Power Rankings

by **Commander62890** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:46 pm

Ljex, I disagree - I think the Patriots were a better team that year. The better team lost, and the Giants were Champions.

Think about it this way - if the Pats played the Giants 5 times, they'd probably win 4 of those games. The Pats were ridiculous that year. The only chance the Giants had was to play amazing AND get lucky, which they did.

I think there is a lot of luck in any sport.

by **gannable** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:51 pm

i don't believe New England was a better team than the giants.
and im an eagle fan who despises the Giants

The Patriots have become a soft team, all finesse.

They won their super bowls because of a great defense. The defense hasn't been great since 2004

The Giants were a far more physical team and completely dominated new england up front on both sides of the ball.

New England was manhandled again by the Jets this yr during the post season. They may be able to put up pretty numbers during the regular season but in a playoff game i'll take a physical team over a soft, finesse team like the Patriots

by **Chariot of Fire** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:54 pm

no luck in swimming

by **Rodion** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:57 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:no luck in swimming

I think many swimmers got lucky when Alexander Popov got stabbed. :lol:

by **Leehar** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:12 pm

uhm, when exactly did this turn into a sports discussion?

Ireland had amazing dice, and Bangladesh's drop was terrible! :ugeek:

by **Dako** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:18 pm

Rodion wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:no luck in swimming

I think many swimmers got lucky when Alexander Popov got stabbed. :lol:

Hell yeah, I remember that clearly.

Also, no luck in running as well I think. So, all the things where you use only your own body and nothing else.

by **Commander62890** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:52 pm

@ Gannable:
Yes, the Giants were more physical and dominated the Pats up front in that game.
All I'm saying is that I still believe the outcome of that game was a bit of a fluke.
The Giants were lucky that they were able to get so much pressure on Brady.
They were lucky that the Pats offense, normally so efficient, had an off-game.

And bring up the Jet game (which was awesome - I love the Jets) does nothing to help your case.
Last year's Pats weren't nearly as good as the '07 team.

@ CoF and Dako:
I do not know a lot about swimming and running, so help me out:
Do runners and swimmers get the exact same time every time they compete?

If not, what accounts for that discrepancy?

You don't think a swimmer or runner can have a "bad day," where they finish 0.1 seconds higher than their average time?

by **gannable** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:28 pm

u call it a fluke but i saw it coming a mile away
anytime a finesse offense with a soft defense comes up against a nasty physical team they are usually going to lose in a post-season setting.
[as an eagle fan understand this - the eagles have lost 4 nfc title games, a super bowl, alot of regular season success but they've been a one dimensional passing offense, no running game, and a bend but don't break defense that is not physical. That type of football does not win championships. ]

i had a feeling the giants were going to win the game

i thought the winner of the cowboys/giants playoff game was going to win the super bowl. The patriots had a medicore defense during the 2007 season. The Giants and Cowboys were both better all around teams.

i was near positive of a Giants victory. i was mad at myself for not betting the game.

anytime i get a feeling like that im usually correct.

by **Tammy DeLee** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:36 pm

Commander9 wrote:
Tammy DeLee wrote:I have the utmost respect for anyone that is bilingual, an accomplishment that I can only dream about. Especially if their second language is english, the EASIEST language to master of all! (as I reckon dan has demonstrated above)

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Fixed. I can't imagine how can anyone say that it's a hard language - it was much, much easier than Lithuanian or Russian.

go ahead you, rub it in! yes I dropped out my 2nd week of spanish, but i figured I knew all the cuss words and that would get me by if I ever decided to travel! (that and a bilingual companion)

by **ljex** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:17 pm

Rodion wrote:So, there's no luck in football?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K36wgL4VLHM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNUkUCkn ... re=related

Come to think of it, you must be right. All-pro cornerbacks miss interceptions like that all the time. I'm also pretty sure Tyree had been practicing that helmet grab for months!

lol you can say that is luck all you want but luck is defined by random variables being involved, what random variables are there in football?

by **ljex** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:21 pm

Commander62890 wrote:Ljex, I disagree - I think the Patriots were a better team that year. The better team lost, and the Giants were Champions.

Think about it this way - if the Pats played the Giants 5 times, they'd probably win 4 of those games. The Pats were ridiculous that year. The only chance the Giants had was to play amazing AND get lucky, which they did.

I think there is a lot of luck in any sport.

They played them earlier that year and gave them a great game, almost won i think it was 3 points the other way. In the end who wins the superbowl comes down to skill and yeah one team may have better potential skill but if they dont play their best and dont have their heads in the game, they are less skilled and dont deserve to be called the best team.

EDIT: Lets also look at KORT if we are going to look at TOFU, what top clans have they defeated? Bruce himself said last page that he doesn't view EMPIRE as a top clan which is kinda funny actually. Other then that win, they have no wins of note and one tie and one loss. Quite honestly im hard-pressed to find evidence for them being the 3rd ranked clan when looking at the numbers. They can claim my own biased for them as a clan all they want as the reason why I say this but if they could provide any actual reason for why they are number 3 i would be surprised.

by **Dako** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:49 pm

Commander62890 wrote:@ CoF and Dako:
I do not know a lot about swimming and running, so help me out:
Do runners and swimmers get the exact same time every time they compete?

If not, what accounts for that discrepancy?

You don't think a swimmer or runner can have a "bad day," where they finish 0.1 seconds higher than their average time?

I mean that for runners and swimmers their bad days are random, but they are the only person who they can blame. There are no luck or something. Just who is better prepared. Of course, someone can have stomach ache, and it can be a luck factor, but overall, no 3rd party forces are present there. In the end, it is their own skill that is measurable, and clearly, any of them can have the same "bad day" with equal chances - which I consider an even situation.

by **jpeter15** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:12 pm

ljex wrote:what random variables are there in football?

Just to play devil's advocate, the odd bounce of a football on a fumble doesnt seem too far off from the roll of a dice as far as random variables go.

by **josko.ri** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:19 pm

ljex wrote:They can claim my own biased for them as a clan all they want as the reason why I say this but if they could provide any actual reason for why they are number 3 i would be surprised.

well, win vs G1 29-11. nobody ever won vs G1 with so huge difference except THOTA.

25-15 vs Empire, nobody ever has beat Empire with so huge difference. not forget, Empire was #3 clan on that time.

win vs TOFU, but even if you consider it loss 28-32, if loosing with so small difference vs #2 clan, then what seed we deserve with that result? #3 or #20?

win vs TSM 10-8 group stage of league.

20-20 vs THOTA after 2 batches. dont you think that tie vs #1 seed is enough to be #3?

win vs LoW in playoff of league (still not over, but it will be several days from now, with my prediction of 12-7 result or the least 11-8 for kort)

is it enough reason(s)?

of top 8 clans, 4 were beaten by us without a loss, plus tie vs THOTA right now. what more do we need to be #3 seed? do you know anyone seeded behind us with better results than us in recent period?

by **Qwert** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:23 pm

Josko-these is power ranking,its not related on score. its related on percepcion of other clans.

by **Chariot of Fire** on Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:32 pm

good analogy JP, I like it

by **ljex** on Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:22 am

josko.ri wrote:
ljex wrote:They can claim my own biased for them as a clan all they want as the reason why I say this but if they could provide any actual reason for why they are number 3 i would be surprised.

well, win vs G1 29-11. nobody ever won vs G1 with so huge difference except THOTA.

25-15 vs Empire, nobody ever has beat Empire with so huge difference. not forget, Empire was #3 clan on that time.

win vs TOFU, but even if you consider it loss 28-32, if loosing with so small difference vs #2 clan, then what seed we deserve with that result? #3 or #20?

win vs TSM 10-8 group stage of league.

20-20 vs THOTA after 2 batches. dont you think that tie vs #1 seed is enough to be #3?

win vs LoW in playoff of league (still not over, but it will be several days from now, with my prediction of 12-7 result or the least 11-8 for kort)

is it enough reason(s)?

of top 8 clans, 4 were beaten by us without a loss, plus tie vs THOTA right now. what more do we need to be #3 seed? do you know anyone seeded behind us with better results than us in recent period?

You do realize that I view 19 game sets as meaningless right? As they should be...that is not nearly enough games to say you are better than a clan.

Beyond that nemesis played thota 20-20 in the first 40 games but i dont see them ranked #3 in fact they are barely a top 10 clan.

Also empire was not number 3...we were number 3 in the cup but that was because TSM sat out so we were really number 4. Beyond that the difference between 3 and 4 were so minimal they should be treated the same and LOW was under-ranked at the time because they had just lost to FOED shortly before.

Lets not forget your tie with G1 either if you are going to talk about the 29-11 match you won against them...besides the fact that I think of G1 as an overrated clan.

I would put LOW (for sure) IA (probably) and TSM (Maybe) in front of you if i was ranking clans I just don't see you as the 3rd best clan on the site.

by **Chariot of Fire** on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:37 am

Come on Blitz. Start a Top 10 popularity poll.

by **josko.ri** on Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:12 am

ljex wrote:Beyond that nemesis played thota 20-20 in the first 40 games but i dont see them ranked #3 in fact they are barely a top 10 clan.

every clan can have one extra good/bad result. from your analogy, if Arsenal lost from team from 4th english league in FA cup, does then that team deserve to be in Champions league instead of Arsenal? it s the same analogy with Nemesis/Thota. everyone can have one good/bad match(clan war) but ranking is determined on much miore matches than only that one, so you cannot take Nemesis vs Thota like merit for Thota rankings, it is only one match, while I wrote about 5-6 matches where KORT was very successfull. G1 tie was our first clan war ever played, and the fact that first was tie and then 29-11 in other match, proves that we were rapidly increasing our power. if 19 game set is too low for some merit, then you should see KORT vs TSM+LoW, both in clan league. result probably 21-16 or 20-17 for kort. 37 games also not enough to make some merit?

also, if you consider our lats consecutive 4 challenges vs TOFU, THOTA, TSM, LOW, 4 the greatest ranked clans if not count KORT, then you will see we have positive score from these matches. and that is total of 40+60+19+18= 137 matches. are 137 matches enough to make some conclusions? not fortget, we won more games in that 137 matches than lost. if we have more wins in 137 matches vs #1 #2 #4 #5 then we deserve at least #3 seed.

by **jpeter15** on Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:29 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:Come on Blitz. Start a Top 10 popularity poll.

How about a Bottom 10 Popularity Poll

by **laughingcavalier** on Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:09 pm

Boy this thread has been busy.

jpeter15 wrote:Based on what I have seen in our mini challenge with them, TSM is definitely a top 4 clan. It comes back to what the rankings are meant for... TSM is top 4 in skill and talent,

Thanks jp - glad some of the older monkis could turn in better results against you than I could.

TOFU is a great clan. I started editing the clan section of the Dispatch just when monkis had missed out by a game on beating THOTA. As the monkis recouped I really thought the big story of my time as editor - SHAMELESS PLUG: all new clan team ups the coverage - CC Dispatch [Issue 43 01-03-11] Another Saxy Edition! - would be the rise of TOFU to a head-to-head with THOTA to prove if we would have new or old champs. Kind of disappointed that fate took us a different way, but there is a lot to speculate on now.

THOTA have been telling us a while how hard it is to be number one - I think we see now how hard it is to be no. 2 or no.3 or no. anything - there is so much clan competition to try to excel in. Can TOFU keep up their momentum? KORT sure have exceeded what a lot of folks were expecting for them, just what can they do in the CC finals? How will monkis play now we are back from a break? ....

One thought I have on longer challenges telling the difference between two clans. No question they reduce the element of luck in results that you'll always get in a random cube game. But longer challenges are a test of stamina and diversity as well as skill. They benefit bigger clans or clans with a group of very active players who can master a whole range of maps and settings. One of the reasons THOTA are so good at comebacks is that they just have so many elite players. Doesn't go well in the first set? Mix up the ponies and charge again.

CoF's idea of a league without playoffs like the English premiership or so many European football leagues is a really interesting one.

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