Political Thread..... VOTE HERE!

[reverend_kyle]

Well actually I'm an ordainded member of a clergy also...ahem...

******************************************************

This notice hereby confirms that

<Name and Address edited for privacy>

is a ordained member of the clergy of
The Church of Spiritual Humanism
Date of Ordination: November 27, 2002
Ordained by R. A. Zorger, President
http://www.SpiritualHumanism.org

******************************************************

Hehe...


--Andy

Universal Life Church here.

[TitusFinn]

[I expect nothing less then "2 birds of a feather flocking together". So why bother posting? It doesn't matter if this kids in the right or wrong...YOU as a liberal will back him every time.

YOU as a conservative will back a conservative every time. So what's your point?

[TitusFinn]

(never would win in Idaho) .

I have an Uncle that's a mayor in Idaho. Also I must say the education in Idaho rocks compared to Cali...heck, everywhere else rocks compared to Cali

[Whitefields]

I voted Right, and I'm going to summarize my take on the issues.

For starters, Abortion. There's a hot button item. I'm defenitly conservative here. Killing infants, or any innocent is wrong. I don't understand how this became an issue in the first place. Its comparable to the moral issue of the 1800s, slavery. Its wrong to own another human being. I have faith in America and hope that just as the bonds of slavery were broken, the lives of the unborn can be protected. I do however, understand that women should have the choice for abortion when their life is in danger or in the case of rape when they didn't have a choice to begin with. But in the case of rape, I do hope that the woman will choose life for the child. If they can't take care of the child, at least put the child up for adoption. And as for the arguement that women have a right to an abortion, that is dead wrong because that takes away the rights of another, and that being the most sacred right of all; life! Thats like saying that since people have the right to property, they have the right to own other people! Rights that violate other's rights are wrong.

Government, specificly government bucracy, is to big. Way too big. I once read that for every tax dollar that goes into DC, 15 cents stays in DC! That is rediculous! I know that they don't need that much money, all the buacrats are concerned about is growing the programs. And growing them. And growing them. Unlike businesses, where growth comes from profits, buacratic growth comes from spending! The more they spend, the more they get. There is no responsibilty for American's hard earned money and sadly its the middle class that has to pay for the brunt of it (and thats because of tax loop holes which I'll talk about next). I'm positive that they could save a lot of money if they weren't given a whole lot of it in the first place. Small business owners and independent film makers are great example of creativity thriving due to financial constraints. The same could apply to government programs.

About taxes, there are two things that need to be done: 1st Close tax loop holes, because rich guys get away with paying very little all the time. 2nd Lower taxes across the board. I think we can all agree with that, eh?

And President Bush, I don't know if Republicans or Democrats talk about him more. He is a polarizing figure, but I have a lot of respect for him and what he is doing for our country. Obviously I'm in the minority on this one, well at least since his poll numbers dropped, but I approve of his performance. Probably why his numbers are so low is because he isn't a political oppurtunist. A lot of people are wondering how low politicians will stoop for temporary political gain, while Bush has is sights set on the future.

He is right about Iraq, we've got to see this through. We owe it to those who have died, to the Iraqis and to Democracy. People see the numerous terrorists that have poured into Iraq. The destruction is tragic, but this is a temporary sacrifice with huge future pay off. If we hold out and defeat terrorism in Iraq it will send a message to the muslim world that America will not back down in the war on terror. We are fighting for the minds and hearts of a people on the other side of the world. If Iraq becomes a full fledged democracy with all the blessings of prosperity and liberty, what will that tell the muslim world? That freedom defeats terrorism. This isn't the first idealogical war that was fought and won with patiance and strength.

During the Cold War we had a very different enemy, another world super power with a whole lot of nukes. However, that too was an idealogical war. Before the Soviet Union fell we had to show them that capitalism wastes communism and that we would not back down. Here the primary issue isn't econmic models, but rather freedom. Terrorists want to take away our freedom and by showing the musilm people that freedom wastes oppression and not backing down we will win the war on terror.

And as a final note, I have a lot of respect for the men and women in our armed forces fighting for freedom on the other side of the world and I think they deserve our full support.

[AndyDufresne]

I'm sorry **points to the door** all thought out posts must exit this thread. Kidding of course! Nice to see a few posts with substance.


--Andy

[Bozo]

First off ( I didn't 'quote this cause it would take up to much room) 'About taxes, there are two things that need to be done: 1st Close tax loop holes, because rich guys get away with paying very little all the time. 2nd Lower taxes across the board. I think we can all agree with that, eh.

A. Theres a reason that rich guys are rich and if youre not smart or lucky enough to become rich accepet move on, because complaining to get your way was not what this country was founded on. If the rich have money that means that they will save us Money For example Wall-Mart saves us money because of tax loopholes and I dont knowif you know about Costco, (Its Kinda a supermarket/Wall-mart were you can buy anyting inclding lunch) but it saves the average person lots of Money.

B. If we lower taes in general that means that the governemnt will have less money that ever and it need the money more that ever because it costs alought of coin to fight a war over sea. So that means that the pothole outside your house won't get fixed or your kid who goes to public school will have a textbook dating back to before the landing on the moon, or even in Jail its costs the government more than $ 50,000 a year to keep a inmate in Jail so thats were your'e 85 cents are going.

What you think is good for you is not necisarialy good for everyone

[Whitefields]

I have nothing wrong with rich people being rich. My family is well to do and I plan on being rich some day. And you make a very good point that the consumer does save a lot of money due to the tax loops. The problem is that they can afford the attornies, a lot of Americans can't. I think a lot aren't benefiting from the tax loop holes nearly as much. So thats why we should eliminate tax loop holes and then lower taxes, so that rich Americans aren't the only ones benefiting from lower taxes. As for not having enough money, I think that the government could save a lot of money and that a lot of programs are a waste. And to me the national deficeit is just a big number, it represents the investments of lots of people into our government, a lot of Americans! As long as the economy is booming, which it is (due to tax cuts I might add), our government won't have any trouble financially.

[jay_a2j]

[I expect nothing less then "2 birds of a feather flocking together". So why bother posting? It doesn't matter if this kids in the right or wrong...YOU as a liberal will back him every time.

YOU as a conservative will back a conservative every time. So what's your point?

WRONG! I didn't back Rush when he said there was nothing wrong with selling our ports to Arab nations. I don't back Bush for dragging his feet protecting our southern boarder. I don't back him for the way he's fighting this war....MORE AIRPOWER....means less American lives. These are just a few of many.

[jay_a2j]

I aree with most of what Whitefields said in his/her first post. The only thing I would add is that the rich having money (ie. not taxing them to death), benifits our ecconomy in several ways: it provides jobs (by opening or expaning new business), creates lower cost products (as Wal-Mart was mentioned), and the lower classes, like myself, spend our money in these places keeping the money flow moving.

Now please tell me how giving out govornment handouts helps our ecconomy (ie. welfare)? The welfare sytem was created after WWI for widowed wives who lost there husbands in the war. Today it is so abused it is sickning. It has become a excuse for many to not work. Why work when you can get it from Uncle Sam for free? Its sickning. If I was president the first thing I would do is cut TONS of unessisary spending. And screw the special interests! I wouldn't be for sale. On welfare? You better have a valid medical reason or ya wouldn't get nada. And that would allow you cut taxes and still have the money for things like this war on terror.

[thegrimsleeper]

MORE AIRPOWER....means less American lives.

More airpower ALSO means more innocent Iraqi lives, you asshole!!

[reverend_kyle]

MORE AIRPOWER....means less American lives.

More airpower ALSO means more innocent Iraqi lives, you asshole!!

We've established that he doesnt care about people...


Now on to you saying that you didnt back those conservatives when you disagreeed with them. I wouldnt back a liberal if i disagreed with what they are saying just because they are a liberal. Taht would be drinking the koolaid(something you know alot about). Like every time my friend says that we shouldnt support kyoto I about bitchslap the mother fucker.

[jay_a2j]

MORE AIRPOWER....means less American lives.

More airpower ALSO means more innocent Iraqi lives, you asshole!!

you mean more terrorist lives

[Darkfire001]

I'm a Libertarian personally, a true conservative

EDIT: Nice test, it showed me as Libertarian as well lol, more accurate then I would have thought

[thegrimsleeper]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

[jay_a2j]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

[heavycola]

The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts

yeah cos that's worked really well so far



Unemployment is inevitable, and is growing in the US from what I hear. By stopping welfare you would create a huge underclass of desperate, destitute people living in utter misery. Sure the system is abused - but not by everyone and not by the majority. That is just propaganda. Either tighten up the system or accept that the needs of the many outweigh the bad behaviour of the few.

And if you think living on welfare is an easy ride - go and see for yourself. It's not, and I speak from personal experience. It kept me going - barely, but i was able to keep a roof over my head - when I had nothing and for that I will be forever grateful. Like the NHS in britain, welfare demonstrates that people still care abot each other. Thank f*ck you're never going to be in charge.

[reverend_kyle]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

grim sleeper said "more innocent iraqi lives"

you said "you mean more terrorist lives"


that leads yiou to believe that you believe innocent iraqis are terrorists.

[Bozo]

The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts

yeah cos that's worked really well so far



Unemployment is inevitable, and is growing in the US from what I hear. By stopping welfare you would create a huge underclass of desperate, destitute people living in utter misery. Sure the system is abused - but not by everyone and not by the majority. That is just propaganda. Either tighten up the system or accept that the needs of the many outweigh the bad behaviour of the few.

And if you think living on welfare is an easy ride - go and see for yourself. It's not, and I speak from personal experience. It kept me going - barely, but i was able to keep a roof over my head - when I had nothing and for that I will be forever grateful. Like the NHS in britain, welfare demonstrates that people still care abot each other. Thank f*ck you're never going to be in charge.

I got to agree with you there on the wellfare system yes it is abused and yes it is needed, there must be some allterniative to the wellfare system.
( Besides Getting A Job )

[jay_a2j]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

grim sleeper said "more innocent iraqi lives"

you said "you mean more terrorist lives"


that leads yiou to believe that you believe innocent iraqis are terrorists.

No, that leads YOU to believe that, I KNOW what I ment (see previous post)

[reverend_kyle]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

grim sleeper said "more innocent iraqi lives"

you said "you mean more terrorist lives"


that leads yiou to believe that you believe innocent iraqis are terrorists.

No, that leads YOU to believe that, I KNOW what I ment (see previous post)

So you believe with airraids we are only killing terrorists...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were air raids correct?

[jay_a2j]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

grim sleeper said "more innocent iraqi lives"

you said "you mean more terrorist lives"


that leads yiou to believe that you believe innocent iraqis are terrorists.

No, that leads YOU to believe that, I KNOW what I ment (see previous post)

So you believe with airraids we are only killing terrorists...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were air raids correct?

If it wasn't for Hiroshima and Nagasaki you might be speaking Japanese right now. Those bombs were dropped to end the war.... I think it worked.

[AndyDufresne]

Not only to end the war, but probably to keep Russia from gaining more power. Towards the end of the war we started to look at them different...then as we all know the Cold War came about.


-Andy

[strike wolf]

You are such a douche, jay. Just because they're brown doesn't make them terrorists. Take off that hood, it's obscuring your vision.

LOL! Don't assume I'm a racist cause I'm FAR from that! The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts. I never said all Iraqi's were terrorists. Those are YOUR words, keep them out of my mouth.

grim sleeper said "more innocent iraqi lives"

you said "you mean more terrorist lives"


that leads yiou to believe that you believe innocent iraqis are terrorists.

No, that leads YOU to believe that, I KNOW what I ment (see previous post)

So you believe with airraids we are only killing terrorists...

Correct me if I'm wrong...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were air raids correct?

If it wasn't for Hiroshima and Nagasaki you might be speaking Japanese right now. Those bombs were dropped to end the war.... I think it worked.

At the point the bombs were dropped the US and all their allies were winning the war against Japan and were even close to their full defeat. The problem was that the Japanese would fight until the very last man was dead in battle and an attack on Japan would cause untold deaths on both sides. President Truman based his decision to drop the bombs as a quicker, less bloody way to end the war not as the only way to win.

[strike wolf]

Not only to end the war, but probably to keep Russia from gaining more power. Towards the end of the war we started to look at them different...then as we all know the Cold War came about.


-Andy

We originally wanted to keep the Russians from taking Berlin as well.

[jay_a2j]

The AIRPOWER could be directed at known TERRORIST hideouts

yeah cos that's worked really well so far



Unemployment is inevitable, and is growing in the US from what I hear. By stopping welfare you would create a huge underclass of desperate, destitute people living in utter misery. Sure the system is abused - but not by everyone and not by the majority. That is just propaganda. Either tighten up the system or accept that the needs of the many outweigh the bad behaviour of the few.

And if you think living on welfare is an easy ride - go and see for yourself. It's not, and I speak from personal experience. It kept me going - barely, but i was able to keep a roof over my head - when I had nothing and for that I will be forever grateful. Like the NHS in britain, welfare demonstrates that people still care abot each other. Thank f*ck you're never going to be in charge.

I've tasted the rotten fruit called welfare. And the day I left I told the social worker that I'd get a cardboard box and live on her front steps (welfare office) before I EVER came back to welfare. Years later.... I'm making more money then her. It was SELF-DETERMINATION that made the difference, not welfare. Welfare KEEPS people down. And to those who use it for a time to "get going" good for you. The facts are many people use welfare as a source of income because they don't want to work.