Mississippi challenges Roe VS Wade, loves God

[john9blue]

I don't know what that has to do with it, or what you're trying to say. But I think I need to dumb this down.

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

if by "dumb this down" you mean "generalize your statement to become a tautology" then sure...

[Juan_Bottom]

He's a troll now right? I've been here so long that I still see people the way that they were two years ago.

[Aradhus]

John certainly expresses his contempt, for all things not thought of by John, in a more forceful manner than he once did.

[john9blue]

so "dumbing things down" for me isn't trolling?

and i wasn't trolling at all, my question was serious. if you think europe is so much better, why are you still here? the only reason would be if you were making significant efforts to change our current politics.

[Juan_Bottom]

and i wasn't trolling at all, my question was serious.

No it wasn't. Each of your responses was half-retarded. I just can't believe that you're half-retarded.

if you think europe is so much better, why are you still here?

#1 i'm an American and I have as much a duty to this nation as anyone else

#2 i've got a cousin who moved back to Norway, and though we talked about me going there too, It's not something that's in my plans

#3 i'm poor

#4 my family is here motherf^cker

#5 you're a f*cking retard if you think that all the smart people in this country should move away. Are you really Ann Coulter? Less than 9% of Americans approve of Congress right now. Do you think that 91% of America should move to Canada? I've always thought the better of you J_B II.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... erformance

the only reason would be if you were making significant efforts to change our current politics.

F*ck politics, I'm a felon. Religion is my battle because science is where my heart has always been.

[john9blue]

#1 i'm an American and I have as much a duty to this nation as anyone else

#2 i've got a cousin who moved back to Norway, and though we talked about me going there too, It's not something that's in my plans

#3 i'm poor

#4 my family is here motherf^cker

#5 you're a f*cking retard if you think that all the smart people in this country should move away. Are you really Ann Coulter? Less than 9% of Americans approve of Congress right now. Do you think that 91% of America should move to Canada? I've always thought the better of you J_B II.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... erformance

i don't think that 91% of americans believe that america is a nation full of dumbasses with a backwards economic system and a tyrannical political structure.

and what do you mean by "duty to nation"? you just happened to be born here; blind nationalism is an irrational and dangerous thing. and this is the same nation that labeled you a "felon" even though (at least to me) you don't seem like any sort of menace to society.

i just don't understand how you can think the things that you do about america, and still voluntarily live here. obviously america has to be doing something right.

it's unfortunate that you all have to give me the "scotty treatment", i.e. labeling me a troll instead of actually addressing my points.

[Juan_Bottom]

i don't think that 91% of americans believe that america is a nation full of dumbasses with a backwards economic system and a tyrannical political structure.

Dude, think about that.
In that case, that number might be too low.

and what do you mean by "duty to nation"? you just happened to be born here; blind nationalism is an irrational and dangerous thing

It's not about nationalism. I don't believe in American Exceptionalism, and at times I'm as outspoken as Saxi against our government. I think that we should be turning our humanism and our patriotism inward instead of outward. We have to fix our home nation before we fix the world. But of course, we can't also ignore the world's problems either. It's the truest path to make a worldwide Utopia. Isn't it?

Science, Education, and at times even Ridicule are our great tools.

and this is the same nation that labeled you a "felon" even though (at least to me) you don't seem like any sort of menace to society

All monsters hang out regularly on internet gaming website forums. You've met jimboston and pimpdave.

obviously america has to be doing something right

Meh, you can say the same thing about Sierra Leon. Villagers were getting slaughtered there, and yet the people stayed.

it's unfortunate that you all have to give me the "scotty treatment", i.e. labeling me a troll instead of actually addressing my points.

I don't believe it.
I'd apologize, but I can't see any truth to it.

[MeDeFe]

I don't know what that has to do with it, or what you're trying to say. But I think I need to dumb this down.

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

if by "dumb this down" you mean "generalize your statement to become a tautology" then sure...

And what would the tautology be?

[PLAYER57832]

so "dumbing things down" for me isn't trolling?

and i wasn't trolling at all, my question was serious. if you think europe is so much better, why are you still here? the only reason would be if you were making significant efforts to change our current politics.

Apparently you never heard that the highest form of Patriotism is criticism.

[PLAYER57832]

i don't think that 91% of americans believe that america is a nation full of dumbasses with a backwards economic system and a tyrannical political structure.

Dude, think about that.
In that case, that number might be too low.

They don't see it that way, but I think that is the point.

[john9blue]

And what would the tautology be?

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

this will always be true unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas.

Apparently you never heard that the highest form of Patriotism is criticism.

sure, if you criticize the government.

but criticizing 90% of the population?

[PLAYER57832]

Apparently you never heard that the highest form of Patriotism is criticism.

sure, if you criticize the government.

but criticizing 90% of the population?

When appropriate, absolutely. Also, the two often go hand-in-hand, that is part of being in a Republic/Democracy.

[Lootifer]

Im in this thread, agreeing with Player...

WHATS GOING ON!!?!?!?!

[MeDeFe]

And what would the tautology be?

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

this will always be true unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas.

Ah, I see, a slight misunderstanding of the meaning of 'tautology'. It's nothing major, don't worry. However, you did just give a formal reason why JB's statement is not a tautology.

[john9blue]

And what would the tautology be?

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

this will always be true unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas.

Ah, I see, a slight misunderstanding of the meaning of 'tautology'. It's nothing major, don't worry. However, you did just give a formal reason why JB's statement is not a tautology.

well let's look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.

it can be reasonably assumed that the statement "some European ideas can better our own" is correct. plus, it's impossible to disprove. plus, juan's argument is based around this fact. therefore, his argument is tautological.

[Metsfanmax]

And what would the tautology be?

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

this will always be true unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas.

Ah, I see, a slight misunderstanding of the meaning of 'tautology'. It's nothing major, don't worry. However, you did just give a formal reason why JB's statement is not a tautology.

well let's look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.

it can be reasonably assumed that the statement "some European ideas can better our own" is correct. plus, it's impossible to disprove. plus, juan's argument is based around this fact. therefore, his argument is tautological.

That is not what we call a tautological statement, just a subjective one.

[john9blue]

well let's look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.

it can be reasonably assumed that the statement "some European ideas can better our own" is correct. plus, it's impossible to disprove. plus, juan's argument is based around this fact. therefore, his argument is tautological.

That is not what we call a tautological statement, just a subjective one.

i don't think it's subjective; the statement holds true regardless of who says it

i mean, i can be a vicious grammar nazi, but i choose not to be, because ideas are more important than the (imperfect) form that they take

[MeDeFe]

And what would the tautology be?

The point is that some European ideas can better our own.

this will always be true unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas.

Ah, I see, a slight misunderstanding of the meaning of 'tautology'. It's nothing major, don't worry. However, you did just give a formal reason why JB's statement is not a tautology.

well let's look it up

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology

Tautology also means a series of self-reinforcing statements that cannot be disproved because the statements depend on the assumption that they are already correct.

it can be reasonably assumed that the statement "some European ideas can better our own" is correct. plus, it's impossible to disprove. plus, juan's argument is based around this fact. therefore, his argument is tautological.

And what's the series in "some European ideas can better our own"? I see a single statement there, but not a series.

Disproving the statement is actually very easy, implement all European ideas that are "reasonably assumed" to be better than corresponding American ideas, and see if the situation improves, remains unchanged, or deteriorates. If the third possibility manifests a case can be made that all European ideas are worse than all corresponding American ideas.


Since you appear to have missed it before: When you said " unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas" you already conceded that it's possible to believe that European ideas to be worse than American ideas. But even if you disregard hypothetical mental states, which, frankly, have nothing to do with tautologies, it's possible that all European ideas are worse than all American ideas, regardless of whether anyone believes that to be the case or not.

[john9blue]

And what's the series in "some European ideas can better our own"? I see a single statement there, but not a series.

any statement in his argument is a tautology so long as the premises are tautologies.

Disproving the statement is actually very easy, implement all European ideas that are "reasonably assumed" to be better than corresponding American ideas, and see if the situation improves, remains unchanged, or deteriorates. If the third possibility manifests a case can be made that all European ideas are worse than all corresponding American ideas.

that would prove that the sum or net result of all european ideas is worse than that of all american ideas. it says nothing about the ideas individually.

and i said that it can be reasonably assumed that such an idea exists. i never said how we can determine which ideas qualify.

Since you appear to have missed it before: When you said " unless one somehow believes that all american ideas are better than all european ideas" you already conceded that it's possible to believe that European ideas to be worse than American ideas. But even if you disregard hypothetical mental states, which, frankly, have nothing to do with tautologies, it's possible that all European ideas are worse than all American ideas, regardless of whether anyone believes that to be the case or not.

of course. tautologies don't have to be "necessarily true" in a strictly logical sense... they can be "necessarily true" in reality or inductive reasoning. the meaning of the word "tautology" is dependent on context, like the meaning of any word

[natty dread]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

[thegreekdog]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

Wait... you think it's okay to admit when you are wrong? Since when?

[john9blue]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

hmm... when you know that someone you hate has just won an argument... pretend that they're still wrong and just won't admit it... but don't actually disprove them... because you can't...

i'm taking notes natty!

[natty dread]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

Wait... you think it's okay to admit when you are wrong? Since when?

I wonder if you'd be posting this if I was someone whose opinions you'd agree with.

i'm taking notes natty!

Shove them up your ass, john.

[thegreekdog]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

Wait... you think it's okay to admit when you are wrong? Since when?

I wonder if you'd be posting this if I was someone whose opinions you'd agree with.

I'm not sure. If someone I agreed with was supremely arrogant to the point of being obnoxious in his or her posts on a regular basis and if that person never admitted when he or she was wrong even when he or she was wrong, I would probably post that, yes.

Or, alternatively, I could have been having some fun (or is that activity reserved for AoG and Saxi only?).

[natty dread]

John, it's ok to admit you were wrong.

Wait... you think it's okay to admit when you are wrong? Since when?

I wonder if you'd be posting this if I was someone whose opinions you'd agree with.

I'm not sure. If someone I agreed with was supremely arrogant to the point of being obnoxious in his or her posts on a regular basis and if that person never admitted when he or she was wrong even when he or she was wrong, I would probably post that, yes.

Or, alternatively, I could have been having some fun (or is that activity reserved for AoG and Saxi only?).

Well, thanks for your opinion. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong, I've been wrong about several things and said it. You just see a small part of my posts and form an opinion about me based on incomplete data. I suppose it's easier to keep people categorized that way... but hey, whatever works for you.