KoRT's decision in the Conqueror's Cup

[Lubawski]

The other thread is getting to be a little ridiculous. How about we let people who want to talk about it do so here, and the other thread can be used for its intended purpose. Feel free to add comments. I know I'll be reading them.

The poll will be open for 7 days. You are allowed to change your vote if you are persuaded one way or the other.

If you are unfamiliar and have an hour or so to read it, it starts on page 40 here: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=441&t=123426&start=585

[Lubawski]

Let me start by saying I'm a little uncomfortable lumping all of KORT into the now commonly used CORT. I find it hard to believe such proud (and I think/thought) honorable players like Foxglove, White Moose, Killmanic, and Agonzos would side with a tainted victory, rather than earning it on the battlefield. What I would like to see (and no, I'm not naive enough to think Bruce or Masli would allow it to happen) is to see how each member of KORT voted. I'd like to keep my respect for certain members of KORT, while my view of the clan as a whole has dropped significantly.

[the.killing.44]

Masli would allow it to happen

Maybe you are naïve enough.

Masli! Masli! He's our man. If he can't do it, maybe JP can!

[ljex]

Personally If TOFU win's accounting for a 1 game forfeit I would love to see THOTA play TOFU instead as almost everyone will view the winner of that as the real winner of the Conquerors Cup.

Also funny how they said at the beginning they were looking at making TOFU forfeit 2 games which still would have made me lose respect for them as that would basically assure them the win anyway.

It should have been 1 game max, and i would have been fine with any of these
1) Forfeit the last game COF joined
2) Forfeit one game
3) Remake the game and have someone other than COF join

[Commander62890]

Totally agree with everything you said, Ljex


Although I'm not even sure I would've been happy with choice #2.

[pimphawks70]

How many members does CoRT have? Because that's about how many "no" votes there will be.

[Lubawski]

I would have preferred for KORT to choose one active game (that TOFU was ahead in and CoF was in) to remake and play again without him. I don't agree with forfeits. It's a cowardly way to go, especially when it is an honest (or even careless) mistake.

[Foxglove]

l!ol.

I would like to request that this thread be preemptively locked for flaming.

(Or does anyone have any new insults? I'm guessing just the same ol' same ol' clever insults from the other thread.)

[Lubawski]

How many members does CoRT have? Because that's about how many "no" votes there will be.

26, but I think some of them probably did lose respect for their clan's decision.

[Lubawski]

l!ol.

I would like to request that this thread be preemptively locked for flaming.

(Or does anyone have any new insults? I'm guessing just the same ol' same ol' clever insults from the other thread.)

It's not intended to be flames here Angela. Just a healthier discussion in a better place than the challenge thread. There is nothing wrong with an opinion poll. No one is forcing you to read this, and no one is making personal attacks (and I hope they won't, especially considering it is unclear who in KORT voted which way).

[Chariot of Fire]

It's by no means a flame. It's an opinion poll - democracy working at its finest. The results may prove to be very beneficial for tourney organizers when drafting rules in future, and for clans to make a more-informed decision if ever they are afforded the opportunity to claim an extraordinary number of games that weren't won on the battlefield.

It gets my vote.

[ljex]

I would have preferred for KORT to choose one active game (that TOFU was ahead in and CoF was in) to remake and play again without him. I don't agree with forfeits. It's a cowardly way to go, especially when it is an honest (or even careless) mistake.

Didnt even think of that though that is a great solution as well and i would be fine with that...i would even be fine if they picked a game he won from one of the first 2 rounds or waited for him to win one in the 3rd to remake and play without him.

[jefjef]

Instead of a public poll that could/would be skewed by those who don't care/are not in clans/or know specifically what is going on perhaps it's best to contact a clan leader from each clan. Then the leaders can poll the members and it could be a more clan member based opinion.

[Bones2484]

I voted yes.

Whenever G1 has had a problem in games we have first tried to get games remade. If that was not allowed, then we would accept a forfeit if it was the choice of the Clan Directors (or whoever was in charge). Rules are rules, but we'd much rather play the games than win by forfeit.

Had CORT done this first, I would have been fine with the forfeitures.

[waseemalim]

Fairly stupid and immature decision by KORT. Not sure what they wanted to prove.

[TheSaxlad]

Thats as maybe.

HOWEVER, it was their decision, and we have to respect that rather than going on at KORT, yes they may have made the wrong decision.

But who doesn't once in a while. Now can we just stop this sit back and look forward to thota vs KORT?

TheSaxlad

[Leehar]

Instead of a public poll that could/would be skewed by those who don't care/are not in clans/or know specifically what is going on perhaps it's best to contact a clan leader from each clan. Then the leaders can poll the members and it could be a more clan member based opinion.

CLA?

[Chariot of Fire]

Thats as maybe.

HOWEVER, it was their decision, and we have to respect that rather than going on at KORT, yes they may have made the wrong decision.

But who doesn't once in a while. Now can we just stop this sit back and look forward to thota vs KORT?

TheSaxlad

For sure we've all had moments when we've regretted saying or doing the wrong thing and thought "Oh I wish I could take that back". But to dwell on something for three days and as a collective group then vote in the manner they did is not really comparable to the odd gaffe.

[eddie2]

did i read correct that some of corts members are not happy with the final choice. well if so you know there is always a place in another clan for you.

[eddie2]

sorry for the 2nd post.

but i also think you should add a third choice in the poll for clan leaders. it should be along the lines of are your clans willing 2 face kort in challenges after they have made this kind of choice.

[Dako]

I think this thread is unnecessary because everyone here is glooming on KORT and I found it unchivalrously at least.

They had their decision, they need to stick to it and running such a poll with tons of flames will get us nowhere.

[Leehar]

did i read correct that some of corts members are not happy with the final choice. well if so you know there is always a place in another clan for you.

We're presuming they are unhappy because of comments that have been made, and obviously those votes against in the poll.
I'm sure if there are people unhappy with the final decision they would leave, but I think you're underestimating the clan dynamic. I believe that usually in tight-knit clans, people still defend their members and their clan as a whole if they're under attack from outside influences. I think while this whole incident may dishonor the clan in other peoples eyes, it also stands the possibility of making those who stick to their decisions stronger as a unit, if they can credibly back their stance, which is still doubtful.

I just wonder if it's also possible for both clans to swallow their pride and compromise with each other. I think it's important if the leaders in both clans can get together and hash out a more amiable resolution between them, ignoring all the inflammatory comments that have taken place in the challenge thread (if thats even possible), and just take an objective look at the incident of cof's mistake and garner a positive outcome. Obviously no one's asking members within the clans to like each other, and I'm sure many within both clans hate each others guts with all the insults that are bandied about, but that shouldn't really be important on the challenges net outcome

[greenoaks]

i don't see what all the fuss is about

a rule was broken & the consequences were spelt out beforehand

but it shouldn't have been put on the opponent to pass judgement - the organisers should have manned up and done it themselves

and if the organisers do not want to mete out such a punishment, then LESSEN the consequences for future cups

[jpcloet]

Looking at the rules of the CCup, I still fail to understand why KORT was given the option to decide the penalty. It was an organizer run event, and the organizer should be the one to decide on a rule/penalty change if there is one. KORT should not have been put into the position to decide the penalty in the first place, and I know a few people are perceiving this as "I'm hoping KORT lets me out of a bad rule". If you are going to consult about a rule/penalty change, then you should involve all the clans involved in the event, even if the final decision will be one most do not like.

I've had a few pms about whether I should be intervening and over-ruling the decision. The CCup is a private event and does not interfere with anything official and is hence not the Clan Director's jurisdiction. There is a question in the CLA whether gaming privileges should be given to wars/events that contain "non-standard" penalties though, and clearly an attempt to create "standard practices" is something that the CLA does work on.

[jpcloet]

FYI - This thread will be on a short leash here on out so please keep it civil.