Unannounced Family members.....

[AAFitz]

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=146867#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=112209#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=89249#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=78856#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=71339#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=175173#gmtop
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=175171#gmtop

do you guys have any examples of games where two of you were in a standard game and you lost?

a few of these chats seem like contrived arguments to me...i could be wrong...but it would be helpful to see at least half as many games where someone in the family didnt win

if there are way more games, than these dont matter as much if at all, but if these are the only ones...its safe to say that if someone joins your games that isnt related they will lose....again if there are way more...they dont necessarily mean anything but standing alone they seem to suggest something is happening.....

i know i dont play with any one player where either he or i win every time....it just isnt likely at all...not to say its impossible...but it is unlikely

[LetGodSortThem]

You only flame bk cuse you have no other defense...

[b.k. barunt]

And you flame because you have no attack. You put your evidence to a poll and it's not going too good is it? What is it now 8-2? There it is Fitz, you and lgst want to trot out statistics without zeroing in on any behavior in those games. When lgst finally zeroed in on something, his poll shows that the CC membership thought it was bullshit. Maybe you'd like to try your hand at looking foolish? So enough with the superficial statistics - you have yet to examine the game in question. When will that finally be done? Why are you dragging your asses on that?

[LetGodSortThem]

10 is hardly "the CC membership "...besides take away your vote, Paulus, hookshot and the rest of your little group...

[hookshotwillaby]

well Fitz to answer your question here is a list of games (for my part) where i have played with family members where both of us lost. These are the games that Albro and Lgst have neglected to post because it makes their case look bad. This is my main problem with the two of them. They refuse to admit that there really is no PROOF of us cheating in this way. only that they WANT to believe it. and will disregard any evidence to the contrary if that helps them to be right. it seems to me a very childish and immature way to make a point.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=146854
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=107185
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=89395
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=85675
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=85673
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=84133
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=72194

I'd say thats a bit more than half your list.

[b.k. barunt]

Maybe Fitz thinks i show more favoritism to my nephew than my son.

[AAFitz]

well Fitz to answer your question here is a list of games (for my part) where i have played with family members where both of us lost. These are the games that Albro and Lgst have neglected to post because it makes their case look bad. This is my main problem with the two of them. They refuse to admit that there really is no PROOF of us cheating in this way. only that they WANT to believe it. and will disregard any evidence to the contrary if that helps them to be right. it seems to me a very childish and immature way to make a point.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=146854
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=107185
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=89395
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=85675
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=85673
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=84133
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=72194

I'd say thats a bit more than half your list.

thanks, you can understand why that would be fishy if one of you always won in every game you played together...i doubt youd want to play in a standard game with two family members if in every game they play one of them wins....

and there never will be any proof...there is no way to prove it....there almost never is...one small move in a game can swing the balance...and no one would ever know for sure if that was for the express reason of throwing it, or winning it.....you guys disagree and thats how its gonna be for the next thousand years

they felt it was cheating....you do not....others will...others wont...

my main point through this whole thing is it cant possibly be worth this much trouble when you can play private games and doubles or trips together....

[AAFitz]

Maybe Fitz thinks i show more favoritism to my nephew than my son.

this is a little vague, but if you do, some would consider it cheating

i just wanted to see if one of you guys won every game you played together

if you did...there would be no question there was something unfair about it

im very glad you did not..

[AAFitz]

2006-10-25 16:40:00 - katie06: wow...its too quiet
2006-10-25 18:32:08 - hookshotwillaby: yeah that definitely looks like a secret alliance
2006-10-25 18:32:21 - hookshotwillaby: between light blue and blue
2006-10-25 18:32:32 - hookshotwillaby: it gets more and more obvious every time
2006-10-25 18:32:44 - hookshotwillaby: i'm glad Im not in this anymore. i'd be pissed
2006-10-26 05:52:12 - katie06: alright, but there's no alliance there
2006-10-26 21:56:20 - hookshotwillaby: its pretty convenient that all blue has had to do this entire time is simply attack that one little army on Lamma Island to keep light blue from holding an entire region. but forsome reason he has refused to attack this person
2006-10-26 21:56:59 - hookshotwillaby: i'm sure it will be easy to decide between your two screen names, kramsey which one you would like to win this game once Paulus is out
2006-10-26 21:57:35 - hookshotwillaby: It must be so much easier plying this game when you can have two different colors on the board you little coward
2006-10-27 05:03:09 - kramsey06: dude what the hell. i am not going to sit her and kill my girl until i have elimininated green from the game
2006-10-27 17:21:44 - katie06: screw you hookshotwillaby...just shut up, alright
2006-10-27 17:50:44 - hookshotwillaby: hahaha yep. sounds like the same person to me alright
2006-10-27 17:51:35 - hookshotwillaby: good to see you finally attacked yourself in here. guess it WAS getting a bittoo obvious even for an amateur like you.
2006-10-27 17:52:23 - hookshotwillaby: amateur cheater that is. you're a worse cheater then you are a player and an even worse liar. go find something else to do with your time you little pantywaste
2006-10-27 19:13:51 - katie06: umm, actually, its two different people....nice try though
2006-10-27 19:51:53 - katie06: okay...so, its ok for you to play with your "cousin" or whatever he is, but its not ok for us to play together...how does that work...so, should i call you names, and file a report, and all that crap. no, that would be immature, wouldn't it?
2006-10-27 19:52:48 - katie06: look, i made a point without calling anyone names...amazing theory isn't, being polite?
2006-10-27 20:00:34 - katie06: oh, and you manage to accuse anyone who doesn't attack how you think they should attack as having a secret allience
2006-10-27 20:53:15 - hookshotwillaby: i guess its also easier to win an argument when you can argue as two different people too. nice to hear from you again kramsey
2006-10-28 08:53:56 - katie06: i don't care what you say, we're not two people...i'm a girl, he's a guy...we're dating
2006-10-28 12:20:12 - hookshotwillaby: sounds like a bad reality tv show
2006-10-29 07:41:44 - hookshotwillaby: betcha five bucks when Paulus is dead little "girlfriend" is gonna go head and step aside and let big boy kramsey win this one for his rank score.
2006-10-29 19:52:25 - katie06: ha ha ha, no
2006-10-31 18:04:14 - hookshotwillaby: wow what a surprise. i wish somebody owed me five bucks
2006-11-01 16:33:20 - katie06: if i wanted him to win, why would i cash my cards, and try to hold onto that continent?

looks like one of those you lost you suspected that the two people that knew each other were playing together...lol

[b.k. barunt]

And this proves? Fitz you seem to have taken over lgst's penchant for supplying irrelevant information. And you won't reply to the relevant questions. WHY WON'T YOU EXAMINE THE LOG OF THE GAME IN QUESTION? HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PROPERLY INVESTIGATE A GAME? IS THIS ALL YOU SITE MANAGERS ARE CAPABLE OF, USELESS CARPING BACK AND FORTH? END THIS FARCE WITH A VERDICT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

[AAFitz]

And this proves? Fitz you seem to have taken over lgst's penchant for supplying irrelevant information. And you won't reply to the relevant questions. WHY WON'T YOU EXAMINE THE LOG OF THE GAME IN QUESTION? HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE TO PROPERLY INVESTIGATE A GAME? IS THIS ALL YOU SITE MANAGERS ARE CAPABLE OF, USELESS CARPING BACK AND FORTH? END THIS FARCE WITH A VERDICT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

again, im not a moderator, manager, involved in any way with cc except that i play a lot...and post too much....i posted this when i realize you thought i was...if i was a moderator, i would not be wasting my time with this....this is for entertainment value only

further this is not proof of anything...im not saying you were cheating....i just found it funny...and it really is

you have one family member thats been accused of working together with another accusing someone who knows another player of working together in a game that was used in an example of a game you used to prove you guys arent working together in games....pretty funny

you cannot possibly have read all of my posts, and thats fine because i have not read all of yours...but i have responded to you on this multiple times...the game is decided by small moves, sometimes one...it is not possible to prove anything...i could throw a game and youd never know it....but if me or one other person wins every game that im in with him, that is basis for investigation...

I never said you guys were cheating....i was glad there were examples that you guys dont win every singles game you were in together, because if one of you won every game that would be proof enough, and you guys might be in some trouble...

you guys obviously like the game. why you dont just play private games i have no idea, but thats your call

[michaelthefinn]

well honestly sometimes i really dont want to announce im playong with my brother becase, you see, i hace played games where i do announce this and afterwards when the third player used this as an excuse and accused us of allying when he layed a crappy game

[AAFitz]

well honestly sometimes i really dont want to announce im playong with my brother becase, you see, i hace played games where i do announce this and afterwards when the third player used this as an excuse and accused us of allying when he layed a crappy game

it really is a tricky subject....i actually imagine more friends would cheat than family members, its just that others dont always see it that way....

you really are better off not announcing it, but you just have to make sure you dont favor your relative or you may be accused....


in one game its fine of course, it is absolutely necessary to favor someone in every game...you cant attack them all...but if someone does it in most of the games...it really isnt fair

[previsualconsent]

Its like no one here has every played the board game with a large group of people where you don't know everyone.

If your new to that group of people you won't know tendencies of people not attacking eachother or who a certain person is out to get. This has nothing really to do with family members, but you can't always know if people you are playing with have played with eachother before.

lets say one got beat really badly, might try as hard as he can just to get revenge, it happens. or if they've had good relations in past games they'll cool it more around each other. This is just reading your oppenents and getting to know the community.

yea thats my little rant for tonight, slightly off topic but -was ev

oh and if i played my brother, i might be more inclined to try to beat him not otherwise

[b.k. barunt]

exactly.

[SirSebstar]

exactly what BK?
I read all you have to say. I read what your family has to say.
I think you hold CC in too high a regard. Meaning it is not not-guilty until proven otherwise. It is more like, you are not ignored untill I have doubts about your playing capabilities, or because you are simple a not enjoyable person. And for me your rantings have proven to be anything but enjoyable.

In the netherlands there is a saying, "Als je geschoren wordt, moet je stil zitten". I am not sure how to translate it correctly. it basicly comes down to something like you should not make the boat rock in high seas (or something)

You are suspected of cheating, fine. You shoot the messenger once. fine. You keep personal attacks for things that in itself cast doubt. Well you can try, but its not helping you at all. There is no direct evidence for cheating as far as i can tell. But you dont get away with murder just because the police cant find the body. There is enough reason for me, based on your games, post and reactions to know enough. I would not enjoy playing with you.
good bye and welcome to my ignore list

[AAFitz]

exactly.

did i answer your questions?

this isnt personal...you made personal attacks that i posted about....almost everything else was in response to your asking me to clarify my opinions

i really do wish this didnt get so heated, which is why i tried to slow it down in the beginning...but they had a perfectly plausible reason for suspecting possible cheating....

to me it seems you lost enough games that I dont think you were....certainly not blatently...others will disagree, but had you just explained your case without losing your temper and spending as much time making fun of spelling errors as you did on assuring us there was no cheating, im pretty sure this could have been dropped a while ago

[b.k. barunt]

Fitz i'm not used to being disrespected - especially in such a catty, snippy matter. I was personally attacked and i took it personal. The fact that my nephew was also targetted put me out of the box. It's easy for someone like you to watch these situations and judge them from a point of safety. Some people get vicarious thrills from the struggles of others, and some struggle themselves.

[AAFitz]

lol....slow season...in the spring ill vanish...

and lgsto, just doesnt like cheaters so he puts time into finding them...im not saying hes always right...no one is always right...i know im not...

i cant offer too much more here...good luck with it

[b.k. barunt]

I have checked out lgst's posts and i disagree. It is not a matter of his not liking cheaters. He loves to be in the position of judge, and he is a mean spirited little bitch. He is very selective in his presentation of the "facts", and he enjoys the hell out of being catty with the accused. I will be monitoring his actions here in the future.

[LetGodSortThem]

Fitz i'm not used to being disrespected - especially in such a catty, snippy matter. I was personally attacked and i took it personal. The fact that my nephew was also targetted put me out of the box. It's easy for someone like you to watch these situations and judge them from a point of safety. Some people get vicarious thrills from the struggles of others, and some struggle themselves.

NO I have been cheated, magaman [Busted] majorkinky [Busted] demonvillie [Busted] and others but I see you select not to mention that. Defending one self is fine. not being man enough to tell people your family, before a game...suits you well...And you try way too hard...

Ya and you read all 250+ posts by me........

[Paulus]

AAFitz. I noticed you posted info from game 85675. I actually posted a thread on that game because I suspected that there was cheating going. I did not, however, rush to the conclusion that they were cheating. I posted in the appropriate forum and asked for it to looked at by the mods. I was then given confirmation that the two in that game were multis. Anyway, I just thought you might like to know that.

[Paulus]

SirSebstar. Sure, "you dont get away with murder just because the police cant find the body". However, our point is that there is no "body" because there was no "murder". No wrong was committed by me or any of my relatives on this site. I think that if you had read all of my posts concerning this issue in this thread and in the one started by AlbroShlo, which came before this one, you would agree more with me. I ask that you do not think us guilty simply because of my uncle's choice of words, but because of the logical points and the information that have been presented.

[AAFitz]

AAFitz. I noticed you posted info from game 85675. I actually posted a thread on that game because I suspected that there was cheating going. I did not, however, rush to the conclusion that they were cheating. I posted in the appropriate forum and asked for it to looked at by the mods. I was then given confirmation that the two in that game were multis. Anyway, I just thought you might like to know that.

yeah, i shouldnt have posted that, but the irony was too funny....and i dont think anyone on here has any love for kramsey...

and i never accused you guys of cheating....however, i do think there was enough to suspect it. family members in many games winning many does seem suspicious, but luckilly you lost several too including the one the multi beat you at....unfortunately you will never be able to convince everyone that reads this that you guys didnt favor each other....even if there wasnt one move in one game that favored a relative....its quite simply human nature, and its why most family members dont enter singles together...I suppose its a shame, but thats really what it comes down to in the end

[AlbroShlo]

This is in response to hookshot's post where he says "These are the games that Albro and Lgst have neglected to post because it makes their case look bad. "

Well i looked at those games and all i see is the fact that in the first game you attacked each other once the entire game! and the rest are just as bad.

next time bring in evidence that doesn't make you guys look worse than you allready do.

hookshot says,
"They refuse to admit that there really is no PROOF of us cheating in this way."

well this way or the other way it's still cheating.from what you say it seems like you are cheating and we have yet to catch you. Every lie is 90% truth. For me the proof lies in the fact that members of your family do not attack each other and when you guys win it's one who takes out the other.

If it looks like a duck......