Post-Apocalyptic Mafia - Town Wins! [Archive]

[naxus]

Knox, your amazing sometimes...

[safariguy5]

Knox, you're amazing sometimes...

fixed.

Anyways, I think maybe a couple people need to be prodded. iliad for sure.

[Iliad]

3) You guys are playing too passively. Scum is controlling this town. The only reason we got to lynch scum yesterday was because of the deadline. Otherwise, scum would have continued to prey on your indecisive play styles. I want TOP 3 suspects from everyone, and at least a short paragraph as to why on each.

Why yes, it seems that the scum is trying to control this town.

Do you have fact to back up that accusation?

Other wise, I will be invoking Knox's 8th. It is forbidden to solve the case with clues not presented.

Don't make me break out Knox for this game guys :3

And again trying to control the town. Which I've noticed from the start, you're very good at.

Want some facts? Want my top 3 suspects? How about my number 1 suspect and that's you.

1.When dlanor first replaced fuzzy he was under a bit of pressure as people were looking at fuzzy's actions and dlanor saw that there were few other leads. To survive therefore he would need to divert attention or make a really good defense. Diverting attention is obviously easier and he makes a case against campin_killer.

The case against campin killer was pretty light.
It basically only consisted of this point

Point #1:

Wow Justinasss bugging out when pressured? I think we should lynch him

Justinassss flipped town doctor when lynched. Mafia would know that Justinasss isn't scum fake claiming Jester. So either way, it would benefit scum to has the hammer fall on Justin (assuming that Jesters in this game are neutral and do not cause a loss-con in all other factions). Only scum would know that Justin wasn't scum, and would be the most likely to push his wagon.

Which isn't exactly conclusive as town would be equally distrustful of justin's behaviour. Also it seems that there are quite a number of differen't anti-town factions and it doesn't seem that we're facing a monolithic scum faction.

The rest of the case was that campin was inactive. The fact that we caught scum off this very light lead seems too coincidental to me.

A player who was acting strange, attracted town's attention but had to replaced and his replacement diverst the attention and manages to lynch scum and make everyone forget about their suspicions about him? That to me sounds like a classic mafia godfather. Sure he would lose one of his goons, however he was inactive and dead weight and he was under pressure and needed to divert attention.

I don't call it luck Mr. Squirrel, considering I had a solid case on the guy.

We call it scum hunting.

I would perhaps call it, trying to get into the good graces of town and gain its trust. After all if you were the one to lead a succesful lynch against a scumster, it's much less likely that you will be suspected.

2. I really do not like it when one person tries to dictate the game's direction. Your best case scenario is that one person is mostly correct, but that relies on far too much luck. It will be much more likely that even if it's a town player, they will wrong fairly often and lead town astray. Your worst case scenario is that the player dictating town's action is scum.

Let's see dlanor directing town's actions:
When he first was under pressure he managed to divert attention onto campin.

Usually if campin's around he'll drop some sort of line in here so I agree with Skoff that he's just not on CC.

Also Dlanor(and skoff some), You've never played a game with Herk otherwise you'd know that fluff isnt always a sign of scummyness but some peoples stlye

QFT on both accounts. Some time ago I sent CK a role PM for another mafia and he hasn't even read it and so was replaced. I guess I would rather see replaced then lynched, but then again there are several people I would like to see replaced. On the fence still, but if I don't see something else to pounce on I say we go for CK.

So your argument is Meta?

No facts?

Great job.

This is him, when someone disagreed with him on the case whether campin was actively lurking, or basically just inactive. Notice the very agressive playing style and the way he tries to shut down discussion he doesn't like.

This might be meta-something-ing, but yellow suggests there're several colours involved. Yellow (especially bright yellow) is hard to read, irritating, and generally the colour you choose only after other options have been exhausted. I guess there's at least a red faction around, and maybe a purple one as well.

That said: unvote
vote Campin_Killer

Stop. Just don't. It is better that the town doesn't make assumptions on assumptions. Flavor speculation is not needed.

Here's him trying to stop discussion that he is against. Medefe made some interesting points, however Knox quickly tried to direct town's attention elsewhere

COMMANDER9, I also request a (limited) extention of the deadline. At least give the replacement a weekend to catch up on over 20 pages on a rather complicated game


In case this won't happen, I'm gonna Vote Dlanor, as I really want a lynch over a no lynch. We need more info on this game...

vote Streaker. idk this post seems scummy to me.

-Tails

:goodposting:

Vote: Streaker

This is a pretty good example of dictating town's action. See he doesn't need to actually tell everyone what to discuss, who to vote, but if he shuts down conversation he doesn't like, which I've shown that he does, he then chooses out leads that other people make and promotes them. That way him controlling town isn't as obvious, and any faulty lynches aren't led back to him allowing him longer control.

3) You guys are playing too passively. Scum is controlling this town. The only reason we got to lynch scum yesterday was because of the deadline. Otherwise, scum would have continued to prey on your indecisive play styles. I want TOP 3 suspects from everyone, and at least a short paragraph as to why on each.

This is another example of this. If this was done, all knox had to do would have been to attack any leads that also gained popularity and traction which he didn't want and promote the ones that he would've wanted.

Look, I guarantee that Jerado is some kind of third party role. Maybe a lyncher. I have role related info on him.

In other news, what has changed since I posted my case on Streaker?

Naxus, I want an EXACT list of things that have changed, and how they have relevance to my case on streaker.

To be honest, if you admit to reading my case, you would know that he was next on my list.

Finally this is a post that he made immediately after jeraado raised some concerns about him. And instantly jeraado's case was forgotten and instead we spent 6 pages discussing his flavour and the possibility of town aligned players having subtle info on non-town players. Knox justifies this diversion as having been planned all along:

Oh, so you agree with me?

See, I was told that flavor speculation was ok... so I decided I'd base my entire case off of it, and see if anyone objected.

Those who objected, will be cross referenced with those who sided against me yesterday in the flavor debate.

So yes. It is a double standard. I was deliberate, and designed to gain info.

I don't see that however. It makes for a neat revisionist explanation, but looking at the case it seems to more it was used to distract town from jeraado's case on page 50.
Also this is quite interesting

I can now confirm a few things.

1) Jeerado is most definitely town. Confused? Sure. But Town. Therefor, Unvote: Jeerado

Knox claaims he knows for sure that jeraado is town. Consider these posts however:

That's ok Jeraado.

I think from your reaction here, you are PROBABLY an SK or something. Actually, you're probably the abomination. I have role related info that tells me NOT TO TRUST YOU, and once I revealed this info, it is only NOW you begin to attack me. Because I threaten your ability to remain unseen in this game perhaps?

FoS: Jeraado

Btw this was an excellent example of his aggressive playing style and attemping to shut anyoen down who disagreed with him

Look, I guarantee that Jerado is some kind of third party role. Maybe a lyncher. I have role related info on him.

What I'll say for now in the limited time I have is the following brief assessments.

Jeerado is scumming it up. He's panicing scum, and he's trying to worm his way out of an awkward situation.
Streaker gets +1 town points for his explanation of his situation yesterday. However, I still just have this gut feeling about him. I'll reserve that though.
Jeerado gets +1 scum points for the Massive AtE he's throwing down.
Jeerado gets +1 scum points for the Ad Hominem attack against /.
Jeerado gets +1 scum points for poor use of logic.

Safariguy gets +1 scum points for that vote on Iilad. >.>

/ continues to rise as a town read for me.

Unvote, Vote Jeerado.

I would like pressure on this wagon, and a claim. More indepth analysis of Jeerado's play to follow when I get time.

Why the sudden, very big change of heart? Because jeraado and his case was no longer a threat, having been forgotten, and dlanor was no longer under pressure and therefore didn't need to attak jeraado, especially knowing from the start that he is town

Lastly consider knox's own admission that he lied about this case and made it upon flavour speculation to gain info, and the fact that he contradicting opinions on jeraado. And now knox, learn a very basic mafia rule here on CC: Lynch all liars

Vote knox

I know that's a lengthy post, but do read through it as this is very important.

[/]

*sigh* Dlanor, you were planning to reveal this a week after we would have potentially forced a claim and lynched jeraado?
Your play is far too black and white to be a successful town strategy in this game, how does getting nearly lynched make one town, a scapegoat, or anything else when there are 5+ potentially warring factions actively attempting to kill each other?
the fact is, not being trustworthy is quite serious after the Apocalypse, and I can't really trust someone who beats someone else 4/5ths to death and then says "never mind, they are my new best buddy" when they get back from the hospital.

You show little care for who you claim is town in the long run, this is what I would expect from an anti-town, it's all good as long as someone else gets screwed.
I still don't trust jeraado, but as jeraado and mr squirrel have been arguing, it is more likely fair for scum to know scum than for town to know scum...
Unvote vote knox

I suppose for a third suspect if you insist, would be naxus if you turn up scum, knox, for the same flavor reason plus the fact he got to replace despite being a 3rd party recruiter previously leaves opens the plausibility he is still third party cult since that is likely a lot of info for a replace to know..

[Haggis_McMutton]

Wowzers.

What I'm sensing here is that we're deadlocked on the meaning of the hated/liar role pm. I do think that it definitely warrants an investigation on jeraado and/or dlanor or naxus, but I am beginning to doubt the ability of enough people to agree on a lynch of jeraado or not to lynch him. I really don't think we're going to change anyone's mind on the meaning of the flavor, but I just find it interesting that dlanor discounts the use of role flavor yesterday but turns around and bases an entire accusation against jeraado about it today. Double standard much??

Oh, so you agree with me?

See, I was told that flavor speculation was ok... so I decided I'd base my entire case off of it, and see if anyone objected.

Those who objected, will be cross referenced with those who sided against me yesterday in the flavor debate.

So yes. It is a double standard. I was deliberate, and designed to gain info.

Knox arrogance count =1.
Knox claiming to have lied/manipulated the town count =1.

According to you the only two options are:
1. gameplay aspect X is completely worthless.
2. gameplay aspect X can be used by itself to make cases and determine guilt.

Unfortunately in real life(and mafia too) there is such a thing as corroborating and even circumstantial evidence. Just because flavour speculation isn't enough to base a case on doesn't mean it's worthless.

I can now confirm a few things.

1) Jeerado is most definitely town. Confused? Sure. But Town. Therefor, Unvote: Jeerado

Knox arrogance count =2.

Not long ago you were sure he wasn't town were you not?
Do you claim incompetence or should i make the "Knox claiming to have lied/manipulated the town count" 2 as well?

2) You guys are willing to wagon JUST ABOUT ANYTHING. If I told you that Mr.Squirrel was "Role Confirmed as Sick" to me, would you wagon him out of fear that he is the "freak/mutated thing"? Try and think about what you're voting guys. I will be examining the Jeerado wagon for scum reads. I guarantee that there is scum on this wagon.

Knox arrogance count =3.
I do believe that you can "guarantee there is scum on this waggon" though, what with you being scum and all.

3) You guys are playing too passively. Scum is controlling this town. The only reason we got to lynch scum yesterday was because of the deadline. Otherwise, scum would have continued to prey on your indecisive play styles. I want TOP 3 suspects from everyone, and at least a short paragraph as to why on each.

For the moment, I will reserve judgment on Safari (until I see his stance on flavor yesterday), but this post is either a scum tell or a town tell.

Streaker is still high up for me (as I have explained in my case on him).

My next post will contain my 3 suspects (It won't come immediately.)

This almost gave me pause. Saying that scum is controlling town when you have been pretty clearly doing your best to control town since you joined. It's almost too blatant. I'm going to guess you're response will be "Ha, that was a cleverly set trap, to see how you respond, I will now cross-correlate these responses with the previous flavour responses and provide a graphical landscape of players vs scuminess" or some such.

Knox arrogance count = 4 btw.

Also, now we only got the kill because of the deadline? So it wasn't because of brilliant scum finding skills like you previously claimed? Hmm.
Knox claiming to have lied/manipulated the town count =2.

One other thing, remember this:

Also, to those who found me to be arrogant:

Gomen Nasai!

I was just playing a part that I needed to do. Replacing into an already passive game, that had to resort to a deadline lynch on day 2 was going to be a challenge. I didn't want to end up in the situation where I had my back against the wall, and was trying to pull off a miracle with no time to do so. I had to be direct and confident, so people would get interested in doing something and making discussion.

Regarding Haggis, I knew he couldn't be a VT simply by the way he posted. No VT defends his claim that hard. It had to be fake, which is why I pushed it. (Too bad it was a bomb @_@)

I would have liked to enter this game and played as myself, and been nice a chat to everyone, but it wasn't what the situation called for. :S

But aggressive scum in a passive town gets overlooked, especially when people continue to write it off as arrogance.

I hope you guys don't hold it against me, I would like to play again with all of you, nipah~

-Dlanor

Huh, might we be seeing a repeat performance here? you toned it down the first day when the heat was on, but now that you're feeling more secure have lapsed into past habits perhaps? Seems to me like you're playing the same role again.

vote knox

[Commander9]

Vote Count:

Streaker (1) - TG
jeraado (2) - edoc, naxus
knox (4) - iliad, / , Haggis, jeraado

15 alive, 8 to lynch.

[jeraado]

I think dlanor unvoted me (page 55), also can we combine the votes under 'dlanor' and 'knox'?

[edocsil]

But aggressive scum in a passive town gets overlooked, especially when people continue to write it off as arrogance.

I hope you guys don't hold it against me, I would like to play again with all of you, nipah~

-Dlanor

Your right aggressive scum do get overlooked. Vote Dlanor I care not at all for how you attempt to control the game.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Apparently people do not like Gambits on this site.

Fine, LAL is a valid position... so long as you aren't closed minded about it.

But do you see how fast a wagon is forming on me? Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

In any case, I'm done fighting this hopeless war. If you want my claim, just ask. I'll soft claim slightly for you though.

Town will lose this game if I am lynched.

That's what my role nearly guarantees for you guys. Full claim can be provided if you wish. Beyond that, I can't be arsed to try and explain a gambit to a town that refuses to accept them as a valid town move.

[aage]

Town will lose this game if I am lynched.

I think you should add this to your last post, Haggis.

vote dlanor...

[edocsil]

Apparently people do not like Gambits on this site.

Fine, LAL is a valid position... so long as you aren't closed minded about it.

But do you see how fast a wagon is forming on me? Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?

In any case, I'm done fighting this hopeless war. If you want my claim, just ask. I'll soft claim slightly for you though.

Town will lose this game if I am lynched.

That's what my role nearly guarantees for you guys. Full claim can be provided if you wish. Beyond that, I can't be arsed to try and explain a gambit to a town that refuses to accept them as a valid town move.

If most any other rookie (here at least) said that we would rightly point and laugh. With you, I am uncertain.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

*sigh* Dlanor, you were planning to reveal this a week after we would have potentially forced a claim and lynched jeraado?
Your play is far too black and white to be a successful town strategy in this game, how does getting nearly lynched make one town, a scapegoat, or anything else when there are 5+ potentially warring factions actively attempting to kill each other?
the fact is, not being trustworthy is quite serious after the Apocalypse, and I can't really trust someone who beats someone else 4/5ths to death and then says "never mind, they are my new best buddy" when they get back from the hospital.

You show little care for who you claim is town in the long run, this is what I would expect from an anti-town, it's all good as long as someone else gets screwed.
I still don't trust jeraado, but as jeraado and mr squirrel have been arguing, it is more likely fair for scum to know scum than for town to know scum...
Unvote vote knox

I suppose for a third suspect if you insist, would be naxus if you turn up scum, knox, for the same flavor reason plus the fact he got to replace despite being a 3rd party recruiter previously leaves opens the plausibility he is still third party cult since that is likely a lot of info for a replace to know..

This is BAD. This post is atrocious. Let me outline for you how bad it is.

Firstly, that opening line. Are you implying that if my opinion of a player changes, that I should continue to lynch them just because the votes are there? I will not lynch someone I have a town read on. What you are suggesting is called TUNNELING. It's a scum tell. +1 scum points.

Secondly, you need to realize that mafia is a game of reads and information. Information is always popping up, and my reads are ever changing to fit with the new evidence. Only scum keeps the same reads. ALSO, your hospital reference is bogus. In this game, you have no friends. Everyone is a suspect. Therefor, I might string you up for a lynch one moment, and then call you town the next. It depends on the reads I get. +1 scum points for suggesting that people need to be unchanging in their reads.

Thirdly, your second paragraph is an Appeal to Emotion. "YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT WHO YOU CALL TOWN." Sorry, incorrect. I do care about who I call town. Every comment I make has a purpose, REGARDLESS of alignment. If I'm scum, I have motives, if town I have motives. This entire point is flawed from a logical stand point. +1 scum points for misrepresentation. +1 scum points for misdirection and bad logic.

Finally, your vote. You have now hopped onto two bandwagons (Jeerado, Me) without so much as a second thought. You even complained in the first line about me stopping a wagon. Why are you so intent on having a wagon be successful? Isn't information and LYNCHING THE RIGHT PERSON more important? You wagon hopped. Another scum tell. +1 scum points.

Yes, all in all, this is a good lynch right here. Vote: /

I will now resign from this defense, and allow my above post to hold true. If you want to lynch some scums, vote with me. If you want to destroy any town chance at winning (because of what my role is, NOT because I'm amazing or something) you'll lynch me. Simple as that. I have a perspective bias for sure, but it doesn't change this above stated fact.

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Town will lose this game if I am lynched.

I think you should add this to your last post, Haggis.

vote dlanor...

Let me repeat my comment I just made. You may have missed it.

Town will lose if I am lynched, NOT because I am amazing or something like that, but rather because of what my role is.

[aage]

Town will lose this game if I am lynched.

I think you should add this to your last post, Haggis.

vote dlanor...

Let me repeat my comment I just made. You may have missed it.

Town will lose if I am lynched, NOT because I am amazing or something like that, but rather because of what my role is.

I can say the same. However, I didn't act scummy. Anyone can claim that their role is important, but I doubt it is vital for town's survival. It's not like you're the "town power-role and vote enabler"

[Dlanor A. Knox]

Uh huh.

I have a logical conclusion that goes along with my role, BTW. So I can say that above comment with a certain amount of confidence.

[safariguy5]

Well, considering this is Knox, having played with him before, I do believe this is how he plays anyways. Sure, that was an OMGUS vote on /, but I'm inclined to give more leeway to someone who managed to convince us to not hammer him yesterday without revealing role. It could very well be that the role is so important for town to not lose. After all, to me, it's easier to kill talkative scum than submarining scum because the talkative ones will probably make a mistake or freudian slip or something eventually. I'm actually going to go with the original line of argument and vote streaker. Submarining has me worried about him as clearly there is some very contentious debate going on as well as failing to respond to knox's case on him from yesterday.

[aage]

Well, considering this is Knox, having played with him before, I do believe this is how he plays anyways. Sure, that was an OMGUS vote on /, but I'm inclined to give more leeway to someone who managed to convince us to not hammer him yesterday without revealing role. It could very well be that the role is so important for town to not lose. After all, to me, it's easier to kill talkative scum than submarining scum because the talkative ones will probably make a mistake or freudian slip or something eventually. I'm actually going to go with the original line of argument and vote streaker. Submarining has me worried about him as clearly there is some very contentious debate going on as well as failing to respond to knox's case on him from yesterday.

no offence, but the fact that he manages to sneak out of an argument doesn't paint a pro-town picture at all. And again no offence, but "tl;dr" is what shoots through my head when I see he made another huge post in defence or attack. I do read them though, but the contents is usually repetitive and contains low-quality arguments that are cunningly phrased to look like enormous accusations. And here he goes and claims we desperately need his role to survive this game. I'm a bodyguard, would you then also desperately need me to win the game? And not to mention, commander9 would lose all the respect I ever gave him if he put a role in this game that was vital to the survival of a group.

[safariguy5]

Well, considering this is Knox, having played with him before, I do believe this is how he plays anyways. Sure, that was an OMGUS vote on /, but I'm inclined to give more leeway to someone who managed to convince us to not hammer him yesterday without revealing role. It could very well be that the role is so important for town to not lose. After all, to me, it's easier to kill talkative scum than submarining scum because the talkative ones will probably make a mistake or freudian slip or something eventually. I'm actually going to go with the original line of argument and vote streaker. Submarining has me worried about him as clearly there is some very contentious debate going on as well as failing to respond to knox's case on him from yesterday.

no offence, but the fact that he manages to sneak out of an argument doesn't paint a pro-town picture at all. And again no offence, but "tl;dr" is what shoots through my head when I see he made another huge post in defence or attack. I do read them though, but the contents is usually repetitive and contains low-quality arguments that are cunningly phrased to look like enormous accusations. And here he goes and claims we desperately need his role to survive this game. I'm a bodyguard, would you then also desperately need me to win the game? And not to mention, commander9 would lose all the respect I ever gave him if he put a role in this game that was vital to the survival of a group.

Well shoot, I mean if we're going to assume he is scum and he did sacrifice Campin as dead weight, why not follow him against streaker. I'm pretty sure at this point, Knox realizes that the first case he leads that shows up town on a lynch is probably going to get him lynched. If he is scum and wants to sacrifice another scumbuddy, I'm all for it.

[jeraado]

I don't think anyone has a problem with a well-handled gambit, which results in real information being gained. However I think everyone has a problem with being lied to, and for that lie to be revealed so late. There's a difference between setting up a fake wagon to trap an individual and testing the town's approach to scumhunting.

I am still unclear on whether you ever believed me to be scum. Here are two quotes:

Oh, so you agree with me?

See, I was told that flavor speculation was ok... so I decided I'd base my entire case off of it, and see if anyone objected.

Those who objected, will be cross referenced with those who sided against me yesterday in the flavor debate.

So yes. It is a double standard. I was deliberate, and designed to gain info.

Secondly, you need to realize that mafia is a game of reads and information. Information is always popping up, and my reads are ever changing to fit with the new evidence. Only scum keeps the same reads. ALSO, your hospital reference is bogus. In this game, you have no friends. Everyone is a suspect. Therefor, I might string you up for a lynch one moment, and then call you town the next. It depends on the reads I get. +1 scum points for suggesting that people need to be unchanging in their reads.

Your first post suggests that this was a planned move, but your second one implies that you changed your opinion. If you believed I was town and you set up the wagon anyway you surely would have called it off when the calls for claiming were getting loudest. Town doesn't want people they believe to be other townies to claim, since that benefits scum the most.

If your opinion changed, then why are you trying to pull this off as a tactic? Why not explain that your opinion changed and give reasons as to why.

The other possibility that I can see is somewhere in between. You set up a weak wagon to 'test' the town and purely to see if you got super-lucky. But that distracts from stronger cases and doesn't aid the town. In a game where you know deadlines are used, we need to focus on all leads, and prioritise the strongest ones. Self-serving wagons don't help town.

The timing of your change of heart is quite interesting. You waited until we hit deadlock on a lynch and started looking elsewhere. In fact I think this quote was quite important:

Regardless we aren't lynching anyone on any speculative info that may or may not have been given in some player's roles. Especially since I'm quite convinced that the full story isn't being told. I'm also quite curious to see who was under pressure before we were derailed by this discussion and who changed it.

Because that was you, wasn't it? You were the person who was under pressure and you were the person who derailed it. Cleverly, you were able to do this without ever answering any of the points made against you.

Claiming that your role is really, really important is something that we see two groups of players do to try and divert attention - newbies and scum. It doesn't work. You may as well stop that approach now.

I think at this point, having admitted to misleading town, you need to come clean and outline clearly what you believed and when. Town lynches liars, so unless you can explain yourself well, you won't last the day.

Also, you can check the exasperated attitude at the door. You haven't answered nearly enough to give us a 'take it or leave it' response to your defense. Seeing if anyone will call your bluff on forcing a claim won't work either, we want information.

[edocsil]

Well, considering this is Knox, having played with him before, I do believe this is how he plays anyways. Sure, that was an OMGUS vote on /, but I'm inclined to give more leeway to someone who managed to convince us to not hammer him yesterday without revealing role. It could very well be that the role is so important for town to not lose. After all, to me, it's easier to kill talkative scum than submarining scum because the talkative ones will probably make a mistake or freudian slip or something eventually. I'm actually going to go with the original line of argument and vote streaker. Submarining has me worried about him as clearly there is some very contentious debate going on as well as failing to respond to knox's case on him from yesterday.

no offence, but the fact that he manages to sneak out of an argument doesn't paint a pro-town picture at all. And again no offence, but "tl;dr" is what shoots through my head when I see he made another huge post in defence or attack. I do read them though, but the contents is usually repetitive and contains low-quality arguments that are cunningly phrased to look like enormous accusations. And here he goes and claims we desperately need his role to survive this game. I'm a bodyguard, would you then also desperately need me to win the game? And not to mention, commander9 would lose all the respect I ever gave him if he put a role in this game that was vital to the survival of a group.

TL:DR is what pops to mind as well, as I find her posts to not really add much beyond typical mantra. She has manged to doge the bullet not due to the lucidity of her logic but by the length of her ...posts.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Sorry I wasn't able to make the case myself knox. I really wanted to knock you off your high horse myself, but it seems like all the others have summarized my arguments before I had time to state them myself. Personally, my only major issues with you were your bossiness and your very convenient change of heart (I'm not against you fabricating a claim to get reads, but the way you did it and the methods you used don't sit well with me). The other tells that people presented are significant, but nearly as much in my opinion. If you want any more clarification on my grievances about you, I would be glad to elaborate, but I thought I would just simplify it for now in order to keep this thread from getting too wordy.

Town will lose if I am lynched, NOT because I am amazing or something like that, but rather because of what my role is.

I see new guys do this all the time. You don't strike me as naive like most new guys tho. While I bet you probably have a very good claim set up, stating that you are completely invaluable to town is not gonna help your case. Personally, I don't believe you. If you have a kick-ass role, you would try to avoid suspicion rather than attract it like you are.

[naxus]

Town will lose if I am lynched, NOT because I am amazing or something like that, but rather because of what my role is.

And what is this all powerful role that is the last bastion of town knox?

[Skoffin]

Thing about Knox is that he tends to be on the side of generating discussion, whatever way need be. I'll also state that, while generally it is bad to lie to the town, that is not always so. Sometimes ploys can be in the towns best interests so long as they are done right. This seems like something Knox would do whether town or scum. It's generally a more advanced thing to do, however they can easily go awry if you're not careful. Of course Knox could just be a scumster, but I mainly say this because I've seen a few instances of late where certain tactics have essentially been labelled as merely scum ploys and nothing more (which has kinda irritated me >< ) I can see both sides of the argument really, but I'm having a hard time getting my thoughts coherent enough to jot down. Back in my day I wouldn't stay up so late and the time is sapping my comprehension skills, so I'll leave my ramblings for the morn'.
I don't know how you kids do it. I could swear that one of you devious schemesters is stealing my energy reserves. I just know it.

[VioIet]

them Them THEM THEM!!!

OVER THERE OVER THERE!

Heed the call. Resist the infection.

It has been paralyzing your brain. Get the antidote.

Fight the Power!!!


Vote Dlanor

Spoiler

"Some people, well, if they don't like it well, then, loose them. Really. Loose them. Period."

[Mr. Squirrel]

I'll also state that, while generally it is bad to lie to the town, that is not always so. Sometimes ploys can be in the towns best interests so long as they are done right .... It's generally a more advanced thing to do, however they can easily go awry if you're not careful.

I agree. I did a ploy at the beginning of resteraunt mafia in order to get discussion going and seeing who would jump and a bad BW. While this was almost identical to what knox claims to have done, I think he is either lying about the ploy, or he took it too far hoping it would catch into a lynch. The difference between the two are that in my resteraunt ploy I dropped some small accusations toward vio, focused on her a lil bit, and then watched as lots of people either jumped on her or defended her. However, once I got an actual lead and before the wagon got out of hand, I stated what I did and drew attention toward the new lead (herk). Vio never got near a lynch (unlike jeraado in this game) and as soon as I had something constructive to add to the town discussion, I shared it so that attention was diverted away from vio and she was not hurt by the original ruse. This ploy by knox (if thats what it really was) went much too far than it should have. I think the only reason knox called it off was because he saw that a strong bunch of us were defending jeraado. If jeraado had been lynched and came up town, it would not have been difficult to drum up support for his lynch tomorrow.

In summary, my thoughts are this:
Knox is either:
A) scum who started a wagon and then called it a ploy in order to save his own skin
B) an overconfident townie who is not quite as experienced at mafia as I thought he was (for letting the ruse go so far)

I'm leaning toward A right now, but I want to see how the discussion turns up before I place my vote anywhere.