEYOGI]

i have the same impression from home but at work they seem ok. my conclusion is that the crt monitor makes them blurry while the tft at work displays them very crisp. maybe it's the same with you.

No, affraid not. I just think they haven't scaled very well.

i cut/pasted the bottom part to the right and it spoils the look.

Well a cut and paste is going to make it look awful. There would be a little bit of work involved, but nothing more than half an hour max.

i don't get this one. funny shape as in you like it? or as in you want it changed?

No, not funny haha, funny as in odd.

[DiM]

i have the same impression from home but at work they seem ok. my conclusion is that the crt monitor makes them blurry while the tft at work displays them very crisp. maybe it's the same with you.

No, affraid not. I just think they haven't scaled very well.

ok then.

i cut/pasted the bottom part to the right and it spoils the look.

Well a cut and paste is going to make it look awful. There would be a little bit of work involved, but nothing more than half an hour max.

ofcourse there's some work involved. i'm just concerned with the map losing it's almost square aspect. that's why i cut/pasted to see how it would look geometricaly.

i don't get this one. funny shape as in you like it? or as in you want it changed?

No, not funny haha, funny as in odd.

i'm not familiar with the beaches on that coast but it's not such an uncommon thing to have interrupted beaches like that. depending on the different depths of the ocean near the coast and the type of currents that are forme beaches can get some weird shapes. also when people make some piers they disturb the currents and soetimes one part of the beach gets sucked of sand until it's gone and that sand is deposited on another part to form a larger wider beach. thus getting a lumpy beach

[Enigma]

I'm going to give the map a good look over soon, but for now I'm just going to make a quick comment.

For sometime, the bridges have bothered me, but I didn't know why. But I think I've figured out what feels a little off, at least to my eye.

I think having the bridges so smooth feeling with the blending, feels out of place...and rubs my eye the wrong way. Perhaps if you used the texture on the bridges, it'd make them feel a little better. But anyways, that is just a little minor thing. Good work thus far!


--Andy

Andy, thank you for your response. You know how you have a sixth sense about some things...i just knew the bridges were going to be on your list of topics. No probs with this, but I just had this feeling!

As such, I have prepared special bridges for you...your own version of banana-bridges, just for a laugh. Hope you enjoy!

AHHHHH!!!!!
i did think andy had a good point though- putting the same textures on the bridges. i hadnt missed it before- but it probably would improve the uniformity of the map.

The second thing that worries me is the height of the map. I know it has been discussed over and over again, but I really feel that you could solve this in a rather simple way. I find the title and impassables key down the bottom to be a bit out of place. Personally, I'd like to see the map widened a bit with the title up in the top-right hand corner and then the region and impassable keys underneath. I think it would look much nicer, but whether you think this is too much hard work is up to you.

here i'd like to strongly suggest not to change anything. even if it is a bit to tall it has a certain harmony. i really like it like this. i cut/pasted the bottom part to the right and it spoils the look.

i strongly agree. i think if anything this would make it look even more cramped.

While you've opened up the map beautifully, I still get that sense of being cramped. Obviously you're going to get that with such a large number of territories, but have you considered using a different font at all? The one you have is quite bulky and I think that you could get away with using a smaller font size with a different font. If you have your reasons for sticking with this font then that's fine, but I personally feel you could come up with a better alternative.

i don't think the font is so much of a problem but who am i to tell? i've changed the font on my map about 10-15 times )

lol dim- and ive been one of the ones who keeps bugging you about it but i agree, i havent gotten the same bulky impression on this map.

for the rest- the lil changes on the army circles and unblurring the mountains would be good. i like the present colours- but if cairnswk wants to find another colour that works just as well i dont think anyone would complain. i just dont think its necessary.

congrats cairnswk nitpickings this intense must mean ur almost done

[DiM]

While you've opened up the map beautifully, I still get that sense of being cramped. Obviously you're going to get that with such a large number of territories, but have you considered using a different font at all? The one you have is quite bulky and I think that you could get away with using a smaller font size with a different font. If you have your reasons for sticking with this font then that's fine, but I personally feel you could come up with a better alternative.

i don't think the font is so much of a problem but who am i to tell? i've changed the font on my map about 10-15 times )

lol dim- and ive been one of the ones who keeps bugging you about it but i agree, i havent gotten the same bulky impression on this map.

i know i still have nightmares about it

therapy hasn't helped much either

[cairnswk]

Time for a detailed look I guess. The map is looking good for the most part. The first thing that stands out for me though are the mountains on the large map, the appear to be rather blurry and are doing bad bad things to my eyes.

Yes, as Teya pointed that out previously, i have yet to attend to making those mountains crisper on the large version. That will happen shortly.

The second thing that worries me is the height of the map. I know it has been discussed over and over again, but I really feel that you could solve this in a rather simple way. I find the title and impassables key down the bottom to be a bit out of place. Personally, I'd like to see the map widened a bit with the title up in the top-right hand corner and then the region and impassable keys underneath. I think it would look much nicer, but whether you think this is too much hard work is up to you.

Yes, i think it would be too much work at this stage, this being a major re-design that could have been attempted well before this. I feel it would be too much work after I have spent countless hours re-adjusting the large map and perfecting the army bonuses etc. Also I like to be able to see who my opponents are on the small map, and this current width allows that to happen. The title and passable/unpassable legend offers no practical advantage in being up near where the current region legend is. All it would do is take real estate on the side of the screen and push the game opponent names off the screen. I don't wish that to occur. I do agree however, that if this had been thought of way back when, then perhaps it might have been a good consideration but not now.

Is there any chance we could see some different colours for Agate Hills and Maize Silos? These regions don't have the same soft pastel type colours of the rest of the map. I find my eyes keep getting drawn to the bottom-left corner of the map. Also, perhaps a different sea texture or just reduce the transparency of the one you have?

All the territory colour issues were discussed way-back when starting P1. However, I will see what I can come up with for Maize Silos. If anything, my eyes are drawn to the Tinaroo Dam in the centre of the map. Agate Hills and the sea colours won't change, as I feel this issue has been previously settled.

I like the inclusion of the beaches, it's a nice touch. The middle one in Gordonvale seems to be a funny shape to me though.

OK, but i really find nothing odd about it. Call it "artistic license".

While you've opened up the map beautifully, I still get that sense of being cramped. Obviously you're going to get that with such a large number of territories, but have you considered using a different font at all? The one you have is quite bulky and I think that you could get away with using a smaller font size with a different font. If you have your reasons for sticking with this font then that's fine, but I personally feel you could come up with a better alternative.

I explored several different fonts on this and earlier map versions, and decided that this particular font called Short Hand at 13px was the best for this free-style style of tropical small map. This issue has been previously discussed way-back when starting PP3&4 when the map was going through its infant changes. Andy commented on this Short Hand font on P6

But I think I like the font choice, it flows with the map

, and this has been the favourite since...everyone has no problem with it.

Lastly, I find it hard to see your army shadows on the islands/sea and feel you could probably bump up the transparency a touch to make them more visible. A petty request I know, but I like army shadows to seem consistent across the whole map.

OK, I'll see what I can do.

Sorry for the long post. I have been following the thread I just haven't had time to give the map a good look over. However, you can take comfort in the fact I only give detailed looks into maps that I feel are winding down in development.

Keyogi, i want to say this, but I don't want to start WWIII and putting you off-side - having a long post is no problem. I appreciate since changing to your new role you have been in demand all over the place. However, I do note that you have made some posts on this map previously, and I have adjusted these where possible and justifyable.

With your statement:

However, you can take comfort in the fact I only give detailed looks into maps that I feel are winding down in development.

, I think this is not the right thing to do to map creaters...to come in at the last minute and ask big changes like you have done here. I think that everyone respects your comments, and you as one of the moderators should be involved in these design issues just like everyone else is involved along the way. Had you ask for the title changes above to be made earlier in the development stage, I would very much have given them credence. But I do think it is unfair that you ask them now, when as you say "the map is winding down in development".

Your opening statement "Time for a detailed look I guess" also did not sit well on my ears/eyes/brain. Using the words "I guess" seems as though you are doing it begrudgingly, although I know this is not probably your intention. I felt rather put out because of this statement. I'm sorry Keyogi, but i was looking for something more professional than that...especially from a fellow Australian. However, I have got over this little bump, and hopefully this map, for the sheer interest, time and benefit of those who have contributed throughout its development to reach this stage, will possibly go ahead to Final Forge....bananas or not!

[cairnswk]

Perhaps if you used the texture on the bridges, it'd make them feel a little better. But anyways, that is just a little minor thing. Good work thus far!
--Andy

Andy, I'll attend to that next version shortly.

[cairnswk]

i know i still have nightmares about it

therapy hasn't helped much either

DiM, my hat off to you!!

[cairnswk]

Perhaps if you used the texture on the bridges, it'd make them feel a little better. But anyways, that is just a little minor thing. Good work thus far!
--Andy

Done Andy in the map below....

Is there any chance we could see some different colours for Agate Hills and Maize Silos?

Maize Silos colour changed as below....

I find it hard to see your army shadows on the islands/sea and feel you could probably bump up the transparency a touch to make them more visible.

Army shadows transparency increased on islands and also on Bananaland.

[DiM]

me like it, me want to be on beach under banana tree

[Guiscard]

Just wanted to say what a great job you're doing acting on all the great advice suggested, cairns... A really lovely map. I have spotted one thing that personally looks a little weird. Where you have the one way pass graphic in the legend, I think it could do with a couple of mountains either side as it is on the map to put it in context, especially as you have the river running under the bridge in the legend too.

[AndyDufresne]

Final Forge

---Cairns Coral Coast Map has reached the ‘Final Forge’ Stage. I've revived this thread from the pits of the Foundry furnace and have examined the contents. Nearly every major concern has been addressed. If there are any other current concerns, please make your voice heard. There will be at least two days (but may extend pass that) for you to post any objections; if no one has posted any protest after two days the map will be deemed finished with the 'Foundry Brand' of approval and will be submitted for live play. If after two days there is still discussion going on it may continue until said discussion has reached the conclusion that the map has reached its final and polished version.

Post questions and concerns if any.


--Andy

[DiM]

weee. finally. congrats cairns.

[Enigma]

go cairns!!