How Do You Stop a Crazed Gunman?

[Woodruff]

There are survival techniques to escape a gunman, stay low, try to move behind obstacles, zig zag your flight path.

Yeah, play dead... etc. Kids tried them. Kids still died. A lot of those things don't work when you are swimming. And, a lot of those things don't work when you are a paniced teenager.

I'm just saying, it is possible to cut down on the body count without pulling out guns and trying to kill the shooter. Obviously it won't work in all cases, but there are methods to increase survival rates.

yup.

Phatscotty: The New Pimpdave

[Baron Von PWN]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

Unfortunately, this is what happens all too often.
/quote]


Apparently that was a security guard. Any cases where it was a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun? Why wouldn't it get national headlines? Crazy guy starts shooting people a random bystander shoots him in the head ending the massacre. Seems headline worthy to me.

[Gypsys Kiss]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

Unfortunately, this is what happens all too often.
/quote]


Apparently that was a security guard. Any cases where it was a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun? Why wouldn't it get national headlines? Crazy guy starts shooting people a random bystander shoots him in the head ending the massacre. Seems headline worthy to me.

Had the gunmen started shooting people or was he just holding them hostage? If its the latter then the case is irrelevant because we are not talking about a hostage situation. He may have had no intention of shooting until fired upon.

[safariguy5]

Ok scotty. You say the best way to stop someone on a shooting rampage is for some bystander to have a gun and shoot the rampager. What I would like to know is if there is a single documented case where nut job starts a shooting rampage but is put down by a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun. I seriously curious to see if you have more than bluster to back up your claims.

Yes. I tried looking for it the other day. It was fairly recent, I think it was a Florida school council, where some guy with a gun was chiding the council and holding them hostage, and some dude in the back crept in the room and shot the gunman in the leg, and the gunman managed to lunge at his target still and pop off a couple shots but the hero shot him again,and no innocent people died. It happens from time to time. I think the gunman might have lived, or maybe the guy shot himself? I can't remember but you can bet when it happens it does not get national headlines. I know it was shown in this forum.

Unfortunately, this is what happens all too often.
/quote]


Apparently that was a security guard. Any cases where it was a civilian bystander who happened to have a gun? Why wouldn't it get national headlines? Crazy guy starts shooting people a random bystander shoots him in the head ending the massacre. Seems headline worthy to me.

Had the gunmen started shooting people or was he just holding them hostage? If its the latter then the case is irrelevant because we are not talking about a hostage situation. He may have had no intention of shooting until fired upon.

I do believe he was holding some members of a committee hostage, I think one of them tries to reason with him before the guard took care of the gunman.

[Phatscotty]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.

Moving on

[jimboston]

Well if I was somewhere and somebody started shooting people, I personally would shoot him. I pack as does my wife, they are to be used as self defense....speech won't work at that point...if you tried to talk him out of it and reminded him that it was a crime, you would probably be the next victim.

Irony is always lost on Americans

Hey now!

[Woodruff]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.
Moving on

Reality be damned.

[Phatscotty]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.
Moving on

Reality be damned.

The only reality is, person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved. That's what happened.

[PLAYER57832]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.
Moving on

Reality be damned.

The only reality is, person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved. That's what happened.

And this would be applicable to a youth camp.... or to your suggestion that guns be made legal how? (never mind that they already are legal.. I suppose you mean people should be forced to carry?)

[Phatscotty]

Whats the question? I think it would have been great if someone there did have a gun, but why you would assume everyone or anyone should be forced to carry a gun is a conclusion I will not be joining with you.

[Metsfanmax]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.
Moving on

Reality be damned.

The only reality is, person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved. That's what happened.

Yes, people were saved by someone who had formal training in security and who was trained in how to use a firearm in a police setting. I don't have a problem with such people carrying a firearm on them while they are working in a security setting. This does not prove your point that if we allow everyone to purchase and carry a pistol, more lives would be saved.

[PLAYER57832]

Whats the question? I think it would have been great if someone there did have a gun, but why you would assume everyone or anyone should be forced to carry a gun is a conclusion I will not be joining with you.

EDITED (original statement was that Phattscotty started the thread on guns in the camp.. in fact, I did it, I had forgotten).
Well, you have made multiple comments to the effect that guns are not legal in Norway and how it would be different if someone had only had a gun, etc. You ignored anything anyone said about both training and pure chance being critical. You gave an example, but it was of someone specifically trained..and in a hostage situation, not a random gun incident.

Apparently you want to use this incident to prove something about guns, but you never really said what that was.

In our country and Norway, people can choose to carry a gun or not. Those who carry a gun in the US are more likely (statistically) to be a victim than victor, for various reasons. Those There is a slight "blip" iin some data because people who live in violent areas are more likely to feel they should have a gun, but are also more likely to be subjected to violance. However, even aside from that, the fact is that more people have guns than have the training to truly use them. Of those who have the training, only a few have the training to use them in direct armed conflict situations..and that even includes many in the military, because using an automatic rifle in a company, with back up is quite a different story than using a pistol against an armed person, particularly with civilians around.

[Phatscotty]

No I didn't! THAT'S YOUR THREAD! YOU are the one who did not bother!

OMG LMAO

you are confused

[PLAYER57832]

No I didn't! THAT'S YOUR THREAD! YOU are the one who did not bother!

OMG LMAO

you are confused

You are correct, I was trying to draw the discussion away from the condolence thread. I will edit my above comment.

[Phatscotty]

You know I don't like rubbing it in peoples faces. I didn't quote you on purpose so go ahead and edit it and it will be between U n me

[Lootifer]

It's hard to tell if Scotty is a really good troll or an idiot, :S

[Phatscotty]

It's hard to tell if Scotty is a really good troll or an idiot, :S

I know you are but what am I?

[Lootifer]

Your biggest fan.

[Phatscotty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uWTecKNyg8

Knife Robbery Ends In A Bloodbath Gun Save Lives

[Woodruff]

person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved.
Moving on

Reality be damned.

The only reality is, person with gun was there, crazed gunman stopped, lives were saved. That's what happened.

I'm not at all surprised that's your total summation of the reality of the situation, even though you're trying to use it as justification for an entirely different issue. Which also isn't surprising, given that your lack of integrity in the fora has become almost legendary.

It's hard to tell if Scotty is a really good troll or an idiot, :S

No, it really isn't. He's pimpdave.

[Neoteny]

The crazed gunman hesitated before pulling the trigger. Did this child feel pain? Was what he was doing really right? Yes, he decided, smirking to himself. This is god's work. His finger had barely depressed the trigger when a boomerang swooped in from the ether, striking the gunman in the temple. He collapsed instantly.

Three miles away, THORNHEART put on a second pair of sunglasses and mused:

"I guess you could say, 'What goes around, comes around."

YYYEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

[natty dread]

The crazed gunman hesitated before pulling the trigger. Did this child feel pain? Was what he was doing really right? Yes, he decided, smirking to himself. This is god's work. His finger had barely depressed the trigger when a boomerang swooped in from the ether, striking the gunman in the temple with pinpoint accuracy. He collapsed instantly.

Three miles away, THORNHEART put on a second pair of sunglasses and mused:

"I guess you could say, 'What goes around, comes around."

YYYEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!

phixed

[Neoteny]

I figure that hitting someone in the head with a boomerang from three miles away implies a rather precise aim.

[natty dread]

It's not a proper THORNHEART story without pinpoint accuracy

[Neoteny]

It's not a proper THORNHEART story without pimpdave telling it. The spirit of the meme is there, which is really all that counts.