Re: Thyseneal: V 3.6 ::REVAMP::

[natty dread]

Honestly I can't tell the difference between the two.

Honestly, I never could either... but I guess there has to be some difference, why else would they name them differently?

(actually now that I look at them closely, there are some slight shade differences... see Itheria.)

Also, I don't think there's any problem with the colours, you have a minimap anyway... But you might consider slightly thicker borders between bonus areas, just to make sure?

[mattattam]

colors look good here

[RedBaron0]

Agreed with slightly thicker borders for bonus areas.

[thenobodies80]

Maybe it's just a crazy late night thought, but looking at the map and the colorblind test, I would say that the test colors seem more pleasing to me than the original ones....

[natty dread]

Sorry for not noticing this before... but the Caprinthia area seems really unclear in the small version. The borders and territory names are too similar in tone and strength, and seem to sort of blend in to each other... this makes it a bit difficult to see which territories actually border which. Perhaps you could make the borders stronger here, or abbreviate some of those long names to make them fit inside the borders better, or something.

Also: Dunfunf Vally? Are you sure you don't mean Valley?

[The Bison King]

Also: Dunfunf Vally? Are you sure you don't mean Valley?

good catch! it's things like these which are so important to catch. yeah I'll strengthen the borders (I was just about to do a new draft, I'll have it up later tonight. (permitting a tornado doesn't destroy my house)

[The Bison King]

here's the 600x600

[mattattam]

I think that is a little bit too thick. Looks unnatural and is a bit distracting. If you made it more black instead of gray I think that would make it so it wouldn't have to be so thick and would do the job.

[The Bison King]

I think that is a little bit too thick. Looks unnatural and is a bit distracting. If you made it more black instead of gray I think that would make it so it wouldn't have to be so thick and would do the job.

The borders I added are literally 2 pixels wide, It's pretty much either just leave it how it was or do nothing. Maybe darken it in a few regions.

[mattattam]

The borders I added are literally 2 pixels wide, It's pretty much either just leave it how it was or do nothing. Maybe darken it in a few regions.

Yeah I understand. It's just so unattractive like this... I personally didn't have an issue with the borders being too light but I can see how some people would think it is. Perhaps someone with more map making knowledge could suggest a better solution.

[The Bison King]

Solution: A handsome, 1 pixel, pure black line separating all of the bonus regions.

Does it bother any one that the name Livonia actually turns out to be some Baltic tribe from days of old. You can see it as a territory on TheBastards Baltic crusade map.

viewtopic.php?f=241&t=107186

If this comes off as a problem I can either change it to: Livinia/the Livinian Empire, or Lyalia/the Lyalian Empire

ALSO! is this around the time I should start scripting this? I was looking at some scripting on other maps and I'm pretty sure I understand how it works. although I wouldn't mind if someone gave me a little guidance as I got started.

[natty dread]

Does it bother any one that the name Livonia actually turns out to be some Baltic tribe from days of old. You can see it as a territory on TheBastards Baltic crusade map.

Well, it could bother some of the history freaks... but I don't see any reason for changing it. After all, if we assume this is a world in some parallel universe, who's to say they wouldn't have some country names that are similar to ours, purely by coincidence...

[mattattam]

Those borders still look out of place to me. Better but idk. Anyone else think so or is it just me?

Also in the small map I don't see the word 'valley' in territory "Dunfunf valley". It doesn't look like it would fit anywhere.

[RedBaron0]

Maybe it's just a crazy late night thought, but looking at the map and the colorblind test, I would say that the test colors seem more pleasing to me than the original ones....

I agree with thenobodies... gives the map a slightly faded appearance which is pleasing to the eye.

[The Bison King]

Also in the small map I don't see the word 'valley' in territory "Dunfunf valley". It doesn't look like it would fit anywhere.

Yeah I took it out of the small because it didn't want to fit. It would read Dunfunf valley in the script. If it seems weird not to have the word valley on just the small I can take it out of the large as well.

Maybe it's just a crazy late night thought, but looking at the map and the colorblind test, I would say that the test colors seem more pleasing to me than the original ones....

I could try applying a slight sepia filter. Something subtle my not be too bad.

Those borders still look out of place to me. Better but idk. Anyone else think so or is it just me?

what does anyone else think indeed? I would like to know as well. well anyone else, borders?

[The Bison King]

Ok, I reduced the opacity a little on the continent borders. Also I added a slight sepia finish to the whole thing.

So I'm getting to the point again on this one where I am running out of things to change. If any one has any more suggestions please bring them up now because I'll be asking for the Graphics Stamp soon. I might touch up a few things here or there but there isn't really anything that stands out to me at this point.

Also with the scripting??? Can I just do that in a regular type program, or do I need to do that in a special program?

[natty dread]

At this point, you should remove the 88:s from the image so you can start working on the XML. You don't want to put army numbers on top of army numbers

Anyway, for making XML, I suggest the XML wizard - it is by far the most sophisticated tool you can find, and easy to use too. Although since you're working on this map alone, you should have no problems finding someone to do the XML for you - just promise them a map medal (each map can get 2)

As for graphics... I have a few things in mind: you could use some more land/sea separation. I would recommend a slight dark outline around all of the land area. It wouldn't mess with the style of the map too much, while helping with legibility.

The territory borders need to be stronger yet. They're still a bit hard to see. Don't be afraid to experiment with them, you can always change them back if you don't like them. To be honest I'd like to see the territory borders almost as strong as the bonus area borders are now, and the bonus area borders perhaps a little stronger.

You could also give the legend a black outline.

Something about the font bothers me slightly, but I can't quite put my finger on it...

The sea connections look a bit plain and boring. Maybe you could make them look like they were painted on, ie. so the line thickness varies and make them curve a bit...

The legend frame also bothers me slightly. The ornaments between the bonus area names look a bit off... the white "bubbles" on top of the orange frame are inconsistent in shape, and frankly this looks a bit unprofessional. Perhaps you could do some copypasting to make them more uniform and symmetric?

Anyway, that's all for now... I hope I didn't overwhelm you with my bullet points. Overall the map is looking real nice, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it develops.

[The Bison King]

Anyway, for making XML, I suggest the XML wizard - it is by far the most sophisticated tool you can find, and easy to use too. Although since you're working on this map alone, you should have no problems finding someone to do the XML for you - just promise them a map medal (each map can get 2)

Well alright then! I'll do the XML if I have too but it anyone wants to do the XML for this map credit shall be awarded!

As for Everything else that you suggested, thanks for the input. I'll do another draft tonight or by Wednesday (it all depends on if anyone wants to hang out with me ) some of that seems a bit excessive but a lot of it I will take into consideration and play around with. Namely border visibility, and the sea connections.

The Sea connections I definitely agree with, I'll probably go with a more dotted line type approach.

As for border visibility... hmm... well I don't know I feel like I want to hear more peoples opinions on that. Matterman likes them how they are, and you want them darker. You guess so far are the only people to voice an opinion and I could go either way on it. So if you have an opinion let it be known! In the meantime I'll go ahead and darken them up though.

uh what else... Oh yeah font! well, I'm really a pretty big fan of that font, I'm really happy with it and think it really fits the style of the map. If more people complain about it I'll consider changing it though.

And again seriously, if someone wants to take on the XML I would be pleased as punch!

[The Bison King]

Hows this sit with you. I think this effect might be applied too heavily here but I think that this is a pretty good solution for the continent bonus border problem. What do you think??

[natty dread]

Hmm. They might be a bit too heavy now, yes. Either way I think it might look better if the same strength of lines went all around the land area, ie. between the land and sea. Now the bonus area borders look a bit out of place, they kinda end "abruptly" when it comes to the coastline. If the coastline would have the same borderlines as the bonus areas elsewhere, then it would look more consistent overall... am I making any sense?

[The Bison King]

I think the changes should be pretty obvious. This address most all of the issues you were talking (minus font as I mentioned before) Any way I'm pretty happy with it, I hope you like it. I spent all night doing this, I'll make the small later... for now sleep

[RedBaron0]

I like the direction you were going with the bonus borders, but agree they were way too dark. Turn them up a half a notch from where you're at and you're probably golden.... I still think the castles are too dark to double as army "circles." Going to a light gray or white might be the way to go. Perhaps a light color with a inner dark glow? Watch where your territory names cross borders, you lose some of the words. You can either erase the border just under and a pixel or two around the letter, or add a smidgen of glow/drop shadow to the text to better. I favor option one here.

[natty dread]

I have to say the addition of outlines to the land area does wonders for this map.

[The Bison King]

Can you read the text on this or is it too small?

[natty dread]

Some of it is fine... the pastel-coloured text on top of blue sea is a bit hard. Some parts on the land too...

Why not use the same font you use on the legend (on the bonus names.) That looks really clear and legible, you don't have to use it on the large but I think it would work for the small...

Also, get rid of the pastel-coloured text on the sea on both versions. It's not really a good combination... White works best on top of blue.