WWII-Stalingrad [QUENCHED]

[cairnswk]

Version 28.

This is my solution to the Artillery Bombardment.
DTF and BTF have been excluded from the legend, because these can be spelled out in the xml....
It's been replaced with instructions on how the artillery range is 2& 3 Territory distace only.
EDIT: this has now been replaced with lt_oddball's suggestion but not red line.

[jefjef]

I would make arty bombardment at least 4 terts if your gonna limit range. Need them to get across the river to be realistic & for game play.

[cairnswk]

I would make arty bombardment at least 4 terts if your gonna limit range. Need them to get across the river to be realistic & for game play.

jefjef, thanks for comment....that was a late night attempt, that upon reveiw this morning seems dicky coz players are gonna have a hard time working out what is 2 & 3 terts away.
so i have reverted to lt_oddballs idea and found an acceptable colour of prepresenting that on the map with those instructions below.
Hope this works better. PLease refresh your browser to see the changes above.

[ender516]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

[cairnswk]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

That's the general idea, perhaps not the exact correct wording....suggestions?

[ender516]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

That's the general idea, perhaps not the exact correct wording....suggestions?

No, that wording conveys that meaning just fine, but I don't think that was what lt_oddball said, so I was confused. Quoting, emphasis mine:

I'll settle for just one red dotted line creating two sectors in which the arty in one sector can only bombard the enemy inf, arty, aa in its own sector (but not river R points).

[jefjef]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

That's the general idea, perhaps not the exact correct wording....suggestions?

Word it: Artillery bombards opposite side of demarcation line.

and make sure the arty point the proper direction.

and switch the 64th 3rd div inf & arty positions so that arty doesn't look like it can bombard the adjacent tert.

[thenobodies80]

Poll Result

=========================================================

Should the AA Batteries remain on the map?


AA Batteries to remain on the map - Yes?......14.......38%

AA Batteries to remain on the map - No?.....5......14%

If AA Batteries stay on the map, should they have ability to bombard tanks as per some historical references - Yes?....12.....32%

If AA Batteries stay on the map, should they have ability to bombard tanks as per some historical references - No?......6......16%

=========================================================

Total votes : 37

[cairnswk]

^^ Thanks thenobodies80 ^^

Clearly the poll results are in favour of retaining the Aa Batteries with abaility to bombard the tanks.

[cairnswk]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

That's the general idea, perhaps not the exact correct wording....suggestions?

Word it: Artillery bombards opposite side of demarcation line.

and make sure the arty point the proper direction.

and switch the 64th 3rd div inf & arty positions so that arty doesn't look like it can bombard the adjacent tert.

Done, jefjef, please f5 to view changes in map above.

[jefjef]

Can you use more brilliant distinct colors for the snipers? Make em stand out better.

[cairnswk]

Can you use more brilliant distinct colors for the snipers? Make em stand out better.

jefjef...f5 please.....is tht any better?

[jefjef]

That eliminates some sniper confusion. Nice.

The Demarcation line pretty well hides the Lazur rubble. Don't know if ya can do much about it though. Lighten the shade perhaps.

[cairnswk]

That eliminates some sniper confusion. Nice.

Good.

The Demarcation line pretty well hides the Lazur rubble. Don't know if ya can do much about it though. Lighten the shade perhaps.

Now the demarcation line...i've been thinking about that one....
to me it is strange that is runs east-west (for gameplay) rather than north-south (for real battle).
For instance, it could run through teh middle of the city, 1 tert back from water's edge.

[jefjef]

I'm not sure where the demarcation came from. But you could use the river. Looks like 3 cannon on each side.

I also like arty bombarding any where on the map (non-adjacent) That would make them oh so desirable.

[cairnswk]

.....
I'll settle for just one red dotted line creating two sectors in which the arty in one sector can only bombard the enemy inf, arty, aa in its own sector (but not river R points).
....thick - - - - - - red Dotted Line: between Panz Div and Gorodische..continue between Gorodische and R13th, mamayev continue between Lazur and Refinery..over the river between 62nd 2nd and 1st div..continue between 62nd bonus and Russ 64th..
...in the river there is space (near Refinery) to write in red "sector 1" | "sector 2"
In legend for bombardments for the arty fit in "in its own sector" (tight space though)

I'm not sure where the demarcation came from. But you could use the river. Looks like 3 cannon on each side.

lt_oddball is where it came from, and it's not a bad idea but rather good.... but i''m wondering if shouldn't run through the centre of the city from Rynok to Kuporosnoya. This is likely to create more of a German v Russian feel i think.

I also like arty bombarding any where on the map (non-adjacent) That would make them oh so desirable.

Mmmm, but doesn't that make it simply too much for the map?

[jefjef]

That would make it almost a like war. A freakin blood bath. STALINGRAD. Can you think of any other map that could come close to comparing?

Could go further with it. Give Armor 2 tert attack and advance range.

You could put demarcation along german side of the river.

Just some random thoughts.

[lt_oddball]

Word it: Artillery bombards opposite side of demarcation line.

and make sure the arty point the proper direction.

Been away couple of days..

Funny to see a different interpretation of what I had in mind...

I wanted the guns on the left sector to bombard only in the left sector (own bank and over the river) and the right sector only there.
(as: slugging battle; arty from east bank bombard west bank all the time for weeks & vice versa..diagonal bombardment too unreliable (no good spotting)..and no need/time for bombardment "transversely" on the same riverbank..as troops and tanks would close in "faster"(as in matter of days) )
Game advantage : .if you are in top left and a nasty player in bottom left (over the river) bombards you all the time , you have a means of sending troops over the demarcation line and advance towards the river gradually..

At first I thought with this setting there is no difference except the 90 degree rotation..but there is:
You allow diagonal map bombardment (e.g.Chulkov 62nd to Goemark stat...and Art A to General Zhukov)..

Is there support for change/correction ?

[jefjef]

I'm a little confused by the wording of the new legend: "other side of demarkation line". Does this mean the artillery can only hit targets far away, across the line, and not those close in the gun?

That's the general idea, perhaps not the exact correct wording....suggestions?

Well Mr oddball. Not sure Why you used my post. You will find it came after these posts. I'm guessing cairns didn't understand your thoughts.

Now that you've expressed them that would fix his german vs russian vision and the line as it is should work.

But back to the hidden rubble issue at Lazur.

[isaiah40]

I'd say runt the demarcation line north south like it was in RL. Of course if that doesn't make the game play any better or if it makes the game play worse than by all means keep it east - west. Just my highly devalued two cents worth!

[cairnswk]

Word it: Artillery bombards opposite side of demarcation line.

and make sure the arty point the proper direction.

Been away couple of days..

Funny to see a different interpretation of what I had in mind...

I wanted the guns on the left sector to bombard only in the left sector (own bank and over the river) and the right sector only there.
(as: slugging battle; arty from east bank bombard west bank all the time for weeks & vice versa..diagonal bombardment too unreliable (no good spotting)..and no need/time for bombardment "transversely" on the same riverbank..as troops and tanks would close in "faster"(as in matter of days) )
Game advantage : .if you are in top left and a nasty player in bottom left (over the river) bombards you all the time , you have a means of sending troops over the demarcation line and advance towards the river gradually..

At first I thought with this setting there is no difference except the 90 degree rotation..but there is:
You allow diagonal map bombardment (e.g.Chulkov 62nd to Goemark stat...and Art A to General Zhukov)..

Is there support for change/correction ?

Ah, now i understand what you want.
Yes i support the basics of that, but as others have also stated below....

...
You could put demarcation along german side of the river.....

I'd say runt the demarcation line north south like it was in RL. Of course if that doesn't make the game play any better or if it makes the game play worse than by all means keep it east - west. Just my highly devalued two cents worth!

....i'd like to see a demarcation line run parallel to the river but through the city center....

Example below.....what are wveryone's thoughts ?

jefjef....i hope i've fixed that rubble issue.

[lt_oddball]

....i'd like to see a demarcation line run parallel to the river but through the city center....

Example below.....what are wveryone's thoughts ?

also good, as long as the arty in their own sector can only bombard their targets in the same sector it is fine by me

[cairnswk]

....i'd like to see a demarcation line run parallel to the river but through the city center....

Example below.....what are wveryone's thoughts ?

also good, as long as the arty in their own sector can only bombard their targets in the same sector it is fine by me

Did you see what i had done on the map?

[jefjef]

....i'd like to see a demarcation line run parallel to the river but through the city center....

Example below.....what are wveryone's thoughts ?

also good, as long as the arty in their own sector can only bombard their targets in the same sector it is fine by me

Did you see what i had done on the map?

I agree with Cairns vision.

BTW the sector thingy at meat combine area kinda blocks it & mameyev. Perhaps do it transparently.

I see arty & AA in same regions. I'd not give a region both. At least not in a edge of map region.

Number of arty sites. Knock 2 off or add two. imo.

[captainwalrus]

I think some bonuses can be reconsidered, just because of new bombardments or whatever. The city should be worth much more, since it can be attacked by snipers, artillery, infantry, and various planes and tanks and other instruments of destruction.
There are a few others, like Rynok, Kuporosonya, Chulkov, and some of the other ones along the river which can probably be pushed up one or so.