[Abandoned] - Pachisi!

[Victor Sullivan]

So... What now? Graphics? (though I could probably just skip that ) or are there some Gameplay things that still need hammered out?

-Sully

[ender516]

Stylish new look, indeed! Kudos to Spike Warden. I'm not sure the triple line impassables are as clear and obvious as I would like, but the legend clarifies the nest to safe zone attacks, and the rest of it is fairly obvious to anyone who has played a game on a board like this, which must be most of the planet's population.
The term "auto-kill" is not a common one in the maps I've seen. If I recall, it is an auto-deploy of a very large negative number, so it is almost like a killer neutral, except that you don't lose the region, just your stack. It might be best just to say auto-deploy -10000 (or whatever number you choose) so the "lawyers" don't demand their points back in the build game where someone else had an enormous stack which wasn't virtually annihilated.

[Victor Sullivan]

Stylish new look, indeed! Kudos to Spike Warden. I'm not sure the triple line impassables are as clear and obvious as I would like, but the legend clarifies the nest to safe zone attacks, and the rest of it is fairly obvious to anyone who has played a game on a board like this, which must be most of the planet's population.
The term "auto-kill" is not a common one in the maps I've seen. If I recall, it is an auto-deploy of a very large negative number, so it is almost like a killer neutral, except that you don't lose the region, just your stack. It might be best just to say auto-deploy -10000 (or whatever number you choose) so the "lawyers" don't demand their points back in the build game where someone else had an enormous stack which wasn't virtually annihilated.

You're auto-kill definition is spot-on. Thanks ender! And Spike says thanks, too

-Sully can't wait for more comments!

[TaCktiX]

Um, can I say a simple "Holy Shit"? INSANELY big improvement, very clean look and the gameplay is almost completely understandable. Other people have addressed the Autokill and the triple line clarifications, but here are a couple of others:

- I genuinely can't read the "Z" of safe zones, it looks like a 2 or something. Perhaps a change in designated letter to S?
- The colors of the safe zones and nests seem to indicate more gameplay than there actually is. Like when I see the colors on a safe zone, I think that the colors similar to the nest mean the nest can attack those safe zones (which is correct for some), including the erroneous V, W, X, Y ones. I know it's a color coordination thing picked up from the actual game of Pachisi, but perhaps a more neutral set of colors for those 4 spots in particular?

[Victor Sullivan]

Um, can I say a simple "Holy Shit"? INSANELY big improvement, very clean look and the gameplay is almost completely understandable. Other people have addressed the Autokill and the triple line clarifications, but here are a couple of others:

- I genuinely can't read the "Z" of safe zones, it looks like a 2 or something. Perhaps a change in designated letter to S?
- The colors of the safe zones and nests seem to indicate more gameplay than there actually is. Like when I see the colors on a safe zone, I think that the colors similar to the nest mean the nest can attack those safe zones (which is correct for some), including the erroneous V, W, X, Y ones. I know it's a color coordination thing picked up from the actual game of Pachisi, but perhaps a more neutral set of colors for those 4 spots in particular?

Okay, thanks. I'll take your comments into consideration (though they are graphics suggestions *hint* *hint* )

-Sully

[Industrial Helix]

Nice improvement.

But will the numbers fit on the small version? Remember, you have to have room for three numbers.

That said, I wonder if so many white spaces are needed.

And what do the pink spaces do?

[Victor Sullivan]

Nice improvement.

But will the numbers fit on the small version? Remember, you have to have room for three numbers.

Okay. I'll make sure to test the numbers.

That said, I wonder if so many white spaces are needed.

Hmmm... I prefer the number of white spaces that there are currently, though if the troop numbers don't fit I might have to merge them.

And what do the pink spaces do?

I don't understand. What "pink" spaces? Are you referring to the dark red spaces?

[kengyin]

i think he is referring to x2 y2 etc which is kind of pink as in your legend its just red with 1 2 and 3 objectives

[Industrial Helix]

Yeah, y2, x2, w2, v2. They're pink and I can't figure out why.

[Victor Sullivan]

Yeah, y2, x2, w2, v2. They're pink and I can't figure out why.

Ah, yes. That was so it'd look more like 3 red territories instead of seven individual spaces (also I think it's more visually appealing). I suppose we could change it, but again, this is a graphics thing and we're still in Gameplay. I can have this changed if you think it's necessary, but I'd like to focus on the gameplay first. As far as gameplay is concerned, what do you think needs changed, if anything? (If nothing, then I'll take my green stamp now, MrBenn)

-Sully

[Pirlo]

woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot it looks amazing
I <3 that game

[Evil DIMwit]

A few comments for now:

1. It's not clear that the lines of either side of the red zones are triple. Can you make them more prominent?

2. I presume for the "auto-kill" territories you'll just have an insanely high auto-decay? The term "auto-kill" won't be familiar to players, so you'll have to clarify what it means in the legend.

3. Strictly speaking, it's not a good idea to make it possible for a player to end up with no deployment at all; there should be a minimum of 1 at least. In this case you might get a pass because it would be so unusual for someone to lose their nest and all their white territories and nobody else winning any time soon.

4. You ought to reverse the number order in sections G, H, C, and D, so that the number increase along the direction of play.

5. I echo what Helix said about the troop numbers. Even if they fit on the current map, they won't fit on the small version.

[Victor Sullivan]

A few comments for now:

1. It's not clear that the lines of either side of the red zones are triple. Can you make them more prominent?

2. I presume for the "auto-kill" territories you'll just have an insanely high auto-decay? The term "auto-kill" won't be familiar to players, so you'll have to clarify what it means in the legend.

3. Strictly speaking, it's not a good idea to make it possible for a player to end up with no deployment at all; there should be a minimum of 1 at least. In this case you might get a pass because it would be so unusual for someone to lose their nest and all their white territories and nobody else winning any time soon.

4. You ought to reverse the number order in sections G, H, C, and D, so that the number increase along the direction of play.

5. I echo what Helix said about the troop numbers. Even if they fit on the current map, they won't fit on the small version.

You make some valid points. I'll see if I can get Spike to do an update soon, though I won't be able to talk to him about it till Monday afternoon.

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

Okay, so I've talked to Spike. He said he can't work on the map tonight, but he'll try to get it updated as soon as he can. Feel free to keep posting your thoughts/comments/suggestions/etc., though.

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

Alright! I sent your comments to Spike (finally!). He's gonna start working on it today, so hopefully I'll have a draft up for you relatively soon.

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

Alright, Spike said he's gonna get the update done today (Sunday) so hopefully I'll have it up for you by this evening. He just got over a viral infection, which was why it's been so long. I thought I'd let you know about the upcoming update so you can get your keyboards prepped and your fingers ready

-Sully

[ender516]

[sound of knuckles cracking]

[Victor Sullivan]

Hmm... Still haven't gotten an email from Spike I'll bother him today about it.

[Victor Sullivan]

After 3 illnesses and 2 home-improvement projects, Spike has finally finished it!!! He said he would get it done by today but I didn't exactly believe him - see my post above as to why (he got his 3rd illness that day ) Anyways, I have a small version for y'all, too!

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Comments are greatly appreciated!

-Sully

P.S. Spike promises he won't take so long on the updates from now on

[Victor Sullivan]

I noticed D3 is off-center; Spike's gonna fix that btw.

[Evil DIMwit]

You've addressed all of my previous concern except for the fact that it's possible to be stuck with no deploy at all -- for example, if you're left with only one Safe Zone. I feel like it's bad form to leave a player with absolutely nothing to do, so I'd be happier if there was a minimum of 1 troop deployment.

Having only two possible exits from each nest, and having to share those exits with another player, seems somewhat constraining for the opening. Can you expand the possible starting moves for each player?

[Victor Sullivan]

You've addressed all of my previous concern except for the fact that it's possible to be stuck with no deploy at all -- for example, if you're left with only one Safe Zone. I feel like it's bad form to leave a player with absolutely nothing to do, so I'd be happier if there was a minimum of 1 troop deployment.

Thanks ED (lol) for the comments! With the deploy of 1, I honestly would rather exclude that. If you use your Nest to get the Safe Zone and nothing more, or let's say you got crap rolls and couldn't go further (which wouldn't be likely - you would have 8 troops on your Nest at the start), then next turn, use your Nest troops to reinforce it then attack again next turn. Idk... Maybe you have a point, but I honestly would rather not clutter the legend more. If others seem to support your idea, I can't reject a majority, but for now I'd like to keep things as is.

Having only two possible exits from each nest, and having to share those exits with another player, seems somewhat constraining for the opening. Can you expand the possible starting moves for each player?

Yes: (Let us assume you have Nest A and an opponent has Nest B)

Situation 1 - Your opponent in Nest B takes ZB, since it's a shorter route to HOME. You can do 1 of 2 things: 1. Take ZA. Granted, it's a longer route to HOME, but there are more white spaces that you can easily take and therefore get a bigger bonus. In addition, ZB is on the way and you can nab all the territories your opponent "left behind". 2. Take your opponent's ZB. You don't want to let your opponent get the quicker route, and if he was careless, then he may have only left one troop there, making it easy pickings for you. If he wasn't, and left a decent amount of troops there to cover himself, then you might be stuck in your Nest from good defense rolls.
Situation 2 - Your opponent in Nest B takes ZA, in hopes he can get a bit of a troop bonus before he hits ZY. You again can do one of two things: 1. Take ZB. After all, it is the shortest route to HOME. The problem is your opponent can take spaces your large troop mass leaves behind. 2. Take ZA. You want the extra spaces, or maybe you don't want your opponent to have them. Two issues, though, are he could just as easily take it back if you don't fortify ZA, or he could take ZB and therefore have a quicker way to get to HOME.

On a side note, I'm gonna be changing the Safe Zone bonus to "+3 for 3" as opposed to "+2 for 2", just to prevent people a bit from attacking both Safe Zones from the get go.

Thanks again, ED, and I hope to see more comments!

-Sully

[Victor Sullivan]

EDIT: Updated the information on the first page. Changed the neutrals on the reds and the Nest starts with 4. Also updated all the stuff that's already on the map.


-Sully

[Evil DIMwit]

You've addressed all of my previous concern except for the fact that it's possible to be stuck with no deploy at all -- for example, if you're left with only one Safe Zone. I feel like it's bad form to leave a player with absolutely nothing to do, so I'd be happier if there was a minimum of 1 troop deployment.

Thanks ED (lol) for the comments! With the deploy of 1, I honestly would rather exclude that. If you use your Nest to get the Safe Zone and nothing more, or let's say you got crap rolls and couldn't go further (which wouldn't be likely - you would have 8 troops on your Nest at the start), then next turn, use your Nest troops to reinforce it then attack again next turn. Idk... Maybe you have a point, but I honestly would rather not clutter the legend more. If others seem to support your idea, I can't reject a majority, but for now I'd like to keep things as is.

I mean if you've got one safe zone and absolutely nothing else -- no nest or anything. I suppose it is a very unlikely situation, unless some players are malicious. I guess I can let it stand as it is.

Having only two possible exits from each nest, and having to share those exits with another player, seems somewhat constraining for the opening. Can you expand the possible starting moves for each player?

Yes: (Let us assume you have Nest A and an opponent has Nest B)

Situation 1 - Your opponent in Nest B takes ZB, since it's a shorter route to HOME. You can do 1 of 2 things: 1. Take ZA. Granted, it's a longer route to HOME, but there are more white spaces that you can easily take and therefore get a bigger bonus. In addition, ZB is on the way and you can nab all the territories your opponent "left behind". 2. Take your opponent's ZB. You don't want to let your opponent get the quicker route, and if he was careless, then he may have only left one troop there, making it easy pickings for you. If he wasn't, and left a decent amount of troops there to cover himself, then you might be stuck in your Nest from good defense rolls.
Situation 2 - Your opponent in Nest B takes ZA, in hopes he can get a bit of a troop bonus before he hits ZY. You again can do one of two things: 1. Take ZB. After all, it is the shortest route to HOME. The problem is your opponent can take spaces your large troop mass leaves behind. 2. Take ZA. You want the extra spaces, or maybe you don't want your opponent to have them. Two issues, though, are he could just as easily take it back if you don't fortify ZA, or he could take ZB and therefore have a quicker way to get to HOME.

By "expand," I don't mean describe each one in detail. I mean make it so that the map has more possible starting moves so that players have more options. In fact, now that I look at it, it looks like you should open up the map in general -- make it so that players can take alternate routes because right now you're just forcing them in a circle.

[wisemanpsemc]

The map has come a long way from when I first saw it. Kudos on the hard work. To me it looks like there is some lack of consistency on the shade of color for the designators going around the board. It seems that it is suppose to alternate between a darker and lighter shade, but this seems to slack off, for example G2-G3 look the same shade while G1 and G4 are slightly darker. This is not consistent with the alternating in other sections.

I am looking forward to playing this one though. I think it will be a lot of fun.