Clan Medals

[Ace Rimmer]

[*]Must be considered a reasonably fair War, meaning farming of medals will not be allowed. Any questionable war will be discussed first by the Clan Directors and if any further discussion is needed, the Clan Leader's Association will be consulted.

I'd like an explanation of the T4C/TOFU non-medal decision, please.

[Pirlo]

[*]Must be considered a reasonably fair War, meaning farming of medals will not be allowed. Any questionable war will be discussed first by the Clan Directors and if any further discussion is needed, the Clan Leader's Association will be consulted.

I'd like an explanation of the T4C/TOFU non-medal decision, please.

wtf????

there can't be medal farming.... a bunch of players are involved in the challenge... so "farming medal" doesn't make sense.... Also, I think T4C asked for the challenge, so I think TOFU deserve the medal....

oh well, why not making 2 types of clan medal... one for the official competitions and the other for clan wars? I mean clan war medal won't be as important & valuable as the official one... so "farming medal" won't be that effective since it's awarded for non or less official challenge

[jpcloet]

[*]Must be considered a reasonably fair War, meaning farming of medals will not be allowed. Any questionable war will be discussed first by the Clan Directors and if any further discussion is needed, the Clan Leader's Association will be consulted.

I'd like an explanation of the T4C/TOFU non-medal decision, please.

I've made no such final decision and the response to your leader indicated we are working to clarify equitable. I am concerned that it is being perceived as a lopsided matchup. Let's play the games and see how it goes. TOFU is an elite clan and should be playing elite competition. If we had a leap frog ladder in place, I'm pretty sure there would be lots of rungs in between the 2 clans.

Would you like me to wait or would you rather I consult the CLA right now?

[trapyoung]

I think you should decide now. Making it turn on the spread of wins would just create a perverse incentive to keep it close if we were medal farming. Might as well make it clear from the get-go what the decision is.

[Lubawski]

If we had a leap frog ladder in place, I'm pretty sure there would be lots of rungs in between the 2 clans.

But we don't have anything in place other than general opinion.

[jrh_cardinal]

Are you planning on giving medals to TFFS for beating KoTF 36-4? Because if that war was starting right now, none of this talk would be happening about it, you would absolutely plan to hand out medals to the winner. Why should TOFU suffer based on perception?

[Pirlo]

ALSO, you should provide a fixed measure of "elite" or "non-elite" clan......... in case T4C won this war, would tell them no medal cus you were supposed to get farmed?

either you give the medal to the winners anyway, or you classify clans on a division basis

[jpcloet]

Are you planning on giving medals to TFFS for beating KoTF 36-4? Because if that war was starting right now, none of this talk would be happening about it, you would absolutely plan to hand out medals to the winner. Why should TOFU suffer based on perception?

That is another one being watched for. TFFS is a small clan but those that have played them in tournaments know they can be a good team. The debate there is whether they knew or not or should have known. I've told them I may have to deem it one way, however, there are a couple of options for them. It would be nice if a new clan could go to the CLA and ask who and appropriate first challenge would be.

TOFU on the other hand has beaten a number of established clans already, so choosing to play a brand new clan, is not something I want to see or promote. I will absolutely be finishing the recommendation for the leap frog this year for the CLA to look upon and discuss.

[Dako]

I think unless we have leap-frog system in action we cannot assume that one clan is farming the other. Not without the numbers.

It is a pure perception and half of people see it as farming and the other one don't. I am ok that some wars can be considered farming, but you cannot apply new ruling to previous or current challenges. It is just wrong. Yes, you can invent brand new rule about farming medals - but it should be in action only for future clans.

Otherwise people will perceive you as biased.

[Chariot of Fire]

There's also talk of us not getting a medal for our win over Mythology last year. This, when we were a new clan and were not permitted into Div.A of the Clan League Season II.

Work that one out if you can!

Merry Christmas

[chemefreak]

I think that until there is a clearly defined leap ladder (in your court JPC) then you should give medals for all clan wars that meet the minimum criteria. I mean, if T4C beats TOFU are we going to give them medals? Or if TOFU plays trapyoung in a lot of its games to even things up, , and it turns out to be a close TOFU win...does TOFU then get a medal? I guess most of you know that I am afraid we will accidentally create an elite set where basically 4-6 clans play eachother over and over again so as to not be accused of farming. The leap ladder fixes this, but it is not in place yet. As I said in that war's thread, kudos to TOFU for taking on T4C...nothing to gain, everything to lose. Lates.

Oh, and I hope that Mythology thing is joke, CoF. That should obviously not be farming in my book.

[jpcloet]

I clearly missed at least 1 TOFU war, and I'm not sure how that happened to be honest. Must be missing from the master list of wars I have. Mythology has to be looked at again while we work on some guidelines as to what is competitive vs not.

but you cannot apply new ruling to previous or current challenges

TOFU-T4C started after the medal announcement, and the generic farming ruling has been applied to a few historical as well. We are developing guidelines as we go along so such a definitive statement is not appropriate.

[jpcloet]

I clearly missed at least 1 TOFU war.

See my pm COF, you are missing documentation in that war. I didn't miss anything.

[Lubawski]

I clearly missed at least 1 TOFU war, and I'm not sure how that happened to be honest. Must be missing from the master list of wars I have. Mythology has to be looked at again while we work on some guidelines as to what is competitive vs not.

but you cannot apply new ruling to previous or current challenges

TOFU-T4C started after the medal announcement, and the generic farming ruling has been applied to a few historical as well. We are developing guidelines as we go along so such a definitive statement is not appropriate.

Is there a way to see which wars we were awarded medals for? I know EMPIRE has 10 wins, but the first challenge against Legion would not count (only 30 games), nor the crappy little one with Warlords of Wart (20 games).

We have beat: Dragoons, Imperial Britain, BSS, Nemesis, AOC, Mythology, The Last Warriors, and Soldiers of War.
I just want to know which of these is not done. (Perhaps Myth again).

[jpcloet]

We have beat: Dragoons, Imperial Britain, BSS, Nemesis, AOC, Mythology, The Last Warriors, and Soldiers of War.
I just want to know which of these is not done. (Perhaps Myth again).

Your profile shows all of these as medals. I did them in chrono order as well.

[Gold Knight]

If I know the members of TOFU like I think they do, I think they would be more angry about being labeled Farmers than not getting a medal for the war. And its been publically put out that TOFU is constantly seeking challenges, and right now most of the top competition is tied up, or unwilling to face them.

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with them taking on challenges from newer clans, and as was perfectly stated earlier,

kudos to TOFU for taking on T4C...nothing to gain, everything to lose.

[ljex]

Are you planning on giving medals to TFFS for beating KoTF 36-4? Because if that war was starting right now, none of this talk would be happening about it, you would absolutely plan to hand out medals to the winner. Why should TOFU suffer based on perception?

Apparently not, also im a bit surprised by this considering the war started before clan medals were announced.

[Dako]

but you cannot apply new ruling to previous or current challenges

TOFU-T4C started after the medal announcement, and the generic farming ruling has been applied to a few historical as well. We are developing guidelines as we go along so such a definitive statement is not appropriate.

Generic farming rule? What does that even mean? You don't have anything to create a criteria to mark one challenge as farming or not. This is about current challenges. As for previous - heck, who knew about farming back then when there were no clan medals? I am sorry, but it looks just wrong in my eyes.

[wilkinc]

I am afraid we will accidentally create an elite set where basically 4-6 clans play eachother over and over again so as to not be accused of farming.

IMHO, this scenario would be much more worrying to me than a clan getting one or two extra medals from playing 'weaker' clans. I'm all for smaller clans being able to challenge larger clans, it's a great way of getting experience of how the more well-established teams play. I know I learned a lot from the few games that I played as part of TIME's clan league games against the likes of TOFU and LOW.

If a large clan has a gap in their schedule, and a smaller clan challenges them, how is the large clan farming the small clan? Should the large clan refuse the challenge? How far up the ladder should a clan be before they can legitimately play the 'elite' clans?
The whole definition of clan farming seems wooly to me, it needs to be more well-defined.

On the other hand, if a large clan starts challenging small clans (and only small clans) then that is clearly farming and should be dealt with accordingly.

[Pirlo]

maybe make a rule provides that "No more than one (or two) challenge vs. the same clan in the same year is allowed"?

maybe "A clan may not be rewarded more than one medal upon beating the same clan more than once within the same year; no matter the beaten clan was ELITE or NEW."

[Qwert]

well i think that ca nbe created some rule where new clan can not play with first 15 clans.
Example : If you have 30 competitive clans, you put barriers so that 1st seed Clan can play chalenges with first 14 belove, and Second seed clan can play with 1st and 13 clans belove, 3rd seed clan can play with First and Second and 12 clans belove.
New Forming clan, can play first chalenge only with last 10 clans .
For these you need to have Some Clan Ladder,to determine these.
Ofcourse these rule its only valid for clan medal. If High ranked clan want to play with very low ranked clan,he can,but he will not be considered for medal.
How its that sound?

[Pirlo]

well i think that ca nbe created some rule where new clan can not play with first 15 clans.
Example : If you have 30 competitive clans, you put barriers so that 1st seed Clan can play chalenges with first 14 belove, and Second seed clan can play with 1st and 13 clans belove, 3rd seed clan can play with First and Second and 12 clans belove.
New Forming clan, can play first chalenge only with last 10 clans .
For these you need to have Some Clan Ladder,to determine these.
Ofcourse these rule its only valid for clan medal. If High ranked clan want to play with very low ranked clan,he can,but he will not be considered for medal.
How its that sound?

segregation won't work well because new clans must be given chance to challenge the strongest clans.... in that case, high ranked clans will probably refuse to play low ranked ones cuz the challenge will be useless.....

if you would not get points for winning a game, you'd not even bother to play that game

i still think that there should be 2 types of clan medals (official & friendly), or a rule restricting and limiting the challenge vs. the same clan to one a year for medal

[jpcloet]

Most clans don't play the same clans in the same year for a number of reasons. We are working on a leap that would focus attention on smaller intervals where part is halving and part is leap based on the distance.

[Qwert]

"segregation won't work well because new clans must be given chance to challenge the strongest clans.... in that case, high ranked clans will probably refuse to play low ranked "
hmm, if you dont read what im write- new formed clan can play with no1 clan here,but these chalenge will not be consider for medal. Now these is you can call frendly chalenge,because its hard that any new clan can defeat higest clan here.
I notice that some clan chalenge results,its unbelivabile -some clan just whipeout other clans,with huge diference, and we need to have some limits,who can not be considered to be any kind of chalenges. Results like 35-5, or even worst,its not something what you can call real chalenge. These look more like some training games,instead real chalenge, and can not be considered for any kind of medal. And these is not segregation.
Well these is how im look on these issue.

[Pirlo]

"segregation won't work well because new clans must be given chance to challenge the strongest clans.... in that case, high ranked clans will probably refuse to play low ranked "
hmm, if you dont read what im write- new formed clan can play with no1 clan here,but these chalenge will not be consider for medal. Now these is you can call frendly chalenge,because its hard that any new clan can defeat higest clan here.
I notice that some clan chalenge results,its unbelivabile -some clan just whipeout other clans,with huge diference, and we need to have some limits,who can not be considered to be any kind of chalenges. Results like 35-5, or even worst,its not something what you can call real chalenge. These look more like some training games,instead real chalenge, and can not be considered for any kind of medal. And these is not segregation.
Well these is how im look on these issue.

I read what you wrote well... and I meant, if TOFU (for example) won't get medal after beating T4C (for example), why would TOFU bother to accept such challenge? it is just aimless