Unannounced Family members.....

[LetGodSortThem]

Do you think standard games with two or more unannounced family members:

:should be private or

:let the other players in game know you are family

[Anarkistsdream]

My vote is for either... I have no problem with one or the other.

[sully800]

Announcing they are family members from the beginning would in many cases help to prevent them from being seen as multis (if its actually true). By not announcing they might increase that risk, but if they announce I suppose some people might feel their is a secret alliance happening. In any case, I don't think its NECESSARY to divulge that info, however it would be a nice thing to do. And if someone asks about the situation I think they should certainly answer.

[b.k. barunt]

How about friends? Where do we stop this nonsense? You are assuming the worst about human nature - most of the people on this site are looking for some good, honest competition and in many cases were introduced to the site by friends and family. So they shouldn't play in games with them just because of some paranoid wankers? You often suspect that of others which would be true of yourself. Sully is right - if they are asked they should tell. I and my nephew paulus were accused of cheating because i made the comment "whipped your old uncle again" in the chat AFTER the offended party was put out of the game - like i didn't think he'd check back to see who won? To accuse someone of cheating so frivolously is pretty gay. Players like LetGodSortThem are the kind who love red tape and restrictive paranoid rules. I have more heated competition with friends and family than i do with strangers, and no one should question my integrity simply because i am in the game with someone i know.

[Anarkistsdream]

You often suspect that of others which would be true of yourself.

Yes, I do. And if I knew anybody who played here that I actually knew in the real world, I would make sure to announce that... I think this is more about people playing from the same house... Not just knowing one another.

It is a boon to not be seen as a multi, so, if you don't want to be accused, announce it or don't play on the same PC...

[b.k. barunt]

You still haven't answered my question - how about friends?

[LetGodSortThem]

You often suspect that of others which would be true of yourself.

Who' paranoid now?...If you believe I am playing with family or friends...or I cheat, make your evidence known...make an accusation....not some vague saying...cuse your wrong.............................

If I'm going to play friends I'll bring out the board game...rather roll my own die.................

I have more heated competition with friends and family than i do with strangers,

Then why play strangers?...

[Paulus]

FYI none of us play from the same house. We all live in different homes, and even different cities. It is not fair to assume that family members use the same computer.

[Anarkistsdream]

You still haven't answered my question - how about friends?

I did answer your question... If they play from the same house, announce... If they don't, you might mention it, and you should be expected to answer truthfully if asked, but I wouldn't think it crossing the line.

[Anarkistsdream]

FYI none of us play from the same house. We all live in different homes, and even different cities. It is not fair to assume that family members use the same computer.

Exactly... That is why I made sure that I said from the same house... Anything else is a courtesy, unless you are directly asked if you are related or friends with someone else in the game.

[UCAbears]

Announcing they are family members from the beginning would in many cases help to prevent them from being seen as multis (if its actually true). By not announcing they might increase that risk, but if they announce I suppose some people might feel their is a secret alliance happening. In any case, I don't think its NECESSARY to divulge that info, however it would be a nice thing to do. And if someone asks about the situation I think they should certainly answer.

or.... you can tell lack that you have family members that use the same computer like me.

[AAFitz]

im a big fan of families playing together...if cd didnt play with me, i dont think she would understand why i like it so much...and some of the most fun games ive had in here have been against other couples...

my dad also plays, or did, but i only played doubles with them, for the most part....and privates for the singles....minus a couple of mistakes and a few my dad joined me in...

i personally dont like singles games...i lost every one with them in them that werent doubles, because i knew the other people would feel cheated if i had to favor one of them to win...which sometimes happens...so i really do feel family should play doubles, trips, or private games....i happen to trust that most wont cheat...however, it makes others feel cheated which is just as bad...

its not the loss of points that people dont like, its the feeling of being cheated that bothers them...evident by the ten plus anticheat posts per day, so it really seems its not worth the chance of annoying other players, and most of the other couples i play with feel the same way...actually, i think all of them do...

[Fircoal]

This is a baised poll, what about the people who don't care what the names on the right say. One, of my family members plays here, and I don't know enough RL people to have a private game or get out the board game. So I think just playing, and not focusing on who is who is better. And if you said that you were family members from the start you would be under more suspicion, probably.

[AAFitz]

i think what it comes down to is some people feel cheated if they are in games with families and didnt know it....for me it doesnt matter....all of the high ranking players all know each other by name, play doubles and triples together...etc...so you have to play with a degree of trust anyways...

but it is hard for some to think you wont favor your brother or father....i happen to know it is very possible, but dont think its worth the risk...

its easy enough to set up privates in callouts and fill up the games...and doubles and trips let you play with family with only a few people getting annoyed...some you cant please at all...

but it just seems like it is easier that way...i have actually played a few couples who wont even play doubles together, because they dont want to be accused of cheating...which i think is pushing it...but like everything else, it depends on the situation

[Fircoal]

the callouts don't always seem to work, as for the doubles idea, I all ready do that.

[AAFitz]

once this place gets rolling, i think there will eventually be an arena or usergroup for families to play in...

cd and i used to play lots of doubles, but her heart isnt into it anymore, so she only plays when another couple asks us to play, or the tourney we joined

I at one point settup a post in callouts for couples to post, so we could have a sort of couples arena...but it didnt really work

I think right now, there isnt enough space for such things...but the more premiums that join, the more such things will be available...im hoping

[Paulus]

I also think this poll is somewhat biased because it does not address the issue of whether or not people think that related members should be required to announce their relation at the start of a game or not. Instead, this poll presents two options that try to place a restriction on related players in a standard game by either forcing them to play in Private games only or by being required to announce their relationship at the start of a game.

I understand AAFitz's concern about players "feeling" like they may have been cheated if they lose a game in which there were two or more related players. However, it is not enough for players to "feel" like they may have been cheated if there is no evidence within the game chat, game log, or private messages(which can probably be accessed by moderators), that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the related players had cheated. So, players can "feel" cheated all they want, but accusations of cheating must be proven either by the accuser or by one or more moderators who deal with this sort of thing. Not all some players on this site players who "feel" cheated will accuse related players of cheating because they actually think they cheated, but because some players on this site can't stand losing sometimes and will accuse one or more other players of cheating in order to justify their defeat. We can't have people irresponsibly throwing out accusations whenever they lose if they can't support their accusations. Restricting family members to private standard games or requiring them to announce their relationship at the start of a game is basically giving related players an undeserved, negative impression placed upon them before a game even starts, which defeats the purpose of having feedback for players.

[AAFitz]

technically playing with family is no different than playing with friends...you either cheat or dont cheat...

but since many find it hard to believe that you wont favor a brother more than a complete stranger, i just think its better not to enter public games

accussations without proof are annoying too, and ive posted no less than 20 times against it...but proof is very subjective in here...unless the game goes on indefinitely, someone somewhere attacks someone more than the other...

i just think family will avoid such complications by playing with people they know dont mind in privates, and most or the other family teams i know of agree...i dont see how the fun of one public game can outweigh the annoyance of accusations, and making others feel cheated

i personally would assume my chances are better against two strangers than two relatives...this game can be decided by the slightest of moves so there is never any real proof, in close games...

[Paulus]

Yes, you either cheat or not. One, however, cannot assume that family members will cheat simply because they are related. Relatives can be fiercely competitive with each other and will sometimes make it a priority to go after each other making it easier for other players to gain the advantage. I always play fairly and according to the rules. It can be difficult to prove that another has cheated in a game, but it is not impossible or else the moderators would not bother to investigate reports of alleged cheating. I will certainly not stop playing public games with relatives because of the possibility of being annoyed by someone accusing me of cheating because it's the principle of the matter. I should not have, or be required, to restrict games with relatives to private games or announce a relationship at the beginning of a game. I will, however, always truthfully answer any other opposing player in a game that directly asks me if I am related to any other player in that particular game.

I also want to thank you, AAFitz, for debating this with me in a polite and courteous manner. This can be hard to come by sometimes.

[AAFitz]

well im really only stating my thoughts on the subject...its a muddy one, and no way to know for sure whats right or wrong...

but the mods do block family members if there are repeated accusations as they do with friends , so i recommend you be careful

[Evil Semp]

I agree with fitz. My wife and I only play doubles or private games together, and if by chance we get into a public game together we announce it. I think it is the right thing to do.

[AAFitz]

though evil semp and mrs semper might just give it away....

[Evil Semp]

Now you tell me. I was wondering how everyone figured it out.

[b.k. barunt]

For my part, i will from henceforth declare immediately in the chat when my son or nephew is in the game with me. But what about friends? Should they be declared also? How about people that i have met on the site and partnered with? Where do we stop this nonsense? The whole thing with scoring is far too important to some people. Albro shlo can cite from memory what his highest place on the chart was and can't even spell colonel. WTF?

[Anarkistsdream]

Albro shlo can cite from memory what his highest place on the chart was and can't even spell colonel. WTF?

WTF, indeed? As in, WTF did that have to do with your argument.

Just ask the mods and lack and abide by their decision.. Simple and easy, and with no bashing, name-calling, or immaturity.