Napoleonic Europe 1812 - Ver 41/44 [Quenched]

[ender516]

Well, the Orient bonus is outlined on both maps in brown with a dashed effect, but it might be a good idea to make the small and large maps more consistent in their labelling. You need to take Corsica to have the France bonus. Here again, the territories of the France bonus is all outlined in one colour, a slate blue-grey, and include all of Metropolitan France (the Hexagon and Corsica) while the extra territories of L'Empire have a dashed effect. I wouldn't say the colours are confusing. I think they are a well-executed scheme to convey a complex bonus system.

[Kabanellas]

oh and and also the Orient part had me a little confused. larger map it just say Orient under Egypt. then I was told to read underneath it. that time I was in the smaller map and it said Egypt + Palestine. so that was a bit confusing as well

In the large map we use a different font to name all different Countries/bonus zones, so I could easily insert the 'Orient' word with no further explanations, marking that way a distinct Zone. In the small map that 'different font' doesn't appear so when I inserted the 'Orient' word in the font used for the region names I felt the need to add that little explanation - Orient = Palestine + Egypt - or people might take Orient has a region, mistaking it by Egypt.

[Army of GOD]

Is everyone ok with these changes to the bonus structure plus the addition of the Naples Bosnia link ?

Here we go. Changed the legend according to that last suggestion.

Also changed the bonus structure - applying what has been discussed in the last weeks:

-Kingdoms of Naples, Sweden and Denmark bonuses all lowered to 1.
-United Kingdom lowered from 3 to 2
-made a connection between Naples and Bosnia

Click image to enlarge.

Make Spain a +3 bonus and I'll love it

[Kabanellas]

The problem with Spain is that if you also grab Portugal you'll be in a cluster receiving 2 (Spain) + 2 (Battle bonus) + 1 (Portugal) + 1 (Madrid auto-deploy) = 5 + 1 (auto-deploy) with just 4 regions to defend.

I think it's quite appealing as it is now, and the proof is that, in the majority of the games I've played, people will focus their attention there most of the time...

[Raskholnikov]

-United Kingdom lowered from 3 to 2
-made a connection between Naples and Bosnia

I'm sorry but I don't agree with these two changes. They are entirely ahistorical and change the nature of the game. Giving the Ottomans the option of getting into Italy and central Europe though Naples makes no sense; and lowering th UK to the same bonus as Spain ignores the fact the UK was the power who finally defeated Napoleon, both in Spain and in Belgium, and financed much of the wars against Napoleon.

Whilst I have no problem with the other changes, these two I cannot support.

[Kabanellas]

Hi Rask !

Well..... I understand your concerns in a conceptual way. But truth is that we need to make it work as a playable map - and game-play here is of the essence.

though I'm not entirely worried about the UK, the Kingdom of Naples does worry me. As it is now is too well protected by neutral troops. What if we link it to Illyria instead of Bosnia?

[Raskholnikov]

Yes, much better. I can live with Naples being linked with Illyria. You may wonder why I'm making a fuss about one province, but it does make a difference, both historically and game-play-wise. So go ahead with the Naples - Illyria link and all the others you proposed, except the UK which should remain as is, at +3. Many thanks!

[ender516]

I can fix the XML again once you post a new image.

I did wonder about reducing the UK. It has no battle sites to boost its total bonus value.

In the interests of full disclosure, I am holding the UK in a game right now, so it might be said I have a vested interest in maintaining its value.

[The Bison King]

did wonder about reducing the UK. It has no battle sites to boost its total bonus value.

I wonder about that too

[brucemoose]

i played this map going by what it said: own 5 capitals wins the game. I took 5 capitals and nothing happened....i didn't win the game. Need to clarify how long you must hold the 5 capitals. I took it at word value and it probably has cost me the game.

[Army of GOD]

For all "hold and win" maps, you have to hold the winning conditions for at least one turn.

[ender516]

Luckily, to go along with the new losing conditions/requirements XML feature (where you can be immediately eliminated if you fail to hold a particular territory or set thereof), there is a movement to update the Instructions to make this sort of thing clearer. I hope an improved map browser will also flag features like this, so no one will be surprised by the features of a map.

[Arama86n]

I see it's been noted before but to clarify;

On large map (too?) (before it was mentioned small map) in drop down list it says
Sw: Switzerland...
Sw: Saxony... <--
On actuall map Saxony is correctly abbreviated Sx.

I suppose this is a two click fix next time XML is updated, no biggy =)

Arama86n assaulted Sw: Saxony (Leipzig, October 1813) from Bv: Bavaria and conquered it from

P.S. Loving the map!

[ender516]

I see it's been noted before but to clarify;

On large map (too?) (before it was mentioned small map) in drop down list it says
Sw: Switzerland...
Sw: Saxony... <--
On actuall map Saxony is correctly abbreviated Sx.

I suppose this is a two click fix next time XML is updated, no biggy =)

Arama86n assaulted Sw: Saxony (Leipzig, October 1813) from Bv: Bavaria and conquered it from

P.S. Loving the map!

I have fixed this in version 1.12 of the XML, which I posted on Sep. 29. However, after that, there was some discussion about keeping the UK bonus at +3, and connecting Naples to Illyria instead of Bosnia. Once I see new images which show that, I can post another version of the XML, and we can get the new versions uploaded for more beta testing.

[Patriot1985]

My friends and I agree this is the best map. We noticed lately that the +1 bonus for Warsaw w/ Prussia is disabled.

Also, I would disagree with connecting Naples with Illyria. While Naples does seem well defended, it is not a particularly wealthy region either and connecting it to another province may reduce further the incentive to center an empire in that region.

My humble opinions.

--Patriot1985

[ender516]

My friends and I agree this is the best map. We noticed lately that the +1 bonus for Warsaw w/ Prussia is disabled.

Also, I would disagree with connecting Naples with Illyria. While Naples does seem well defended, it is not a particularly wealthy region either and connecting it to another province may reduce further the incentive to center an empire in that region.

My humble opinions.

--Patriot1985

The bonus for Poland (Warsaw and Krakow) overrides both the Warsaw w/ Prussia and the Krakow w/ Austrian Empire bonuses.

[Kabanellas]

Guys, I've been abroad in the last few days and I'm also in the process of changing from my old apartment where I've been living for the last 10 years to a new one. So my updates will be slower. Sorry....

I'll post the new version in the next couple of days

[Robis]

Hi. I'm not a forum addict, but i must post here to give my congratulations to the developers of this map. This is probably the best one i've ever played, although i'm a realtively new user. Best graphic, best gameplay and actually a very good division of bonuses. About the Kingdom of Two Sicilies, it's well defended but maybe it's overestimated, because there is a nice sea way to threat it from south (Malta).

EDIT: I noticed the sicilies bonus reduction, but i have to note how the kingdom is threated by 3 sides (sardinia, north italy and malta), that is a very hard requirement for just a single army bonus)

Regards

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot Robis for your support

Here they are the latest changes

-Kingdoms of Sweden, Denmark and Naples will maintain there +1 status
-UK will maintain the +3
-and no connection from Naples too Illyria (or Bosnia)

Large map version 41

Click image to enlarge.

Small map version 44

Click image to enlarge.

if everyone agrees with these, I'll post them in the first page

[Arama86n]

I agree 100% Kabanellas. dropping the Scandinavian countries [from +2 to +1] was the right choice, dropping UK would have been far more questionable. I also fully support abandoning the idea of the sea route. I do not find "italy" to be an attractive continent to hold, so to speak, and the suggested sea route would only weaken it's viabillity as an attractive home base in NS & FR games for example.
my 5c

[danryan]

All excellent choices. This map is ready to be quenched and go live. An A+ effort, you and cairns are my top 2 favorite mapmakers on CC now.

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot Dan, it really means a lot!!!! Especially coming from you

The map files have been updated in the first page

[ender516]

I guess that means I have another XML update to make. I will try for tonight.

[MrBenn]

Cool fish.

[ender516]

Okay, here it is: NapoleonicEurope.V1.13.xml

This latest version differs from V1.12 (which never went live) in that V1.13 restores the United Kingdom bonus to 3 and removes the Naples-Bosnia link (which was proposed and accepted in this thread, but never made it onto a graphical version).

So, if this version goes live, it differs from the current live version (V1.11) in that the bonuses for Sweden, Naples, and Denmark have all been reduced from 2 to 1, and the abbreviation used in the XML for Saxony has been corrected from Sw to Sx.

Kabanellas, you will likely want to update the first post with the following:

XML- http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/11/9/2644838/NapoleonicEurope.V1.13.xml
Large map- http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/NapoleonicEurope_V41a_Image_OF.png
Small map- http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/af105/Kabanellas/NapoleonicEurope_V44_Image_small_OF.png