4th Great Awakening in American History

[Frigidus]

The free market clearly didnt work for them because they were tens of billion of dollars in debt and needed to be ailed out.

are you retarded? you think we have 100% free market???? the only reason free market has failed is because socialism has overtaken it!

Wow. The problems came because the banks were allowed to do whatever they please, without regulation, and the higher ups decided to fund their decadent lifestyles through incredible risk that was covered up by the bought off ratings agencies. The market was too free.

[Roger Dodger]

I just feel like even if i wanted to go out and get a higher paying job, i would be screwed by the overspending and this healthcare plan.

is there no one here that can say that big government is crap? If they pass this healthcare plan we will all be screwed. all of us except for the non-taxpayers. if i could get away like others with not paying taxes, i would. i would take that money and pay for my own healthcare.

imagine that.

it's the little folks that the government goes after and freeze accounts and stuff if they don't pay taxes. when there are so many folks who get away with not paying or cheat the government.

amazing yet true....

[Titanic]

I just feel like even if i wanted to go out and get a higher paying job, i would be screwed by the overspending and this healthcare plan.

is there no one here that can say that big government is crap? If they pass this healthcare plan we will all be screwed. all of us except for the non-taxpayers. if i could get away like others with not paying taxes, i would. i would take that money and pay for my own healthcare.

imagine that.

it's the little folks that the government goes after and freeze accounts and stuff if they don't pay taxes. when there are so many folks who get away with not paying or cheat the government.

amazing yet true....

You will be able to pay for your own healthcare!!!! You get to decide to be with whoever you want (or your employer decides if you have employer based healthcare). The whole point of this reform is to reduce costs, stop healthcare companies abusing and taking advantage of people, and to try and stop the escalating healthcare costs which will cripple the economy in the long run in nothing is done.

[jay_a2j]

I just feel like even if i wanted to go out and get a higher paying job, i would be screwed by the overspending and this healthcare plan.

is there no one here that can say that big government is crap? If they pass this healthcare plan we will all be screwed. all of us except for the non-taxpayers. if i could get away like others with not paying taxes, i would. i would take that money and pay for my own healthcare.

imagine that.

it's the little folks that the government goes after and freeze accounts and stuff if they don't pay taxes. when there are so many folks who get away with not paying or cheat the government.

amazing yet true....

You will be able to pay for your own healthcare!!!! You get to decide to be with whoever you want (or your employer decides if you have employer based healthcare). The whole point of this reform is to reduce costs, stop healthcare companies abusing and taking advantage of people, and to try and stop the escalating healthcare costs which will cripple the economy in the long run in nothing is done.

And here lies the problem....... I pay almost $200 a month for health care, deducted from my paycheck. If I have the choice between that and FREE health care (it isn't, but bear with me a moment) I'm gonna keep my $200! They say, "You can keep the insurance you already have." but no one in their right mind is going to pay for it if they can get it "free".


Now, addressing the "freeness" of it. If it results in higher taxes, I'm paying for someone else's health care, while I maintain my own private health care at $200 a month. (Ya that sounds senseable!) As a matter of fact, there is no way possible I'm not paying for someone else's health care! Which leads me to do the only thing that makes sense..... if I'm going to pay for it anyways, I might as well use it and hop on board the "Big Daddy Government take care of me" train to hell. As substandard as it would be.

[Titanic]

And here lies the problem....... I pay almost $200 a month for health care, deducted from my paycheck. If I have the choice between that and FREE health care (it isn't, but bear with me a moment) I'm gonna keep my $200! They say, "You can keep the insurance you already have." but no one in their right mind is going to pay for it if they can get it "free".


Now, addressing the "freeness" of it. If it results in higher taxes, I'm paying for someone else's health care, while I maintain my own private health care at $200 a month. (Ya that sounds senseable!) As a matter of fact, there is no way possible I'm not paying for someone else's health care! Which leads me to do the only thing that makes sense..... if I'm going to pay for it anyways, I might as well use it and hop on board the "Big Daddy Government take care of me" train to hell. As substandard as it would be.

There is no free health care option in USA, its not a universal coverage, that has never been offered. The public option (which is probably going to be dropped), was going to be competing with the private care, but the payment system was the same. Your not automatically put in for free whilst others pay for your care.

[Nobunaga]

I just feel like even if i wanted to go out and get a higher paying job, i would be screwed by the overspending and this healthcare plan.

is there no one here that can say that big government is crap? If they pass this healthcare plan we will all be screwed. all of us except for the non-taxpayers. if i could get away like others with not paying taxes, i would. i would take that money and pay for my own healthcare.

imagine that.

it's the little folks that the government goes after and freeze accounts and stuff if they don't pay taxes. when there are so many folks who get away with not paying or cheat the government.

amazing yet true....

... Bastards! You mean like the Treasury Secretary, right? I wonder how much jail time he'll do...

... I wonder if I could get away with not paying my taxes for 2009, take it to court and use Geithner as precedence to win? ...

.... Anybody know a good lawyer?

...

[PLAYER57832]

You will be able to pay for your own healthcare!!!! You get to decide to be with whoever you want (or your employer decides if you have employer based healthcare). The whole point of this reform is to reduce costs, stop healthcare companies abusing and taking advantage of people, and to try and stop the escalating healthcare costs which will cripple the economy in the long run in nothing is done.

And here lies the problem....... I pay almost $200 a month for health care, deducted from my paycheck. If I have the choice between that and FREE health care (it isn't, but bear with me a moment) I'm gonna keep my $200! They say, "You can keep the insurance you already have." but no one in their right mind is going to pay for it if they can get it "free".

Herein lies the REAL problem. FIRST, you really pay far more than $200. You say you pay $200 a month for health care, deducted from your paycheck. But, in reality, I can almost gaurantee you truly pay far more, because your employer pays a good portion. I cannot find the statistic, but I heard that the average COBRA payment (allows you to continue with your insurance after leaving a job, but you pay the whole premium) was around $600 a month for a family of 4. Often the employer pays 2/3 and the employee pays 1/3 ... so that would be about right for you.

Now, for the bill... you would not be paying double. Under the original bill (the one cited in this forum many times) The healthcare offered is not a fully government system, "free", as you call it. You would have to select the public option and pay the premium. You could also elect to keep your current insurance OR you could get insurance from another company under the new terms.

Employers who do not offer insurance, would be charged a premium from the government, roughly equivalent to what is paid now for private insurance (actually, far less in many cases ... I heard $500 per employee and I have heard several small business owners say it would cost them $600 per employee to offer family coverage).

Now, addressing the "freeness" of it. If it results in higher taxes, I'm paying for someone else's health care, while I maintain my own private health care at $200 a month. (Ya that sounds senseable!) As a matter of fact, there is no way possible I'm not paying for someone else's health care! Which leads me to do the only thing that makes sense..... if I'm going to pay for it anyways, I might as well use it and hop on board the "Big Daddy Government take care of me" train to hell. As substandard as it would be.

Which is why that was not the original plan. Although, why you insist it would have to be substandard when every other industrialized country on Earth offers better overall care than most of us get. (not perfect, but definitely better)

At this point, though, it looks like ANY public option was taken off the table by Obama.

It would have been nice if you had actually read the bill before simply objecting "it's socialism".

[Snorri1234]

I'm paying for someone else's health care,

You are already paying for someone else's health care.

[Roger Dodger]

I pay over 380. every 2 weeks and, that doesn't include copay or, medicine or anything else.
and it happens if i use it or not.

I would rather keep that money and keep my taxes and use my medical as i need it.

healthcare used to be affordable. my dad used to take me to the docs and pay 25 bucks for a visit. hospital bills were affordable too. once upon a time.

now, it is truly out of control. i agree but, when you pay and don't use it. it sucks even more.

doesn't anyone here think that there should be control on hospital fees instead?

[Snorri1234]

Wow. I think I pay about 100 euros a month or something. And that funds everything except dental care (i believe).

[MrWainthrope]

doesn't anyone here think that there should be control on hospital fees instead?

No, because that would mean that the free market would not be truly free, which would lead to everything failing and being crap. Don't you know that the free market is the answer to everything and always provides the best answer to every single consumer need? If we had more control over medical fees then it would make our markets less free and that would be socialism and communism and that is automatically bad. We live in America, not Russia; we believe in free markets here and nothing else, because nothing else works and we know that and don't even have to consider the other options. Take your crazy ideas back to Stalinist China, maybe Uncle Lenin will give you a medal for them.

[PLAYER57832]

Wow. I think I pay about 100 euros a month or something. And that funds everything except dental care (i believe).

We pay about $170 a month, plus a $35 deductible for "emergency" or specialist visits. I put parenthesis around "emergency" because that means anything that won't wait a week or so for the kids or a month for myself, with only rare exceptions. (I can call the doctors anytime, and sometimes the kid's doctor will fit them in, but often things happen after hours).

Dental care is NOT covered. Eyeglasses and eye exams are NOT covered, even glaucoma tests (though many places do offer them for free). ADULT vaccinations are not covered, which is one reason I have not been able to work for the school. I was vaccinated, but the office that had my records out in CA closed long ago and PA won't accept that I had to have them to enter CA schools (for one thing, a lot of people got around that by claiming to be Christian Scientists, etc.). I would need a booster for many, anyway.

Further, our lifetime limit is around $3,000,000. That sounds like a lot, but for cancer.. even a major accident, it would disappear in a heartbeat.

[luns101]

.... Anybody know a good lawyer?

[PLAYER57832]

I pay over 380. every 2 weeks and, that doesn't include copay or, medicine or anything else.
and it happens if i use it or not.

I would rather keep that money and keep my taxes and use my medical as i need it.

healthcare used to be affordable. my dad used to take me to the docs and pay 25 bucks for a visit. hospital bills were affordable too. once upon a time.

now, it is truly out of control. i agree but, when you pay and don't use it. it sucks even more.

doesn't anyone here think that there should be control on hospital fees instead?

The primary reason for increased costs is dealing with insurance billing. I can remember when 3 doctors shared one receptionist who was also an RN. My children's doctor is in practice with 1 other doctor and a nurse practitioner. There are 6 receptionists AND 2 nurses. At least, I believe they are nurses because they give the injections, but they might not technically be RNs.

Why? because each insurance agency has multiple plans. You have to get pre-approval for most things and that approval is not consistant. This means the nurse/doctor has to call every time for every patient AND fill out multiple levels of paperwork for each treatment. This is even aside from the differences between one insurer and another.

In France, you can access ANY doctor in the country. The doctor's "billing department" is usually a drawer in his desk.

[PLAYER57832]

THAT was strange. I am sure I hit "submit post" only once, but it came up twice... then I was not able to delete the second post, but I COULD delete the first.. go figure!

[Phatscotty]

So, a year later. Has America waken up???

[BigBallinStalin]

My dear fat friend
Everything is so black and white to you ( no pun intended ) , there is such a thing as scale you realise. Even if the current economic situation in the USA were to get twice as bad, and last twice as long, the average citizen would still be vastly more affluent than those who were unfortunate enough to be born in the Third World. Stop whining and thank your lucky stars that it is only by chance that you have been able to stuff your face all your life rather than watch your children die of malnutrition.

Funny

I thought it was centuries of cultural superiority and greater work ethic as evidenced by yield.

I stand corrected. It was all 'luck'.

That's rich.

_______________________________________________________


But back to Phatscotty!

The BigBallinStalin Summer Camp is accepting applications! Good skills to learn for when must rely on one's own immediate resources while the government itself is too preoccupied with failing! J/K


And, I read through the forum, and didn't really see anyone address what Phatscotty mentioned.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but: This fall in the value of the dollar greatly decreases the average American's purchasing power. Since more money would be needed to spend on basic commodities, recreational goods, and what not while one's wages remain the same or even less than 5-10 years ago, we'll see less and less purchases being made over the years.

Wouldn't this cause the US to collapse within itself? Or am I assuming too much or am I simply not aware of other factors?

[Phatscotty]

the point is not "whether we will still be okay". The point is keeping it strong and leaving something stable for our children.

Are you ok with selling them short?

[BigBallinStalin]

the point is not "whether we will still be okay". The point is keeping it strong and leaving something stable for our children.

Are you ok with selling them short?

"It's not going to affect my children! GUFFAH HAH HAH!" --Rich fat businessman, who then taps his cigar ashes into your front shirt pocket.

[ghost2501]

I just want to say I believe in the constitution and I am aware of things going on today such as the laws that made the federal reserve and the money system tax codes income tax and many more things Glenn Beck talks about. He is a retard and a fools everyone into thinking he is uncovering things and fighting. Well when if comes to real important things for example the FEMA camps he did a segment acting all serious about fema camps and he was doing research etc. and he used an example that is on youtube that has been proven to be an amtrak repair station and said voila no such things. when anyone that looks into it can clearly see that out new laws post 911 include continuity of government and such things like fema camps. He dint mention that they were used in Seattle and the so called anarchists that started all the stuff there that got us lovely new laws like Free speech zones etc. well these anarchists walked and took over a building owned by a man and they were never arrested furthermore they stayed there for weeks and the city actually took the property from the owner and gave it to the anarchists to live there! SO as a recap we have free speech zones because the government hired hooligans to break windows start fires and throw bricks then gave them a building they took over and didnt arrest any of them even though many people videotaped all this happening.

So anyway Glenn beck Works for People like the Bilderbergers, Trilatteral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations. The same people that make up most of obamas cabinet the same people that was in bush's cabinet the same people that run the media,businesses, banks, industry, millitary. And the same people that go to those world trade meetings in seattle that setup that false attacak that gave us all free speech zones.

So in short Glenn Beck is in fact basically a (don't quote me on this but you get the idea) evil CIA FBI Informant BIG FAKE.

ANYONE in the media that is spinning the economy and its problems as anything other than the Federal Reserve and the Banking laws created since 1913 and the people using all that to rule the world. There is no free media left.

[BigBallinStalin]

There's free media left! It's just on the internets, and hardly ever on TV... :/

The problem is that the US corporatocracy has a very firm grip on the mainstream media's balls.

[Phatscotty]

the point is not "whether we will still be okay". The point is keeping it strong and leaving something stable for our children.

Are you ok with selling them short?

"It's not going to affect my children! GUFFAH HAH HAH!" --Rich fat businessman, who then taps his cigar ashes into your front shirt pocket.

that was directed at the poster before you stalin fyi. to the guy...."even if everything gets shitty, USA will still be best place to live...."

[Phatscotty]

I just want to say I believe in the constitution and I am aware of things going on today such as the laws that made the federal reserve and the money system tax codes income tax and many more things Glenn Beck talks about. He is a retard and a fools everyone into thinking he is uncovering things and fighting. Well when if comes to real important things for example the FEMA camps he did a segment acting all serious about fema camps and he was doing research etc. and he used an example that is on youtube that has been proven to be an amtrak repair station and said voila no such things. when anyone that looks into it can clearly see that out new laws post 911 include continuity of government and such things like fema camps. He dint mention that they were used in Seattle and the so called anarchists that started all the stuff there that got us lovely new laws like Free speech zones etc. well these anarchists walked and took over a building owned by a man and they were never arrested furthermore they stayed there for weeks and the city actually took the property from the owner and gave it to the anarchists to live there! SO as a recap we have free speech zones because the government hired hooligans to break windows start fires and throw bricks then gave them a building they took over and didnt arrest any of them even though many people videotaped all this happening.

So anyway Glenn beck Works for People like the Bilderbergers, Trilatteral Commission, and the Council on Foreign Relations. The same people that make up most of obamas cabinet the same people that was in bush's cabinet the same people that run the media,businesses, banks, industry, millitary. And the same people that go to those world trade meetings in seattle that setup that false attacak that gave us all free speech zones.

So in short Glenn Beck is in fact basically a (don't quote me on this but you get the idea) evil CIA FBI Informant BIG FAKE.

ANYONE in the media that is spinning the economy and its problems as anything other than the Federal Reserve and the Banking laws created since 1913 and the people using all that to rule the world. There is no free media left.

dunno where Beck comes into this. But I noticed something similar about him. Yes the fed reserve and tax stuff had been around for a long time, but I was shocked to see some fatty fat fat guy on TV talking about it. He never really stayed on it, but that is because it is such a huge and ingrained problem that so many other things need to be done first before we can get rid of the fed. You keep talking about it and people lose hope because it seems impossible. At least he is trying. remember, I assume he is trying to do this and keep his job.

on the tri-lats and bilders, can you show me some information? I am interested to see, but please don't send alex jones stuff, cuz I already know where he stands (I dont think jones goes far enough to legitimatly dicredit beck, and he may not want to) and can tell you have either just read "creature from jekyl island" or seen the alex jones show.

[thegreekdog]

Okay, so I've thought about this since my last few tirades. Basically, it's come to this. There have never been any great awakenings in the U.S. because the people in power in the US are the same type of people who were in power in 1776, in 1861, in 1963, etc. So, on the one hand, the same type of people are in power and thus nothing is going to change substantially for the "average man and woman." On the other hand, I'm doing pretty okay, and so are most people in the U.S., so maybe the people in power are doing an okay job, at least in the U.S.

In any event, I think my tirade-laden posts might be at an end.

Although, it's interesting, the internet must be a horrible phenomenon for the "people in power."

thegreekdog, conspiracy theorist... who'd have thunk?

[Phatscotty]

Okay, so I've thought about this since my last few tirades. Basically, it's come to this. There have never been any great awakenings in the U.S. because the people in power in the US are the same type of people who were in power in 1776, in 1861, in 1963, etc. So, on the one hand, the same type of people are in power and thus nothing is going to change substantially for the "average man and woman." On the other hand, I'm doing pretty okay, and so are most people in the U.S., so maybe the people in power are doing an okay job, at least in the U.S.

In any event, I think my tirade-laden posts might be at an end.

Although, it's interesting, the internet must be a horrible phenomenon for the "people in power."

thegreekdog, conspiracy theorist... who'd have thunk?

1830-1850 (abolish the central bank/abolish slavery movement/popular vote instituted)

It was an era, but it took an awakening to introduce