WWII-Stalingrad [QUENCHED]

[cairnswk]

Any more punters voting?

[el-presidente]

The oblique fits better, and is still easy to read. I like it much better.

[cairnswk]

The oblique fits better, and is still easy to read. I like it much better.

Excellent, i think so also

[cairnswk]

I was not happy with the colours of this map.
I wanted to give the map a darker flavour and have flame colours from bombing and a whole more war-like colour scheme.
to this end, the background colours are being re-done, and the 1942 font will go in favour of something is much more legible.
Sorry guys.

[porkenbeans]

The diagonal flows much better with the layout of this map.

[jefjef]

Just a historical note. The entire river front on both sides were subjected to intense arial bombardment. Including units trying to cross the river during daylight. (That forced the russians to reinforce mainly at night) How about all river terts & river border terts being subject to arial attack? (sorry if this had already been discussed. Very long thread) Nice work BTW.

[cairnswk]

.... Dzerzhinsky seems to be the accepted spelling.

Entered for next version 20

[cairnswk]

Just a historical note. The entire river front on both sides were subjected to intense arial bombardment. Including units trying to cross the river during daylight. (That forced the russians to reinforce mainly at night) How about all river terts & river border terts being subject to arial attack? (sorry if this had already been discussed. Very long thread) Nice work BTW.

Jefjef...there was several bombs already along the river terts. I've added a couple more and given the bombs some flames so they stand out more on the next version 20.

[cairnswk]

The poll has another 3 days to run....and seems to be going the way of the oblique text.

This is Version 20.
It's a lot darker than then previous version but i think more towards the mood of the battle since everything got destroyed.
1. there's a texture over the land to make it darker
2. the legend is also darker with adjustments to the colours for some things
3. the 1942 font is gone....sorry but it makes things a whole lot easier to read
4. bombs have flames attached and
5. DTF spelling is changed.

Click image to enlarge.

[cairnswk]

.....
1. Hospital can't be attacked, only bombarded. Was this planned?

No, wasn't planned, but is now fixed with infantry placement.

2. Artillery should attack like knights or artillery in waterloo rather than bombard the territory right next to them only. It seems kind of pointless to bombard something next to you. (maybe I am not understanding the instructions, but that is the way it seems to work right now)

OK understand. Can you PM it_oddball and see what he wants to do...he seems to be the player with the most input thus far on this. See if you can't agree on something that would be suitable

3. Why are there 8 Luftwaffe planes and 2 positions to reach them? The only situation I can imagine that more than 2 would ever be used is if it was a team game and someone forted a large stack to German HQ I or II

OK, what else do you suggest?

4. Sniper positions need an autodeploy. They bombard a territory that is almost right next to them. I would only get into one if it was an escalating game and the path was blocked.

Wasn't that to some degree the objective of underground fighting, having the in-the-open fighting positions blocked?

5. Chulkov bonus is very overpowered. +3 for 3 territories? Only two of them are borders and the bonus is in the side of the map.

So what is your suggestion for the bonus?

I'll leave the stuff like bonuses to the main foundry folks, they have a better eye for them than me.

Well, you have an opinion on Chulkov, so please feel free to expand on others.

[cairnswk]

The diagonal flows much better with the layout of this map.

What is your opinion on having ranged attacks by the artillery on this map (like Waterloo)?

[The Neon Peon]

3. Why are there 8 Luftwaffe planes and 2 positions to reach them? The only situation I can imagine that more than 2 would ever be used is if it was a team game and someone forted a large stack to German HQ I or II

OK, what else do you suggest?

I'd suggest reducing the number of planes to 2-4, then freeing up the rest of the space for anything else you want to put in the legend.

5. Chulkov bonus is very overpowered. +3 for 3 territories? Only two of them are borders and the bonus is in the side of the map.

So what is your suggestion for the bonus?

I'd suggest 2 troops.

[cairnswk]

3. Why are there 8 Luftwaffe planes and 2 positions to reach them? The only situation I can imagine that more than 2 would ever be used is if it was a team game and someone forted a large stack to German HQ I or II

OK, what else do you suggest?

I'd suggest reducing the number of planes to 2-4, then freeing up the rest of the space for anything else you want to put in the legend.

This one we all need to talk about because those who have commented and put some time into this map thus far have teneded to go with 8 luftwaffe as being appropriate for the air attacks.

5. Chulkov bonus is very overpowered. +3 for 3 territories? Only two of them are borders and the bonus is in the side of the map.

So what is your suggestion for the bonus?

I'd suggest 2 troops.

This one is OK, i can do that

[cairnswk]

This is Current Version 20.

Click image to enlarge.

[ender516]

.... Dzerzhinsky seems to be the accepted spelling.

Entered for next version 20

Thanks for getting back to this. I see you have fixed it in the legend regarding D. T. F., but left unchanged in the adjacent territory "Dzerzhinsdky N.". I think you will want this finalized before saraith gets started on the XML.

Also, in your underground fighting legend box, you might want to use S1 as the label for the sniper position to be consistent with the Red Square building and edge colour of the example.

Sorry to be picking on decorative stuff when a lot of the discussion seems to be about gameplay (locations bombardable by sniper-fire, bonuses, and what not), but I haven't got enough experience with other maps, particularly involving bombardment, to contribute much in those lines.

[cairnswk]

.... Dzerzhinsky seems to be the accepted spelling.

Entered for next version 20

Thanks for getting back to this. I see you have fixed it in the legend regarding D. T. F., but left unchanged in the adjacent territory "Dzerzhinsdky N.". I think you will want this finalized before saraith gets started on the XML.

Fixed above, please F5.

Also, in your underground fighting legend box, you might want to use S1 as the label for the sniper position to be consistent with the Red Square building and edge colour of the example.

Fixed. thanks.

Sorry to be picking on decorative stuff when a lot of the discussion seems to be about gameplay (locations bombardable by sniper-fire, bonuses, and what not), but I haven't got enough experience with other maps, particularly involving bombardment, to contribute much in those lines.

You're doing fine.

[pamoa]

I love the dark version you made here but...
sorry to say it but regions are now almost impossible to distinguish
specially the city where sniper colour codes are now very prominent
and I don't see any solution but making some of them a bit more clear
you also must make a test with blue armies on such a dark bg

about artillery
maybe saying they can bombard only the other side of the river but not the city
and graphically you still have strange symbols on Russian side and in the legend

[cairnswk]

I love the dark version you made here but...
sorry to say it but regions are now almost impossible to distinguish
specially the city where sniper colour codes are now very prominent
and I don't see any solution but making some of them a bit more clear
you also must make a test with blue armies on such a dark bg

about artillery
maybe saying they can bombard only the other side of the river but not the city
and graphically you still have strange symbols on Russian side and in the legend

You wanna expand on all that a bit and be more specific about what you're talking about, please,
I am not quite picking up what you're saying.

[Teflon Kris]

Hi Cairns, I (and therefore many players) am still unsure about the attack possibilities.

Specifically:

Bombardments
The planes have specific bombardment terits - seems clear (assuming they can bombard City but not Infantry A & B there, orcan they?)

The snipers - can attack the terits with a border corresponding to the building they entered - this is clear but - they can also attack infantry - but which infantry? And 'City'- is that anywhere within the City bonus zone or just the City A & B?

The artillery - can bombard all other artillery and all infantry?

Assaults
Can the terits with flags assault any plane?
The tanks - can they bombard all other tanks and all infantry?
The artillery - can they assault all snipers, planes, tanks, artillery and other infantry?

Or are all assaults adjacent whilst bombardments can be at any distance? In which case, which infantry border the snipers?

Other Assaults
Can L3 assault the planes next to it, or only bombard?

Bonuses
This looks pretty understandable, assuming that All City is just the really dark terits (and doesn't include other areas such as Maneyev Hill)

Cheers

[porkenbeans]

Hey, I do not comment on game play aspects either. Am most interested in the graphics end. On that note, ...a quick observation, for my favorite CC map maker.
The drop shadows used on the various layers, are not in sink with each other. making the shadows from the trees for example, fall contrary to the army men.
I have not spent very much time studding this map yet, but it looks pretty cool. Can't wait to see where this one goes.
Don't really have the time to illustrate my suggestion right now, (as you know I like to do), but With the land being so dark, maybe it would help if the symbols were contrasted to a much lighter tone.
edit- As I look at it some more, I notice that the text is fuzzy, especially on the small map. That is except, the black text used for the airfields. That text is crystal clear. I like the look of that. it doesn't jump out at you like the wht. text does, but yet, it is way more clear. Maybe you would consider using that text style for the rest of the map. You would need to lighten up a couple of the land areas a bit, Then the symbols could be of the contrasting lighter shade. I would like to see what that would look like.

[cairnswk]

....I would like to see what that would look like.

Would you now...
Well feel free to knock your socks off in your own time
You can do graphics also.

[cairnswk]

Hey, I do not comment on game play aspects either. Am most interested in the graphics end. On that note, ...a quick observation, for my favorite CC map maker.
The drop shadows used on the various layers, are not in sink with each other. making the shadows from the trees for example, fall contrary to the army men.
I have not spent very much time studding this map yet, but it looks pretty cool. Can't wait to see where this one goes.
Don't really have the time to illustrate my suggestion right now, (as you know I like to do), but With the land being so dark, maybe it would help if the symbols were contrasted to a much lighter tone.
edit- As I look at it some more, I notice that the text is fuzzy, especially on the small map. That is except, the black text used for the airfields. That text is crystal clear. I like the look of that. it doesn't jump out at you like the wht. text does, but yet, it is way more clear. Maybe you would consider using that text style for the rest of the map. You would need to lighten up a couple of the land areas a bit, Then the symbols could be of the contrasting lighter shade....

Of course, you must remember that text on oblique plane will always look fuzzy and distorted as against text on its normal horizontal plane.
There is also a drop shadow on the white text and no shadow on the black text. That is also a contributing factor.
The drop shadow have not been all sorted out yet.
And yes, i'm sorry but i don't have time either to illustrate everyone suggestions that thye would like to see.

[cairnswk]

Version 21

...
Bombardments
The planes have specific bombardment terits - seems clear (assuming they can bombard City but not Infantry A & B there, orcan they?)
The snipers - can attack the terits with a border corresponding to the building they entered - this is clear but - they can also attack infantry - but which infantry? And 'City'- is that anywhere within the City bonus zone or just the City A & B?
The artillery - can bombard all other artillery and all infantry?
Assaults
Can the terits with flags assault any plane?
The tanks - can they bombard all other tanks and all infantry?
The artillery - can they assault all snipers, planes, tanks, artillery and other infantry?
Or are all assaults adjacent whilst bombardments can be at any distance? In which case, which infantry border the snipers?
Other Assaults
Can L3 assault the planes next to it, or only bombard?
Bonuses
This looks pretty understandable, assuming that All City is just the really dark terits (and doesn't include other areas such as Maneyev Hill)
Cheers

I think the below version addresses all of those issues. As for Mameyev Hill, it has its own bonus and is a different colour so i would think it wasn't included in the City bonus unless stated.

Click image to enlarge.

Next version i will try to sort out shadows, although i am thinking that trees need to disappear. Perhaps i should replace them with barbed wire!

[porkenbeans]

....I would like to see what that would look like.

Would you now...
Well feel free to knock your socks off in your own time
You can do graphics also.

Will do.

[ender516]

Next version i will try to sort out shadows, although i am thinking that trees need to disappear. Perhaps i should replace them with barbed wire!

Good idea. What little I know of WWII in the USSR tells me those trees would all have been cut for lumber or fuel. If barbed wire does not work, consider barricades or piles of rubble, although I am not sure I can picture those being easier to depict that the wire.