Don't switch maps.

[jbrettlip]

I am playing a dubs on Germany...map just got switched to Germany 2. This is just stupid, as it effects the gameplay. Borders changed, layout changed etc.

I know CC loves screwing over long time players, but this is even more ridiculouser than all the bans. and yes, I used "more ridiculouser".

So don't switch maps anymore mid game. It isn't a beta map, Germany has been a map since I started.

[Incandenza]

While the map looks different (read: far, far better), no actual borders have been changed, and the gameplay is still 100% the same, as has been the case with every revamp.

[pepperonibread]

Thanks Inc.
He's right, gameplay is identical to the old map, though the continents may be shaped somewhat differently for maximum accuracy in regards to actual German borders.

[ManBungalow]

While the map looks different (read: far, far better), no actual borders have been changed, and the gameplay is still 100% the same, as has been the case with every revamp.

That's all that need be said, so I'll quote it.

Thanks Inc.
He's right, gameplay is identical to the old map, though the continents may be shaped somewhat differently for maximum accuracy in regards to actual German borders.

I like the new map...take a look at Discworld next

[demonfork]

When would you suggest they make the switch?

[tyche73]

While the map looks different (read: far, far better), no actual borders have been changed, and the gameplay is still 100% the same, as has been the case with every revamp.

ok the borders might not have been changed and the german colours put onto the map
it went from and easy,colourful map to read to a hard one.
you think black is a good colour for a map???
i won't be in a hurry to play it again

[jghost7]

I have to concur.
#1. Please dont switch maps mid game. We started on one map, allow us to finish what we started. grandfather them in or something.

#2. I cannot read the map(germany2), especially up top(prussia?) where you cant see the borders. I dont know what to do when i cant see what is happening.

#3. the original germany was a clear, easy to read map and should be available to play as well.


very frustrating to have this happen.

thanks,
J

[Incandenza]

Then I invite you to visit the Map Foundry, where the Germany revamp was developed over the course of a year and a half before it was approved and loaded.

Personally, I think the new map is a quantum leap forward visually.

[demonfork]

Then I invite you to visit the Map Foundry, where the Germany revamp was developed over the course of a year and a half before it was approved and loaded.

Personally, I think the new map is a quantum leap forward visually.

I think that the new version looks like a stinky turd compared to the original version.

[the.killing.44]

The topic of the revamp was posted March 22nd, 2008. Why don't you say it looks like a turd sometime last year, if ever. It doesn't help anything right now.

[jbrettlip]

I don't like the fact that it changed mid game. I do think borders have changed, but can't find the old map to verify.


I don't go to the foundry. I had no idea this was going to be done. I am always happy to see what the foundry comes up with, so I can DECIDE if I want to play the new map.

[the.killing.44]

I don't like the fact that it changed mid game. I do think borders have changed, but can't find the old map to verify.


I don't go to the foundry. I had no idea this was going to be done. I am always happy to see what the foundry comes up with, so I can DECIDE if I want to play the new map.

To be honest, I do agree that games started on the old maps should stay as such. But that's a different coding issue.

You can be assured all the bonuses and borders are the same, though the layout looks different.

.44

[owenshooter]

Then I invite you to visit the Map Foundry, where the Germany revamp was developed over the course of a year and a half before it was approved and loaded.

Personally, I think the new map is a quantum leap forward visually.

I think that the new version looks like a stinky turd compared to the original version.

yep, pretty much... and i didn't select to play a game on it, so i shouldn't have to play a game on it... they ruined montreal, one of my fav maps in a revamp, and i don't play that anymore either... time to put germany into the "ruined by revamp" pile...-0

[pepperonibread]

I don't like the fact that it changed mid game. I do think borders have changed, but can't find the old map to verify.

I don't go to the foundry. I had no idea this was going to be done. I am always happy to see what the foundry comes up with, so I can DECIDE if I want to play the new map.

You don't have to worry, as it's been verified for you. Several times. Links if you really wanna go through everything yourself:

Old Map
New Map

Here's something I posted in the map thread, hopefully it will alleviate some confusion as to whether borders have really been altered:

Hey everybody. More than other maps, revamps like this have certain restrictions on how they are developed. One of the most important of these is that a revamp cannot change the "gameplay" of the map being revamped. Basically, which territories border which other territories and which continents they are contained in must remain the same as in the original map.

Take the dark gray continent Preussen (the red continent Prussia in the old map). If you take a look at the two maps, you can see that each territory on the old map directly corresponds to one territory on the new map. For example, Potsdam on the old map, bordering three territories of other continents and two in its own, is equivalent to Magdeburg on the new map, which has the same border configuration. Dresden on the old map, which borders three territories in its own continent, corresponds to Potsdam on the new map, which also has these borders.

Here are a few more examples to clarify:
Old map's Donrath = New map's Koblenz
Old map's Erfurt = New map's Zwickau
Old map's Augsburg = New map's Bayreuth
Old map's Niedersachsen = New map's Bremen
etc.

In this way, while names have been changed and border shapes have been altered, the gameplay of the map remains identical. So if I want to make the map more accurate, I have to make sure that there are no gameplay changes while I edit it.

If everyone could try and make sure that their suggestions don't break any of these "rules", that would be great

And here's a master list of all the territories on each map (Old map - New map), to show what each individual name was changed to. In some cases names were switched between two territs, other places new names were used for greater accuracy, and several names were not changed at all:

1. Kiel – Rugen
2. Hamburg – Rostock
3. Schwerin – Schwerin
4. Berlin – Berlin
5. Dresden – Potsdam
6. Potsdam – Magdeburg
7. Sachsen – Dresden
8. Leipzig – Chemnitz
9. Magdeburg – Leipzig
10. Erfurt – Zwickau
11. Thuringen – Erfurt
12. Halberstadt – Eisenach
13. Bremen – Kiel
14. Emden – Bremerhaven
15. Hemeln – Gottingen
16. Hannover – Hannover
17. Wolfsburg – Braunschweig
18. Luneburg – Lubeck
19. Niedersachsen – Bremen
20. Bremenhaven – Hamburg
21. Munster – Munster
22. Aachen – Dusseldorf
23. Koln – Koln
24. Bonn – Trier
25. Donrath – Koblenz
26. Mainz – Mainz
27. Frankfurt – Heilbronn
28. Trier – Karlsruhe
29. Heidelberg – Stuttgart
30. Stuttgart – Ulm
31. The Alps – Rosenheim
32. Munchen – Munchen
33. Nurnberg – Nurnberg
34. Bamberg – Wurzburg
35. Bayreuth – Coburg
36. Augsburg – Bayreuth
37. Passau – Passau
38. Bavaria – Regensburg
39. Osnabruck – Osnabruck
40. Tubingen – Freiburg
41. Hessen – Frankfurt
42. Dusseldorf – Kassel

[TheBro]

Screenshots are a little messed up...

[jbrettlip]

Thanks for that..I see that territories like Bremenhaven were relocated. SO I was seeing it not bordering Hamburg on the old, but bordering it on the new.

I know the foundry was working on it for a long time, but aren't there rivers of some consequence in Germany??

[owenshooter]

I know the foundry was working on it for a long time, but aren't there rivers of some consequence in Germany??

nope, THE RINE is a very little known river outside of towns located on it's banks within the heartland of deutschland... why include The Rhine on a map of germany? thankfully they took it out of this revamp...
whew...-0

[jbrettlip]

[quote="jI know the foundry was working on it for a long time, but aren't there rivers of some consequence in Germany??

nope, THE RINE is a very little known river outside of towns located on it's banks within the heartland of deutschland... why include The Rhine on a map of germany? thankfully they took it out of this revamp...
whew...-0[/quote]

yeah, that movie "a bridge too far" never made much sense to me. I KNEW there weren't rivers in Germany. It is a desert wasteland, much like the Sahara.

[jghost7]

Then I invite you to visit the Map Foundry, where the Germany revamp was developed over the course of a year and a half before it was approved and loaded.

Personally, I think the new map is a quantum leap forward visually.

Quantum leap huh? When you cant see a whole continent, that must show all of the leaping forward. Obviously either the year and a half wasnt long enough, or the input was not sufficient. Not really trying to underappreciate the foundry's work, as I love some of the maps, and the idea that more are coming, however, it seems us CC members are being disregarded in this matter. Everytime we post our thoughts about this, one the the foundry members tells us how good the map is and how we are wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that I cannot see any of the borders in prussia(the black area). No matter that the idea may be good to some, when you cant distinguish borders, it kills gameplay. And with that, I must conclude that 'quantum leap forward visually' is nothing more than propaganda.

The map is interesting if you remove the facts that you cant see anything but troop numbers in prussia, and everything in nord deutschland is not clear. A clear map does wonders for players. There are other maps like this that have areas that are not clear...I do not play these more than the one time it takes for me to find out.

In the future, I recommend that you shy away from dark shading in maps as it tends to hide borderlines.

Thanks,
J


PS. Please do not follow every post with a foundry member re-touting the new version. It is not a productive practice.

PSS. One idea is to stop allowing new games on a 'revamp' until all games are complete and then implement the 'revamp' map if you cannot only make new games the 'revamp'. Simple fact, changing maps mid game sucks.

[sully800]

Then I invite you to visit the Map Foundry, where the Germany revamp was developed over the course of a year and a half before it was approved and loaded.

Personally, I think the new map is a quantum leap forward visually.

Quantum leap huh? When you cant see a whole continent, that must show all of the leaping forward. Obviously either the year and a half wasnt long enough, or the input was not sufficient. Not really trying to underappreciate the foundry's work, as I love some of the maps, and the idea that more are coming, however, it seems us CC members are being disregarded in this matter. Everytime we post our thoughts about this, one the the foundry members tells us how good the map is and how we are wrong. The simple fact of the matter is that I cannot see any of the borders in prussia(the black area). No matter that the idea may be good to some, when you cant distinguish borders, it kills gameplay. And with that, I must conclude that 'quantum leap forward visually' is nothing more than propaganda.

The map is interesting if you remove the facts that you cant see anything but troop numbers in prussia, and everything in nord deutschland is not clear. A clear map does wonders for players. There are other maps like this that have areas that are not clear...I do not play these more than the one time it takes for me to find out.

In the future, I recommend that you shy away from dark shading in maps as it tends to hide borderlines.

Thanks,
J


PS. Please do not follow every post with a foundry member re-touting the new version. It is not a productive practice.

PSS. One idea is to stop allowing new games on a 'revamp' until all games are complete and then implement the 'revamp' map if you cannot only make new games the 'revamp'. Simple fact, changing maps mid game sucks.

I have no problem seeing any of the borders in Prussia and I have heard no complaints of that until this thread. Since the concern was never levied before you can't expect it would be solved for your particular color blindness. However the fact that you can't see the borders is a very real concern and one that should be addressed, because that is a problem that the color blind codes cannot solve (though grease monkey can, just not in a clean manner). If I were in your position I would go to the thread in the foundry and specifically state your problem and a solution. I suppose increasing the contrast between the background and the lines would help your situation.

The reason people keep mentioning that this map has been around for a year and a half is not just to say "It's gone through a lot of work" and it's definitely not to say "I'm not willing to change anything else". The point is that it has been around for an extremely long time so there has been a chance for CC users to see the map and have their concerns addressed before the switch took place. Now I understand that not everyone is interested in foundry threads, but that also means you won't know what is happening with the maps until they are loaded onto the site. Cartographers are very willing to change things when problems exist, and your issue seems to be a big problem.

[tyche73]

i play cc for fun i join the games and settings i like (as every other player)
map foundry isn't a part of cc i look at ,ever

so by writting in this forum ''why didn't we say it over the last year while we were changing it''
is a pretty poor way of addressing it
of the 20k players that play cc how many visit the map foundry??? i think i've been it twice since i started playing
and it bores me to tears,so i don't look
germany wasn't a beta map either
anyway i won't be writting about this again ,you can colour the whole map black if you like i won't be playing i again

[grandin]

[...] The map is interesting if you remove the facts that you cant see anything but troop numbers in prussia, and everything in nord deutschland is not clear.

[...] Since the concern was never levied before you can't expect it would be solved for your particular color blindness. However the fact that you can't see the borders is a very real concern and one that should be addressed, because that is a problem that the color blind codes cannot solve (though grease monkey can, just not in a clean manner).

I don't think this is a case of color blindness. This is not about color, rather it's about brightness/contrast, which i don't believe poses very much of a problem for the color blind as long as lighting conditions are good.
I could be wrong, but wouldn't this have to be related to faulty display settings?

[jghost7]

[...] The map is interesting if you remove the facts that you cant see anything but troop numbers in prussia, and everything in nord deutschland is not clear.

[...] Since the concern was never levied before you can't expect it would be solved for your particular color blindness. However the fact that you can't see the borders is a very real concern and one that should be addressed, because that is a problem that the color blind codes cannot solve (though grease monkey can, just not in a clean manner).

I don't think this is a case of color blindness. This is not about color, rather it's about brightness/contrast, which i don't believe poses very much of a problem for the color blind as long as lighting conditions are good.
I could be wrong, but wouldn't this have to be related to faulty display settings?

I can see most of everything else on conquer club, and everything else on the internet. I also do not experience similar problems on any other endeavor on the internet. Maybe my contrast is slightly different from yours... But my issue is valid. I went and took a peek at the original 'revamp' that hoff had.
[Official] Germany REVAMP - 7/17 Update pg. 21 [I,Gp,Gr, X]
The original revamp looked good, and all of the borders are clean. (This was before the color and background changes)

In the future, I would suggest veering away from color schemes that have a dark tone, ie black, or superdark grey, because seeing borders can be an issue.


Thanks again,
J

lol, colorblind....blind to black is it....lol

[jammyjames]

While the map looks different (read: far, far better), no actual borders have been changed, and the gameplay is still 100% the same, as has been the case with every revamp.

the same cant be said for when british isles got revamped, they changed some territs too. and added a few more in ireland..

[Supermarioluigi]

Forget the borders of the new map...I can't see the Territory names up in Prussia.


Can we at least not switch map mid-game?
It's gotta be confusing for anyone to have it suddenly switch in the middle of a game.


Perhaps there can be announcement of sorts before the map is replaced?
Surely it can't be hard just to make a post saying. "Germany map is ready for revamp. (link to thread)
Please post any concerns about the new map in the thread."