Beta map changes

[Halmir]

Concise description:

• Beta maps can change mid-game, that's a known risk when you sign up for one. What isn't known though is what HAS changed since you last took a turn, and that's causing a few nasty surprises. I've just seen one guy lose 53 armies on the AA gun on Das Schloss, because it now reverts to 5 neutrals each round.

Specifics/Details:

• My idea is that either a new text section be created below the map, for the map creator to broadcast a synopsis of recent changes, or this be PM'd out to all players who have a live game on that map. Again I accept the risk of playing on a map that is basically being play-tested, but it should be possible to give folks a bit of warning by telling them about the changes. I'm not even requesting a notice period, just tell me what's different

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• Makes the play testing more reliable and enjoyable

[edwinissweet]

idk how the synopsys would work, but it seems easier to update one file that shows up in all games with that map, than to PM every person playing in it with every update.

[jrh_cardinal]

I agree with edwin, but if you need it you can already go to the map foundry and find the thread in question, you'll be able to see the differences (though that is a bit more work for you )

[army of nobunaga]

I think... if you play a "Beta" map.. well you need to be aware this could happen. there are 157 other maps that are not beta you could choose from.

[AndyDufresne]

While a PM is probably not feasible, Lackattack is looking at various 'Smart Messages' for the Game Screen. I'll look into the feasibility of including an automated message to display on the Game Screen (with the map, where you take your turn), that could be generated saying that the map has received a Beta Update, and possibly with a link to the discussion topic in the Foundry.

All of the above is speculation, but I'll look into it.


--Andy

[squishyg]

I think... if you play a "Beta" map.. well you need to be aware this could happen. there are 157 other maps that are not beta you could choose from.

The OP is aware. What s/he's requesting is an easily found update on what has changed, preferably on the game screen. I think this makes sense, since the players are the test subjects for the gameplay, it would help them give feedback if they understand the map better.

[army of nobunaga]

I think... if you play a "Beta" map.. well you need to be aware this could happen. there are 157 other maps that are not beta you could choose from.

The OP is aware. What s/he's requesting is an easily found update on what has changed, preferably on the game screen. I think this makes sense, since the players are the test subjects for the gameplay, it would help them give feedback if they understand the map better.

I am aware the OP is AWARE. I guess my point is, when you go into a beta game... its friggin beta. Sure a nice little message would be cool. But unneeded in my opinion.

[army of nobunaga]

When I download the beta version of linux suse, and and online change happens to the core, I do not get a nice message from Novell saying "Hey man, I know you are trying this free BETA version of our great software, just wanted to let you know we changed some of the add-ons to the perl platform- basically because we had nothing better to do than to let you know- thanx Novell" .... No that doesnt happen... why?> because its beta, shit happens in beta. I learn about the changes in the novell forums.

[edwinissweet]

Thanks AoN for your opinion. Critism is important in ironing out suggestions.

If this idea is unnecesary it will get shut down by admin if it gets passed into submitted. So far it looks like it will get enough support to make it there. Idk if there is much to discuss since the alpha monkey has already spoken.

[porkenbeans]

While a PM is probably not feasible, Lackattack is looking at various 'Smart Messages' for the Game Screen. I'll look into the feasibility of including an automated message to display on the Game Screen (with the map, where you take your turn), that could be generated saying that the map has received a Beta Update, and possibly with a link to the discussion topic in the Foundry.

All of the above is speculation, but I'll look into it.


--Andy

A Smart Message sounds like a cool idea, but it should be followed, with a 72 hour waiting period, before the changes take effect.

[phantomzero]

While a PM is probably not feasible, Lackattack is looking at various 'Smart Messages' for the Game Screen. I'll look into the feasibility of including an automated message to display on the Game Screen (with the map, where you take your turn), that could be generated saying that the map has received a Beta Update, and possibly with a link to the discussion topic in the Foundry.

All of the above is speculation, but I'll look into it.


--Andy

A Smart Message sounds like a cool idea, but it should be followed, with a 72 hour waiting period, before the changes take effect.

This makes the most sense. While I accept that BETA maps can change. I would need to check the foundry about every BETA map before each turn to know if a change was coming or would be implemented.

Like Porky said, there should also be some waiting period after people are notified of impending changes. Presumably the map has been in BETA for awhile so an extra few days or a week shouldn't make too big of a difference.

[porkenbeans]

While a PM is probably not feasible, Lackattack is looking at various 'Smart Messages' for the Game Screen. I'll look into the feasibility of including an automated message to display on the Game Screen (with the map, where you take your turn), that could be generated saying that the map has received a Beta Update, and possibly with a link to the discussion topic in the Foundry.

All of the above is speculation, but I'll look into it.


--Andy

A Smart Message sounds like a cool idea, but it should be followed, with a 72 hour waiting period, before the changes take effect.

This makes the most sense. While I accept that BETA maps can change. I would need to check the foundry about every BETA map before each turn to know if a change was coming or would be implemented.

Like Porky said, there should also be some waiting period after people are notified of impending changes. Presumably the map has been in BETA for awhile so an extra few days or a week shouldn't make too big of a difference.

Yes, and it's not like every map has dozens of changes, every other day.

[phantomzero]

While a PM is probably not feasible, Lackattack is looking at various 'Smart Messages' for the Game Screen. I'll look into the feasibility of including an automated message to display on the Game Screen (with the map, where you take your turn), that could be generated saying that the map has received a Beta Update, and possibly with a link to the discussion topic in the Foundry.

All of the above is speculation, but I'll look into it.


--Andy

A Smart Message sounds like a cool idea, but it should be followed, with a 72 hour waiting period, before the changes take effect.

This makes the most sense. While I accept that BETA maps can change. I would need to check the foundry about every BETA map before each turn to know if a change was coming or would be implemented.

Like Porky said, there should also be some waiting period after people are notified of impending changes. Presumably the map has been in BETA for awhile so an extra few days or a week shouldn't make too big of a difference.

Yes, and it's not like every map has dozens of changes, every other day.

Yes indeed. Major chances like the Das Shloss are rare, and if I hadn't been paying any attention I would have had my 1500 stack on AA like some other poor dude did...

[army of nobunaga]

I think you guys are greedy for wins and you are using greed to slow up an already slow beta process. I wish beta maps changed more and became better in the beta phase.

You guys are jsut ensuring changes will be made slower..

This is all about das shloss and people crying over a single loss.

I would rather have good maps and a cleaner more streamlined map foundry process. I dont want the webmaster to hold up on friggin beta updates to make 20,000 users happy on a beta map.

Did I mention this is BETA?????

[Halmir]

I'm happy with an instant change. A surprise outcome once I've made my turn is not welcome though, so an instant note with an instant change would work well.

After all the dozens of suggestions I've posted over the years, to actually have one adopted would make my day!!! :D:D

[army of nobunaga]

I'm happy with an instant change. A surprise outcome once I've made my turn is not welcome though, so an instant note with an instant change would work well.

After all the dozens of suggestions I've posted over the years, to actually have one adopted would make my day!!! :D:D

instant note with instant change.. I agree.. I back that.

A note that makes the beta process slower... well. This isnt that important to me as good maps coming out of beta with the right changes.

[edwinissweet]

Yup. Im not for slowing the beta process.

I think that the note would also help out in the beta process, since people would know what exactly changed, and they can give their input on the change if they actually know what happened. Some folks, like myself, are not very observative.

[TheForgivenOne]

Big thumbs down on the wait a week or a few days. If that happens, soon we'll have about 30-40 maps in beta, instead of the usual 7-10.

[porkenbeans]

Big thumbs down on the wait a week or a few days. If that happens, soon we'll have about 30-40 maps in beta, instead of the usual 7-10.

How many updates, does the average map see in beta ?
If it is a very small number, like 1-3, then I do not really see a problem, other than maybe prolonging the maps stay in beta for a couple of days. And so what. What difference does that make ? The map WILL eventually be quenched. Has there ever been a map that
wasn't ?

My point is, If a map makes it through to beta, then the mapmaker and those that are its fans, should just go ahead and pop the cork, and celebrate. Maybe I am missing something here. But it seems to me as a mapmaker, I would want my map in beta as long as possible. That way I can perfect my map to its full limit.

I realize that with all of the various hoops that must be jumped through, a mapmaker may get a little anxious, and want to see the final hoop cleared, but if you get your map to beta, then you should try to rest easy, because for all intensive purposes, you have succeeded.

[TheForgivenOne]

Wouldn't know, i've been in the foundry about a max of 5 times.

[squishyg]

i don't think there's any need for there to be a waiting period. i'm aware that you're all aware that players are aware that playing beta maps is an at your own risk situation. i just think a in-game notice/pm/something would be nice.

[porkenbeans]

i don't think there's any need for there to be a waiting period. i'm aware that you're all aware that players are aware that playing beta maps is an at your own risk situation. i just think a in-game notice/pm/something would be nice.

You say that you do not see any need for a "waiting period". Well the "need" IS obvious, and if you want to look at it this way, then it would be better if you said, There is no need to "NOT" have a waiting period. I just do not understand, and for the life of me, do not see anything negative about a short waiting period. If you could find anything bad about this suggestion, then I would like to hear it.

[TheForgivenOne]

For maps that have been going through a lot of changes, such as Dos Schloss, and i believe Monsters has been going through a few changes, it would push production back further. I DON'T see a reason for a waiting period. You don't like a game/map that may change during game play, don't play them. Simple. You can easily wait for it to come out of beta. This came up after ONE change to a map that people have really liked.

[edwinissweet]

My opinion kinda changed after reading what porken said. I guess its really up to the cartographers whether there should be a waiting period. Perhaps a poll in the cartographers only forum could settle this. What he says about the artist wanting to make sure their creation is flawless before it goes live makes sense to me.

[army of nobunaga]

I still stand by that this is a friggin beta map... Its beta... PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.

If something can get implemented with no slowdowns -Promised- then im all for it.