Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

[Kabanellas]

I suggest an adjustment to the reinforcement setup.
As it stands, Clandemonium uses the standard 3 troop deployment with +1 for every 3 over 12 regions. This could be changed to 1 troop with +1 for every 2 regions (or anything similar of your fancy really)

If Ender's suggestion doesn't help. I'm ok with that Bunga. We would scrap the green region bonus and keep the standard region number bonus, adjusting it. If so, could we take the usual 12 region number down?

Making it like : 3 troops for owning 6 (or less) regions and +1 for every 2 regions above 6

[Blitzaholic]

see if ender516 suggestion works first if you don't mind bunga, thx.

[chipv]

Would it help to insert the following at the top of the XML?

Code: Select all

<!DOCTYPE map [
<!ENTITY GreenRegions "<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 01</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 02</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 03</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 04</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 05</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 06</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 07</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 08</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 09</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 10</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 11</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 12</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 13</territory>
<territory>The Spanking Monkeys 14</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 01</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 02</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 03</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 04</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 05</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 06</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 07</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 08</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 09</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 10</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 11</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 12</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 13</territory>
<territory>The Odd Fellows Union 14</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 01</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 02</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 03</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 04</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 05</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 06</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 07</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 08</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 09</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 10</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 11</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 12</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 13</territory>
<territory>Immortal Assassins 14</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 01</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 02</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 03</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 04</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 05</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 06</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 07</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 08</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 09</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 10</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 11</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 12</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 13</territory>
<territory>Imperial Dragoons 14</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 01</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 02</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 03</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 04</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 05</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 06</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 07</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 08</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 09</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 10</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 11</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 12</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 13</territory>
<territory>Angels of Death 14</territory>
<territory>The Legion 01</territory>
<territory>The Legion 02</territory>
<territory>The Legion 03</territory>
<territory>The Legion 04</territory>
<territory>The Legion 05</territory>
<territory>The Legion 06</territory>
<territory>The Legion 07</territory>
<territory>The Legion 08</territory>
<territory>The Legion 09</territory>
<territory>The Legion 10</territory>
<territory>The Legion 11</territory>
<territory>The Legion 12</territory>
<territory>The Legion 13</territory>
<territory>The Legion 14</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 01</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 02</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 03</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 04</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 05</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 06</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 07</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 08</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 09</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 10</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 11</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 12</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 13</territory>
<territory>Legends of War 14</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 01</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 02</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 03</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 04</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 05</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 06</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 07</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 08</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 09</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 10</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 11</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 12</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 13</territory>
<territory>The Horsemen of the Apocalypse 14</territory>
<territory>Empire 01</territory>
<territory>Empire 02</territory>
<territory>Empire 03</territory>
<territory>Empire 04</territory>
<territory>Empire 05</territory>
<territory>Empire 06</territory>
<territory>Empire 07</territory>
<territory>Empire 08</territory>
<territory>Empire 09</territory>
<territory>Empire 10</territory>
<territory>Empire 11</territory>
<territory>Empire 12</territory>
<territory>Empire 13</territory>
<territory>Empire 14</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 01</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 02</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 03</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 04</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 05</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 06</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 07</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 08</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 09</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 10</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 11</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 12</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 13</territory>
<territory>Black Sheep Squadron 14</territory>" > <!-- end of ENTITY GreenRegions -->
]>


and then define the Green Region continents as follows (I won't put them all here):

Code: Select all

<!-- Green Regions -->

<continent>
<name>2 Green Regions</name>
<bonus>1</bonus>
<components>
&GreenRegions;
</components>
<required>2</required>
</continent>

<continent>
<name>4 Green Regions</name>
<bonus>2</bonus>
<components>
&GreenRegions;
</components>
<required>4</required>
<overrides>
<override>2 Green Regions</override>
</overrides>
</continent>

.
.
.



I would feel more comfortable with this suggestion if the map XML still contained the <?xml ... ?>, so I would know where an internal entity could be defined.

If this doesn't work out, changing the standard troop deployment to +1 for every two regions would be a good start. The specific effect of not awarding these troops for non-green regions could probably be done with a smaller set of continents with negative bonuses.

Fantastic idea!

There is nothing stopping you having the first xml tag at the top before the doctype.
The only problem might be with the XML parser being used in the server script
but it really ought to be one that handles entities in XML so this is definitely an experiment worth trying as
other mapmakers could really use this too.

[MrBenn]

It'll be dependant on whether or not the XML parser allows the use of entities; I was under the impression that it didn't, but we'll have to wait until lack returns from his wanderings before getting an official answer.

[ender516]

The fact remains that this is an extraordinarily large number of continents, which may bog down add-ons like BOB and Clicky Maps, regardless of the way those continents are defined, so my suggestion may not get us out of the woods.

[Kabanellas]

In that case, if Blitz agrees, I'm ok with this:

We would scrap the green region bonus and keep the standard region number bonus, adjusting it. If so, could we take the usual 12 region number down?

Making it like : 3 troops for owning 6 (or less) regions and +1 for every 2 regions above 6

[Blitzaholic]

In that case, if Blitz agrees, I'm ok with this:

We would scrap the green region bonus and keep the standard region number bonus, adjusting it. If so, could we take the usual 12 region number down?

Making it like : 3 troops for owning 6 (or less) regions and +1 for every 2 regions above 6

If that will fix the issue and make it playable, I agree with Kab.

[Kabanellas]

Bungalow, any news?

[ManBungalow]

Very nearly finished the coordinates - I'm going through the document and adjusting each one manually, as there were just so many dodgy placements in the previous attempt.

When I've done this, I'll send two versions to MrBenn for upload -

One with the continent override chain as initially planned, largely for coordinate testing and such.
One with the entity suggestion made by ender516 in place, possibly so lackattack can confirm its practicality.

Apologies for the latest delay, I've been out of town.

[Blitzaholic]

Very nearly finished the coordinates - I'm going through the document and adjusting each one manually, as there were just so many dodgy placements in the previous attempt.

When I've done this, I'll send two versions to MrBenn for upload -

One with the continent override chain as initially planned, largely for coordinate testing and such.
One with the entity suggestion made by ender516 in place, possibly so lackattack can confirm its practicality.

Apologies for the latest delay, I've been out of town.

great work Bunga, thx for your time and effort.

Thank You to Mr.Benn as well.

[lackattack]

It'll be dependant on whether or not the XML parser allows the use of entities; I was under the impression that it didn't, but we'll have to wait until lack returns from his wanderings before getting an official answer.

I tried this on the test site and it didn't work. Unfortunately our parser (SimpleXML) does not support defining entities

[ender516]

It'll be dependant on whether or not the XML parser allows the use of entities; I was under the impression that it didn't, but we'll have to wait until lack returns from his wanderings before getting an official answer.

I tried this on the test site and it didn't work. Unfortunately our parser (SimpleXML) does not support defining entities

That's a real shame. I was afraid that this might be the case, but in any event, it is good to know before I spend any time using them in any other XML that I might be working on.

[ManBungalow]

BLITZERHOLIC, YOUR ATTENTION IS REQUIRED.

I suggest this:

We would scrap the green region bonus and keep the standard region number bonus, adjusting it. If so, could we take the usual 12 region number down?

Making it like : 3 troops for owning 6 (or less) regions and +1 for every 2 regions above 6

Every other aspect of the gameplay can remain as it is. Do I have the go-ahead?

[natty dread]

BLITZERHOLIC, YOUR ATTENTION IS REQUIRED.

You should just pm him

[grifftron]

BLITZERHOLIC, YOUR ATTENTION IS REQUIRED.

You should just pm him

No, this way others can see whats happening in case someone else has some input... DO IT!!

[Blitzaholic]

BLITZERHOLIC, YOUR ATTENTION IS REQUIRED.

I suggest this:

We would scrap the green region bonus and keep the standard region number bonus, adjusting it. If so, could we take the usual 12 region number down?

Making it like : 3 troops for owning 6 (or less) regions and +1 for every 2 regions above 6

Every other aspect of the gameplay can remain as it is. Do I have the go-ahead?

I would like to get Kab's feedback first, if he agrees, then I would be ok with this. If not, then we would need to rethink another option.

[Kabanellas]

I'm cool with it

Now I just have to find a way to add that piece of info there, in the legend board:

"1 troop for every 2 regions above 6" - I think this is the best way to write it down.....

[Blitzaholic]

I'm cool with it

Now I just have to find a way to add that piece of info there, in the legend board:

"1 troop for every 2 regions above 6" - I think this is the best way to write it down.....

That sounds good Kab.

[iancanton]

when a player begins with 'Empire', they will have 3 troops ready before auto-deployments.

is it in order to have the empire landing point start with 4 or 5 troops rather than 3 (5 appears to be the average)? i regard empire as having the weakest position of all clans, especially in those games where it starts after black sheep squadron, since it's not possible to build on 2 or 3 regions to block off a chunk of the home neighbourhood that both includes the landing point and keeps contact with either clan portals or clans' grounds. this disadvantage is unique to empire.

ian.

[MrBenn]

People will complain if the number of armies given out at the start is uneven, regardless of whether it is planned that way to even out any slight imbalance (it happened with Third Crusade, and had to be adjusted to make the starts even).

[Blitzaholic]

People will complain if the number of armies given out at the start is uneven, regardless of whether it is planned that way to even out any slight imbalance (it happened with Third Crusade, and had to be adjusted to make the starts even).

agreed

[Kabanellas]

but in order to balance all these starting points - that have unique characteristics between themselves - we need to adjust some values. Just as studied in the chart below:

Click image to enlarge.

...and I'd surely prefer to slightly decrease some starting troops that start making walls of neutral troops between those starting points......

[MrBenn]

While I have nothing against your reasoning for wanting to vary the troop numbers, you have to think about more than just distances. In card games (in fact any game, really), the player with more troops has an easier chance of picking up cards and expanding territory.

Sadly, the way that CCers like to complain, I can guarantee that there will be an almighty backlash for those who start with 3 armies, if an opponent starts with 7. I can see the complaints and screenshots showing the "unfairness" now. This first impression might put people off playing the map again.

As for "walls of neutrals", you only need to look at the thought DiM put into spreading neutrals around on the Age of Realms maps to see that you don;t need a wall, but some carefully thought out variation.

[Kabanellas]

..but Ben, remember that this slight difference of 3 troops, will be critical in the first 2 rounds of the game, but will quickly be diluted in the next rounds....

[Blitzaholic]

I respect your viewpoint here Kab, but, I am leaning on MrBenn's thoughts and there could be a lot of loud distaste for some starting with 3 and others 5, etc., we certainly do not want this map to be a flop, especially after putting in almost 10 months worth of work.

I think it would be best if all started out with the same amount, and we can slightly tweak spreading neutrals around the map creatively to offer some balance. This would solve the issue in my view.

Kab, if you agree, maybe you could do some screenshots of some different variations so all can see this and we could collaborate together on some skillful balance.