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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 8/30 Gameplay p. 13

Postby RedBaron0 on Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:53 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:So that means, sub how many territories or add how many?

I know in 1v1 it the terrs are split into thirds, how does it work with 1v1v1?

If I add 2 more terrs then it should be good right?


Gotta be 3, 2 player and 3 player games split territories the same way, dividing all available territories by 3. If your random drop is from 38 territories, it'll give everyone 12 territories plus 2 extra neutrals.

Plenty of space in the south, but a few more territories in the north will be better for balance. Could add to places like:

Northern PA, just above the word "Philadelphia" call it Pocono Mts.
Northern NY, move "Bemis Heights" up and to the left above the army circle and divide the territory in half(or so) left/right call it Albany or West Point
East Maine,(Mass Bay) cut "Massachusetts" down to Mass. and make a territory out of the eastern section of the territory. Call it Machias.

Just my suggestions, I'm sure you've got something in mind too. Last thing, in south Jersey, for a shorter name instead of Burlington, call it Cape May. ;)
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 8/30 Gameplay p. 13

Postby jefjef on Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:11 am

If ya really need to add terts i'm all for georgia being 4 terts. And is it feasable space wise to split Conn.? An additional tert in Penn. would work. Not sure I'd tweek any others. BTW. I play Europe 1914 1 v 1 a lot (my fav) & part of the challenge is the # of start terts. Sure it favors 1st mover but whats wrong with a challenge? I've won plenty of em not moving 1st. I think you are ready to roll with what ya got but it doesn't hurt to increase your tert #s..... BTW I see a couple England flags & a couple French surrender flags. Can ya find a place for the flag of freedom? Maybe make the rules scroll the stars & stripes instead.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 8/30 Gameplay p. 13

Postby iancanton on Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:17 pm

these are good changes apart from the 36 regions and i'm seeing how the ships are supposed to work!

Industrial Helix wrote:If I add 2 more terrs then it should be good right?

3 more or 1 less will be fine.

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 8/30 Gameplay p. 13

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:25 pm

Jefjef, Yeah... I might just make the rules over the american flag... next update.

Alright, I have two new maps for ya. The first is with 3 MORE territories, Halifax NC, Georgetown Del. and St. Mary, Maryland. The other is with 1 LESS territory, that being Roanoke Virginia.

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The one with 3 additional colonies is a bit crowded... Maybe swapping out Gerogetown for something else will do. I'm not sure. Maybe one more in SC instead of delaware?

The one less, meh, if I have to. Let me know what you guys think.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:41 pm

More is better, and yeah Delaware is to crowded an area for another territory. South Carolina or Northern PA for another territory would be best.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby captainwalrus on Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:14 pm

Wow, it has changed a lot since I last checked in. it looks a little crowded but I like that there are more territories. One thing that I dislike is that the territory Appalachia is where the Allegheny area is, but I am glad to see the Allegheny territory re-named.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:24 pm

captainwalrus wrote:Wow, it has changed a lot since I last checked in. it looks a little crowded but I like that there are more territories. One thing that I dislike is that the territory Appalachia is where the Allegheny area is, but I am glad to see the Allegheny territory re-named.


That's right... I think you told me I ought to switch them around before. I was gonna do it but forgot, if I end up keeping the Virginia terr that is known as Allegheny then I will switch them around.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:30 pm

You could probably fudge the thickness of the western Maryland too just so it is a bit wider to accommodate the army circle.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:40 am

Alright, RedBaron, I took your advice on fudging Maryland a tad and did. Same in swapping Delaware for another territory in South Carolina.

Ok, this should be good for number of territories and I think gameplay has been solidified.

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/1 Gameplay p. 14

Postby iancanton on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:23 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Ok, this should be good for number of territories

it certainly is! i prefer 4 regions for georgia and 3 for south carolina myself. this is because the ship gives an incentive to take georgia, while south carolina not only doesn't have that incentive, but it also has the indians attacking.

the ship bonuses look on the low side compared with the 2-colony bonuses. perhaps swap them so that they are +3 for each ship bonus and +2 for each 2-colony bonus?

the indians and the ships provide the width to the map that it needs so that baltimore doesn't become a bottleneck.

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:54 pm

See, I disagree about Georgia having 4 territories because i want the bonus to be easy enough to get in comparison with some of the easier bonuses up north, such as kill 4 neutrals for Conn and RI. The idea was to give the South an easier bonus, which a 4 terr. bonus for 2 or 3 men. I do see your point about raising the value of the ship bonuses... I might do next update.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby iancanton on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:00 pm

u're absolutely right about georgia! a 4-region south carolina will still be a relatively quiet zone though. better to remove a region from south carolina and give an extra one to pennsylvania or new jersey (though u'd have to exaggerate new jersey's size a bit), both of which expand easily to delaware. this fix ought to be virtually the last piece of the gameplay jigsaw!

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby jefjef on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:12 pm

One concern is the New York tert. It borders 6 terts. One of which is part of a ship bonus. That's a lot. Maybe redraw Trenton to not connect to New York.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby iancanton on Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:14 pm

or draw a very wide hudson river between new york and fort lee?

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:56 pm

I dunno, in defense of the S. Carolina 4th terr. I think that it adds some numerical weight to the south as well. Dividing at Maryland, we have 15 in the south and 23 in the north (excluding ships and allocating maryland to the north on account of the north's character of having many small colonies). Figuring every one is gaining 1 for every 3 terrs. it ought to help balance the later end of the game if it comes down to south versus north as the south won't be at such a disadvantage given its low territory count. Granted, the north still has numerical superiority, but this gives teh south a little more of a fighting chance. It also prevents a southern player from rushing up to the north too quickly I think.

So in that case, I think i want to leave S. Carolina at 4 terrs.

As for the New York Terr. point taken, I will redraw Trenton's connection. As for drawing in rivers... nah... there's no rivers at all on this map, I think it would break the graphical cohesion if I started now, plus throw gameplay into loops.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby jefjef on Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:34 pm

Do you really like the French ship bonus, which is easier to get, worth double what the british ship bonus is worth? I realize you want more weight to the south but it is twice as hard to get the British bonus. Especially considering that the landing terts will be fought over to be held for a colony bonus. Specifically Bunker Hill which is a choke point. Come to think of it landing that ship there does put a lot of weight on that tert. What if you landed it at Cape Cod or redraw Cape Cod So it connects to Exeter? (I promise not to point out that Exeter is also a choke point.)


Great work btw!!!
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby iancanton on Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:31 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I dunno, in defense of the S. Carolina 4th terr. I think that it adds some numerical weight to the south as well. Dividing at Maryland, we have 15 in the south and 23 in the north (excluding ships and allocating maryland to the north on account of the north's character of having many small colonies).

maryland does resemble a small northern colony. however, if we have north and south players with a roughly equal number of regions, then the gameplay division is more naturally at the bottleneck of baltimore, where either player can build a strongpoint. in this scenario, a 4th region in south carolina is actually a disadvantage, since it prevents him from securing the state so easily, while a 4th region in pennsyvlania can be a disadvantage for the player who is trying to grab that state (probably the north, but also possibly the south, since it borders baltimore).

north: 22 regions including delaware gives bonus of 7 + 9 + 2 = 18 troops.
south: 20 regions including maryland gives bonus of 6 + 6 + 2 + 2 = 16 troops.

if the north is forced to take a 4th pennsylvania region and loses delaware because the south doesn't have to occupy a 4th south carolina region, then the southern bonus becomes 18 troops, the same as the northern bonus.

this is all fairly hypothetical and, in practice, i suspect it'll be rare for games to be so evenly-matched. both of the southern positions above appear to be tenable to some extent so, if u have greater support for a big south carolina rather than a big pennsylvania, then we can try it like that.

Industrial Helix wrote:As for the New York Terr. point taken, I will redraw Trenton's connection.

this is probably better than putting in a river, for the reason that u stated.

jefjef wrote:Do you really like the French ship bonus, which is easier to get, worth double what the british ship bonus is worth? I realize you want more weight to the south but it is twice as hard to get the British bonus.

increase the british ship bonus to +3, but leave each french ship bonus at +2?

for players who don't know the geography of new york well, we need to make clear whether long island connects with both new york and fort lee, or only with new york and not with fort lee.

ian. :)
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:00 pm

Ok, points all taken. Thanks guys.

I upped the British Bonus to 3, redrew Cape Cod, added Fort Pitt (which split up the one of the Indian territory connection points), removed Georgetown from S. Carolina.

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/2 Gameplay p. 14

Postby iancanton on Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:12 am

we've now reached a point where it's possible to do the odd bit of bonus fine-tuning, for example perhaps to reduce the 2-colony bonus to +2 because this bonus often involves attacking just a single region then reinforcing. however, since the map, having undergone detailed examination, is now more than playable, it's time for the graphics to advance!

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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D] Update 9/7 Gameplay p. 14

Postby Kabanellas on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:26 am

Congrats Helix!!!!!! Good job. Eager to play it :)
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D, GP] Update 9/7 Graphics p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:34 am

woot! Got another stamp!

So, about the bonuses... Every colony is 3 territories save for the 1 territory colonies. So at a minimum the bonus will be holding 4 territories (1 taken from neutrals), for 3 men. Every other bonus, we're looking at 42 other possible combination at a minimum of 6 territories. Holding 6 territories for only 2 men seems a little under paid.

Anyway, we can put it to a poll and let that discussion go on while things go towards a graphics discussion.

Next on my To Do list: making the small map
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D, Gp] Update 9/7 Graphics p. 14

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:31 am

Make the map look half as good on the small version and you are more than set, grats!

Tiny nitpick on the French flag, can you see if you get the fluer-de-lee's to be a bit more distinguishable? I think the yellow needs to be a darker shade, that'll probably fix it. Otherwise the flag is pretty much white(not all together out of place for the French :lol: kidding :P )

I agree with you on the bonuses, keeping the 2 colony bonus at +3, to combat that perhaps you could make the neutral value on RI, Conn, and Delaware 4 or 5, that way they won't be taken during the first turn(probably) and means they will only be taken down the road to enhance the colony bonus.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D, Gp] Update 9/7 Graphics p. 14

Postby jefjef on Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:58 pm

Love it!. Though IMO Guildford Courthouse & Willmington needs to be redrawn.

NOTE: As the bonus structure is - the ship bonuses would be priority combat areas. Easiest for good value. Especially the French.

EDIT:
42 terts (not counting indian). 3 of em neutral 1 tert colonies. Does this map need 1 more tert? Brought up to 40 deploy instead of 39. (considering 5 & 8 player games)

Great work Helix. 1 more thought. If ya reduced the tert name size by about 10% would it ease some of the congestion in the limited space areas?
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D, GP] Update 9/7 Graphics p. 14

Postby iancanton on Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:23 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Holding 6 territories for only 2 men seems a little under paid.

RedBaron0 wrote:I agree with you on the bonuses, keeping the 2 colony bonus at +3, to combat that perhaps you could make the neutral value on RI, Conn, and Delaware 4 or 5

jefjef wrote:the ship bonuses would be priority combat areas. Easiest for good value. Especially the French.

from what everyone is saying, it looks as if the 2-colony bonus will have to stay at +3, so that players don't focus only on the ships! 3 neutrals seems to be a fairly good number for the 1-region colonies, from experience of the castle bonus in castle lands (the castle, which offers a +2 bonus, often remains untouched throughout the game because 4 neutrals is a deterrent, especially in those games where u aim to conquer at least one region each turn for the spoils - there's quite a high chance of losing to 4 neutrals if u're attacking with 6 troops).

ian. :)
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Re: The 13 American Colonies [D, Gp] Update 9/7 Graphics p. 14

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:58 am

The White flag... I'm prolly going to have to get a new flag altogether and I toyed with the current one and couldn't get much out of it. It's a bit difficult given the size of it but I'll see what I can do.

On the terr. count... I counted 39. I dunno about raising the terr count to 40... If everyone wants it I can do it.

As for the font size... its possible, but as i've found already it gets a tad difficult to read when it gets too small... I'm going to see how it goes with the small map first.

Anyway, I basically shrunk it down and removed all the little numbers. I did leave one there to show how well they fit on the dots... which is cramped at best. I'm not entirely sure where to take it, so I thought I'd let you guys have a look and give me your thoughts:

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