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Clan League: Season 2 (2009-2010) - Info, Discussion, Q&A

Finished challenges between two competitive clans.

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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:44 pm

A Message from the members of clan TOFU

To the organisers of the CLA (JP and Marval) and to all the correspondents in this forum, may we express our thanks for the time and support you have given this recent development and for considering our clan in a play-off for immediate promotion. We have given it a lot of thought and, given we received the news only 24 hours ago, have written a considerable amount of correspondence in the short time frame we've had. We would like to answer as follows:

To JP
We all appreciate what a tough role you have taken on in administering this league and that no matter what arrangement you had to make, someone somewhere was not going to be happy. Your decision to pit the two clear favourites in Division 2 against each other to fill the vacancy left by Sky Force was certainly the most logical one you could reach, so we applaud you for that. On the other hand it may easily be argued that it's not the fairest; such argument may easily be levelled by any of the clans in Div.2 and in particular Nemesis, who we appreciate had been lobbying for a long time to get into the top division based on a recent string of victorious challenges. Nevertheless the system you had in place when you assigned teams to their respective divisions at the time was the most judicious one you could conceive. Your reasoning to Nemesis was fair and just and really they should have just swallowed their pride and accepted their place in Division 2 in accordance with the rules and the seeding system that you implemented. We did.

I wouldn't take too long in deciding actions as neither clans have sent me their rosters and there is only about 24 hours until the deadline. For clans that want into Div1 so badly, neither has sent me a roster yet which is slightly disappointing given the maps being used are quite standard


You gave us 48 hours. Rather than express disappointment about having not received a roster just 18 hours after I received your PM how about giving the addressees the allotted time to give you their reply. Then you can be disappointed ;) And for the record, TOFU has never sought to be moved up from Div.2 to Div.1 so please don't tar us with the same brush, thank you.

To Nemesis
We have a great deal of respect for (the playing abilities of) your members. HardAttack is by far one of the most competent players I personally have had the privilege to play with (and against) on this site. You're also a friendly bunch - the makings of a tight-knit clan. But really....guys....what a lot of commotion you are making over this. If you look at it honestly then you should appreciate it for the opportunity it is, not as some burden or unfair ruling. Here are a few truths:
- You were ranked as a Division 2 team and, by virtue of being in Div.2, had obviously accepted that fact and were prepared to play in the League.
- You have just been afforded an opportunity to gain promotion, yet are unhappy about it (?)
- You obviously feel you might lose the play-off to TOFU, in which case I ask you "Which team deserves to be in a higher division?" (I guess coming on the back of a 16-5 loss to us in Lindax's TLO league tourney we can see your apprehension :lol: )
- Rather than show gratitude to the administrators for giving you a shot at Division 1 you come on the forum and whine about it.
- Nemesis and TOFU are both 'victims' of the same circumstance, i.e. too late at the start of the competition to earn a place in the top flight. The organisers have made a ruling, as is their right, to determine that the top two seeds in Division 2 based on recent results may challenge each other for a fast-track into Division 1. It's not a rule change as you imply in your posts - it's a new ruling entirely and as such there is no precedent for you to say "This is unfair".
- freakns talks about our challenge not being completed (even though we have already won it) and then in his 2nd post argues that same point, only this time in support of his own challenge being recognized despite that not being 'official' either. A bit contradictory methinks.

Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2. It is merely one season we are talking about, and if we are worthy of our reputation then we shall gain promotion in the traditional manner. And I deliberately choose the word 'reputation', as for any member of TOFU that is a far more honourable badge to wear - one that we shall do so with pride in every encounter we make in this League.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.

Yours in friendship,

T.O.F.U.

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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Incandenza on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:54 pm

=D> =D> =D>

That's just terrific right there.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby soundman on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:04 pm

I'm liking this TOFU clan more and more. :) Good sportsmanship guys! =D>
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby jpcloet on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:06 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.


Nemesis will be happy to hear that hopefully. Will make some of managing the league a little easier this way, and yes, Nemesis will now be put into Div1B.

Couldn't say that in less than half a page? :lol:
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Blitzaholic on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:13 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:A Message from the members of clan TOFU

To the organisers of the CLA (JP and Marval) and to all the correspondents in this forum, may we express our thanks for the time and support you have given this recent development and for considering our clan in a play-off for immediate promotion. We have given it a lot of thought and, given we received the news only 24 hours ago, have written a considerable amount of correspondence in the short time frame we've had. We would like to answer as follows:

To JP
We all appreciate what a tough role you have taken on in administering this league and that no matter what arrangement you had to make, someone somewhere was not going to be happy. Your decision to pit the two clear favourites in Division 2 against each other to fill the vacancy left by Sky Force was certainly the most logical one you could reach, so we applaud you for that. On the other hand it may easily be argued that it's not the fairest; such argument may easily be levelled by any of the clans in Div.2 and in particular Nemesis, who we appreciate had been lobbying for a long time to get into the top division based on a recent string of victorious challenges. Nevertheless the system you had in place when you assigned teams to their respective divisions at the time was the most judicious one you could conceive. Your reasoning to Nemesis was fair and just and really they should have just swallowed their pride and accepted their place in Division 2 in accordance with the rules and the seeding system that you implemented. We did.

I wouldn't take too long in deciding actions as neither clans have sent me their rosters and there is only about 24 hours until the deadline. For clans that want into Div1 so badly, neither has sent me a roster yet which is slightly disappointing given the maps being used are quite standard


You gave us 48 hours. Rather than express disappointment about having not received a roster just 18 hours after I received your PM how about giving the addressees the allotted time to give you their reply. Then you can be disappointed ;) And for the record, TOFU has never sought to be moved up from Div.2 to Div.1 so please don't tar us with the same brush, thank you.

To Nemesis
We have a great deal of respect for (the playing abilities of) your members. HardAttack is by far one of the most competent players I personally have had the privilege to play with (and against) on this site. You're also a friendly bunch - the makings of a tight-knit clan. But really....guys....what a lot of commotion you are making over this. If you look at it honestly then you should appreciate it for the opportunity it is, not as some burden or unfair ruling. Here are a few truths:
- You were ranked as a Division 2 team and, by virtue of being in Div.2, had obviously accepted that fact and were prepared to play in the League.
- You have just been afforded an opportunity to gain promotion, yet are unhappy about it (?)
- You obviously feel you might lose the play-off to TOFU, in which case I ask you "Which team deserves to be in a higher division?" (I guess coming on the back of a 16-5 loss to us in Lindax's TLO league tourney we can see your apprehension :lol: )
- Rather than show gratitude to the administrators for giving you a shot at Division 1 you come on the forum and whine about it.
- Nemesis and TOFU are both 'victims' of the same circumstance, i.e. too late at the start of the competition to earn a place in the top flight. The organisers have made a ruling, as is their right, to determine that the top two seeds in Division 2 based on recent results may challenge each other for a fast-track into Division 1. It's not a rule change as you imply in your posts - it's a new ruling entirely and as such there is no precedent for you to say "This is unfair".
- freakns talks about our challenge not being completed (even though we have already won it) and then in his 2nd post argues that same point, only this time in support of his own challenge being recognized despite that not being 'official' either. A bit contradictory methinks.

Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2. It is merely one season we are talking about, and if we are worthy of our reputation then we shall gain promotion in the traditional manner. And I deliberately choose the word 'reputation', as for any member of TOFU that is a far more honourable badge to wear - one that we shall do so with pride in every encounter we make in this League.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.

Yours in friendship,

T.O.F.U.

In Odd We Trust



CoF is a class act, a super player, but even a better person. I salute you CoF. Now join Thota, lol
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:22 pm

CoF is a class act, a super player, but even a better person. I salute you CoF. Now join Thota, lol


lol thanks buddy. I'm merely good at the English language and the odd game of Risk!Ā© The decision was made unanimously by all the guys in TOFU.

Now, how about you come and join us (and bring Incandenza with you) ;)

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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby pmchugh on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:25 pm

@ TOFU In my opinion (not nemesis) I think you misunderstood us.

At first we were annoyed at being placed in division 2 as we were better than some of the clans there and jp had led onto us that we would be given a place in division 1. After a while we conceeded and decided to play in divison 2.

But the issue now is not to do with the abilites of either clan or who is better or that we want in division 1. We don't care about getting in divison one otherwise we wouldn't argue with it and we would just play you and take our chances.

To me it's the way it has been done is unfair to clans in divison 2 and the fact that jp has used completely different factors in choosing clans from the first time. First off he cared about completed challenges and ladder rankings, now he seems to be taking into account a clan who is not on the ladder and has no completed challenges. I don't mean any offense to you jp, just that sometimes I think you like to use your own opinion instead of rules etc. which were supposedly why we were't in div 1 in the first place.

I repeat we don't care about being in divison 2 anymore thats not the issue its the way its all been handled.

And yes we are being melodrmatic abut a game but try telling that to HA :lol:

jpcloet wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.


Nemesis will be happy to hear that hopefully. Will make some of managing the league a little easier this way, and yes, Nemesis will now be put into Div1B.

Couldn't say that in less than half a page? :lol:


I wouldn't be so sure just yet.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby lord voldemort on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:55 pm

tofu are good blokes....nicest guy's around!!
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby pmchugh on Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:56 pm

lord voldemort wrote:tofu are good blokes....nicest guy's around!!


Forgot to agree with this, it was nice of them.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby andy_is_awesome on Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:19 pm

Wow! That's a lot to catch up on in one day!

...nice job Sky Force :lol:

Anyway, Lets put written rules into season 3 for these kinds of situations and in the mean time... GAME ON!
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Kotaro on Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:23 pm

Jesus people, what is all this crap? Less arguing, where the heck are my games to beat ass in!
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby HardAttack on Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:16 am

I am reading this stuff right now. I find TOFU's desicion quite fair, honourable, a man stuff =D> =D> =D>
Our objections so far never got to do with TOFU, we never meant to insult our friends and TOFU itself.
Chariot is without a doubt great personaility and once more again he prooved himself to be.

But Chariot is missing a few stuff. For example, TLO thing. In nemesis's book, the hisgest and valid name of a challenge is only clan challenges.
All of us has lives, we do not give a tournament equal importance as we do for a clan war.
In clan war ? We have no fear, believe me you all, we have no fear to face any of you. Clan wars are kind of trans motivation all nemesis ppl changes into big warriors and do bloody fine. But tournaments or other kind of challenges, we do not pay equal attentions. Also, i dont need to praise you guys cos not only me but also everyone knows who you are, what you are capable of etc.

Our objection so far has been about the desicions given by jpcloet. It should have been asked to us. We deserved it due to many points.
You my dear CoF, missing a lot of points but i am certain that you are quite busy with your own clan and do not know what is going on here.
You are missing a lot.

Again, we deserved to be in Div1 in the case if one clan got dropped down just in case sky force dropped. It was a promise. It was what we have told 3 weeks ago. Anyway, i may tell more to you CoF if you ask for more.

At this point, i state my appreciations to CoF and TOFU for giving the stake in our hands. Now, guess what, i will do my best to make these 11 games challenge against you. It is right now, after your declining, as a gift, as a courtesy of understanding that Nemesis has, etc etc but not in unfair way. I have not talked with my ppl yet, my feeling and thoughts, again, i am going to try to make this 11 game thing at the point of Nemesis officially won to promote to Div1 after your declining.

Please accept our challenge, win if you can, then move to Div1. No one else will be more glad to see you guys there in Div1 more than me but things should work based on clear rule. This is maybe the most important thingy to stay in minds. Things should work based on definite and clear rules. Things should work objectively but not subjectively as much as possible....

Nemesis saluts you TOFU.
Well Done.
It is very early right now in europe, i will let you guys here after i make several contacts with some of my guys and hopefully now, we will be glad to play 11 games.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Chariot of Fire on Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:43 am

Our objection so far has been about the desicions given by jpcloet. It should have been asked to us. We deserved it due to many points.
You my dear CoF, missing a lot of points but i am certain that you are quite busy with your own clan and do not know what is going on here.
You are missing a lot.
Again, we deserved to be in Div1 in the case if one clan got dropped down just in case sky force dropped. It was a promise. It was what we have told 3 weeks ago.


My dear HardAttack, this is exactly the reason we are withdrawing from the promotion play-off. I read all your protests from the day the new CLA divisions were formed and I know how much being in the 1st Division means to you (and I also feel it's where you belong), so you guys should go up and it's with our blessing.

And a word of advice from an old friend.....don't go pushing to play the 11 game doubles. You guys are a small clan (you may have more members than TOFU, but only nine of your players ever really get involved whereas we share all games out between the 16 of us) and when you move into Div.1B you will have a double week to catch-up on your fixtures, so already your plate is full. I don't think you need to start taking on unnecessary games (and after all, you "don't give tournaments equal importance that you would for a clan war").

Just be grateful to the organizers that they gave you guys the recognition you deserve and let that be an end to this debate.

See you next season :D

Your old friend,

Chariot
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby freakns on Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:05 am

Chariot of Fire wrote:And a word of advice from an old friend.....don't go pushing to play the 11 game doubles. You guys are a small clan (you may have more members than TOFU, but only nine of your players ever really get involved whereas we share all games out between the 16 of us) and when you move into Div.1B you will have a double week to catch-up on your fixtures, so already your plate is full. I don't think you need to start taking on unnecessary games

oh, dont worry about that. i am used to have 100+ games active :lol:

anyhow, i tip my hat to you guys for that honourable move =D> //and i wanted for us to do the same and stay in div 2, leaving one slot in div 1 open this season :) but HA doesnt share my opinion on this one :lol:
but im afraid i was misunderstood, again :D //i need to work on my not HA's impression of english :D
the point i wanted to make is simple. we are all playing a league by rules. rules that we all agreed on and need to follow. and that means one set of rules for entire season. if jp or other organizers feels there is something wrong with it, they might wanna try to change it, but only for next season as for this season rules were applied at least one month before now. so, this is the problem in my book, nothing else.
and i am well aware that you guys are probably stronger clan then Nemesis and that you fully deserve to play in div 1. but, for the sake of argument, lets say some 4th league club in England buys out everything best on football market. and they set up a game against Man UTD. and they beat them, easily. will that club be promoted to premiership even if its clear thats the place where they belong?! thats my point :)
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Stroop on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:19 am

jpcloet wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.


Nemesis will be happy to hear that hopefully. Will make some of managing the league a little easier this way, and yes, Nemesis will now be put into Div1B.

I am happy with the conclusion. I can't say I'm happy with all the drama though...

When will we get LoW's games? We better get started with proving we actually belong in Div1...
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby waseemalim on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:24 am

Stroop wrote:
jpcloet wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.


Nemesis will be happy to hear that hopefully. Will make some of managing the league a little easier this way, and yes, Nemesis will now be put into Div1B.

I am happy with the conclusion. I can't say I'm happy with all the drama though...

When will we get LoW's games? We better get started with proving we actually belong in Div1...



We have the skyforce games all setup and ready to be played. You can join them if you wish.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Stroop on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:44 am

waseemalim wrote:
Stroop wrote:
jpcloet wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:Conclusion
Having weighed-up the pros and cons of this play-off opportunity, we at TOFU have decided to decline the invitation and remain in Division 2.

Our thanks again to JP and MarVal for affording us this opportunity, and our best wishes to Nemesis should they be chosen for immediate promotion to Division 1.


Nemesis will be happy to hear that hopefully. Will make some of managing the league a little easier this way, and yes, Nemesis will now be put into Div1B.

I am happy with the conclusion. I can't say I'm happy with all the drama though...

When will we get LoW's games? We better get started with proving we actually belong in Div1...



We have the skyforce games all setup and ready to be played. You can join them if you wish.

We will, as soon as I get the game numbers etc from jpc.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby jpcloet on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:34 am

I don't have the pw, Marval should send them to you soon. Nemesis likely has about 5-6 days before the games expire, since they were made last week.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby jpcloet on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:43 am

If this had happened half-way through the season, the top clan in Div2 based on the standings would likely have been promoted.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby MarVal on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:52 am

Stroop wrote:We will, as soon as I get the game numbers etc from jpc.

Just sent them to you and HardAttack.

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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby lord voldemort on Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:53 am

jpcloet wrote:If this had happened half-way through the season, the top clan in Div2 based on the standings would likely have been promoted.

i think if it happened halfway through the season then the divs shouldnt be changed at all, should be a bye..then all results regarding those clans should be scrapped.
too complicated if you promote someone halfway through
could be considered unfair to some as well
and unfair for the div 2 team winning and then coming to div 1 and perhaps not doing as well
though there are some good teams in div 2
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby jpcloet on Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:57 am

There are a couple of good discussion to be had. Let's move onto the fun one. See the main clan area.
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Blitzaholic on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:58 am

Game 5543522

Thota wins drawing 1st blood
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby Shatners Bassoon on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:47 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:Game 5543522

Thota wins drawing 1st blood



Here we go again :lol:
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Re: 2009-2010 Clan League

Postby RL_Orange on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:51 am

Game 5543519, Thota wins again ;)
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