Logic dictates that there is a God!

[Phatscotty]

God completely exists. Vastly, the people of his creation have been fluorinated and fooled into believing that He does not... and even as His prophesey in the book of Revelations is coming true before your very eyes, you fail to see it. Wake up and Join the army of God to fight evil.

isnt the book of prophecy Always coming true before our eyes? think about it.

[Army of GOD]

army of God

Thanks for the bump

[Phatscotty]

army of God

Thanks for the bump

lmao

[AAFitz]

There will almost certainly never be an end to the argument of "God's" existence. You can't prove it exists, you can't prove it doesn't.

Some day God's proof will be right in front of your face and this begs the question: Would you look at his face if seeing meant believing?

This is a good question to ponder. While I ponder that, ponder this. If in the end, when you die, you realize there is no God. How would you feel if you found you devoted your life to believing in a reality that was completely made up, and that you helped continue?

In the end, the fate of the atheist, and the fate of the believer is the same if they are wrong, they will never see God. Which means, they will never know they were wrong in the first place. Unless of course there is a vindictive God, that will allow His chosen ones to yell down and say "I told you so"

Though I suppose the atheist might actually have a chance, if God is actually a true being of pure good, and devoid of all evil, that would not judge a person on his beliefs, but how he lived his life, and how he treated His children.

That is the psychological beauty of allowing yourself to believe in God. No one will ever prove you wrong either way. When you die, it simply wont matter. You may be vindicated, and rewarded, but there will be no one to say I told you so. You may have lived an entire life believing in a lie, but at least you will never have to actually realize this, and therefore will have no need to regret it.

[Phatscotty]

God is simply an acronym for what mankind does not yet understand. God changes over time. When we discovered what lightning was, God was weakened GREATLY. when we discovered the sun isn't apollo, it's a star, god was greatly weakened. The more we know, the less we need to define what god is and what it means. All I believe in is that there is something greater than myself and this whole world. call it what you want but if you are gonna talk like you know about it you are just wasting your breathe and damaging your credibility.

[Gregrios]

There will almost certainly never be an end to the argument of "God's" existence. You can't prove it exists, you can't prove it doesn't.

Some day God's proof will be right in front of your face and this begs the question: Would you look at his face if seeing meant believing?

This is a good question to ponder. While I ponder that, ponder this. If in the end, when you die, you realize there is no God. How would you feel if you found you devoted your life to believing in a reality that was completely made up, and that you helped continue?

That's a fair question. No need to ponder on it though as I've already thought about this in the past. I decided then while my faith was not as strong as it is now that I'm just going to roll with it cause that's how I roll, dog.

Even if God doesn't exist, living by his guidence brings so many benefits that it would be worth the ride anyhow. But if you live by the opposite of God's guidence then you live with guilt and where I come from that's no way to live.

Your turn!

[AAFitz]

There will almost certainly never be an end to the argument of "God's" existence. You can't prove it exists, you can't prove it doesn't.

Some day God's proof will be right in front of your face and this begs the question: Would you look at his face if seeing meant believing?

This is a good question to ponder. While I ponder that, ponder this. If in the end, when you die, you realize there is no God. How would you feel if you found you devoted your life to believing in a reality that was completely made up, and that you helped continue?

That's a fair question. No need to ponder on it though as I've already thought about this in the past. I decided then while my faith was not as strong as it is now that I'm just going to roll with it cause that's how I roll, dog.

Even if God doesn't exist, living by his guidence brings so many benefits that it would be worth the ride anyhow. But if you live by the opposite of God's guidence then you live with guilt and where I come from that's no way to live.

Your turn!

That is a great way to live your life. Granted, those who do not believe, may not suffer guilt, but still, its a win-win situation, with the exception that if you were wrong, any time spent praying, that could have been spent spreading actual good, will have been wasted.

I myself may not believe in the existence of God per-se, but I believe there is no arguing the beauty and pure usefulness of the message on how to live.

I believe in fact, that in fact, not being confined to any religion, or specific set of rules, and following the basic premise that treating others well, is the underlying universal message in any real religion, and that by doing that, you will live a good life, and perhaps even be rewarded after life. However, I believe that faith, especially in one set of rules, and one religion in particular, can tend to lead to self righteousness, and lead to people leading bad lives, in the name of good.

[Gregrios]

God is simply an acronym for what mankind does not yet understand. God changes over time. When we discovered what lightning was, God was weakened GREATLY. when we discovered the sun isn't apollo, it's a star, god was greatly weakened. The more we know, the less we need to define what god is and what it means. All I believe in is that there is something greater than myself and this whole world. call it what you want but if you are gonna talk like you know about it you are just wasting your breathe and damaging your credibility.

So you see it to be more sensible to believe in some higher power that's NEVER confronted or exposed himself to man instead of believing in God who HAS confronted and exposed himself to man. You sound alot like I was before I found God. Back in the day I believed in a higher power but was very cautious about accepting God because that would've meant that I would've had to stop my partying ways and start living a life of meaning. Eventually I grew up and decided to read the Bible for the first time in my life. Since then, I've had no regrets and I'm a much better person for it.

[AAFitz]

God is simply an acronym for what mankind does not yet understand. God changes over time. When we discovered what lightning was, God was weakened GREATLY. when we discovered the sun isn't apollo, it's a star, god was greatly weakened. The more we know, the less we need to define what god is and what it means. All I believe in is that there is something greater than myself and this whole world. call it what you want but if you are gonna talk like you know about it you are just wasting your breathe and damaging your credibility.

So you see it to be more sensible to believe in some higher power that's NEVER confronted or exposed himself to man instead of believing in God who HAS confronted and exposed himself to man. You sound alot like I was before I found God. Back in the day I believed in a higher power but was very cautious about accepting God because that would've meant that I would've had to stop my partying ways and start living a life of meaning. Eventually I grew up and decided to read the Bible for the first time in my life. Since then, I've had no regrets and I'm a much better person for it.

Well, I lived as much of my life never questioning it, and with plenty of education. I believe fully in the main message of the catholic religion and christianity, but have no problem adjusting it to modern society, and more importantly common sense.

I, from a logical stand point, know that any true God, any God of Good, devoid of evil, simply can not care about details. He can only logically care about His children. He can have no ego, so praise is wasted. He can have no ego, so thanks are unnecessary, and while you may pray for something, to do so, when realistically, you have so much more than many of His children is so absolutely selfish, as to logically induce punishment, and not any reward.

Further from a logical stand point, I simply stopped believing an actual creator existed. I find it far more likely, that He is a construct of men, and essentially a work of fiction, with the main goal of helping mankind. I believe the message is a good one, but if followed incorrectly, or misquoted, can and has been used for great crimes against humanity.

In the end, I know this. Any Good God, would never truly care about the small things that any religion seems to stress so much. Its so obvious, that its simply stunning that most cannot see it. More importantly, for 30 different religions with billions of different people believing in something different, some, vastly different, leads me to believe, that no real God ever existed. That this is a result of People telling stories, and those stories being changed. I simply find it hard to believe in a God, that would allow, a system, that rewarded those lucky enough to have been born in the correct religion, while punishing, or lesser rewarding those, that live their lives believing in what they were taught as children.

So, its not that I dont believe a God can exist, its that I simply dont believe he does. Without a doubt its easier to believe. In fact, the more you believe, the easier it is. In fact, if you really believe, you never really have to worry about anything, except doing good, and saying sorry, because God will take care of the rest.

However, if there is no God, then we must take responsibility for the human race ourselves. We must insure its survival, its peace, that we have enough food, and that the climate does not change to the point where our species is lost. This, without a doubt is more difficult, and is undoubtedly a more difficult way to live. It however, does not mean it is the wrong way to live, and if believing in a God, that does not exist, results in a lack of action, to better, and to protect the human race.. then in fact, it is a negative thing in the end.

Again, either way, if the atheist is wrong, and the believer is wrong, they will never know it. But they may very well live their entire lives in vain.

[Gregrios]

God is simply an acronym for what mankind does not yet understand. God changes over time. When we discovered what lightning was, God was weakened GREATLY. when we discovered the sun isn't apollo, it's a star, god was greatly weakened. The more we know, the less we need to define what god is and what it means. All I believe in is that there is something greater than myself and this whole world. call it what you want but if you are gonna talk like you know about it you are just wasting your breathe and damaging your credibility.

So you see it to be more sensible to believe in some higher power that's NEVER confronted or exposed himself to man instead of believing in God who HAS confronted and exposed himself to man. You sound alot like I was before I found God. Back in the day I believed in a higher power but was very cautious about accepting God because that would've meant that I would've had to stop my partying ways and start living a life of meaning. Eventually I grew up and decided to read the Bible for the first time in my life. Since then, I've had no regrets and I'm a much better person for it.

Well, I lived as much of my life never questioning it, and with plenty of education. I believe fully in the main message of the catholic religion and christianity, but have no problem adjusting it to modern society, and more importantly common sense.

I, from a logical stand point, know that any true God, any God of Good, devoid of evil, simply can not care about details. He can only logically care about His children. He can have no ego, so praise is wasted. He can have no ego, so thanks are unnecessary, and while you may pray for something, to do so, when realistically, you have so much more than many of His children is so absolutely selfish, as to logically induce punishment, and not any reward.

Further from a logical stand point, I simply stopped believing an actual creator existed. I find it far more likely, that He is a construct of men, and essentially a work of fiction, with the main goal of helping mankind. I believe the message is a good one, but if followed incorrectly, or misquoted, can and has been used for great crimes against humanity.

In the end, I know this. Any Good God, would never truly care about the small things that any religion seems to stress so much. Its so obvious, that its simply stunning that most cannot see it. More importantly, for 30 different religions with billions of different people believing in something different, some, vastly different, leads me to believe, that no real God ever existed. That this is a result of People telling stories, and those stories being changed. I simply find it hard to believe in a God, that would allow, a system, that rewarded those lucky enough to have been born in the correct religion, while punishing, or lesser rewarding those, that live their lives believing in what they were taught as children.

So, its not that I dont believe a God can exist, its that I simply dont believe he does. Without a doubt its easier to believe. In fact, the more you believe, the easier it is. In fact, if you really believe, you never really have to worry about anything, except doing good, and saying sorry, because God will take care of the rest.

However, if there is no God, then we must take responsibility for the human race ourselves. We must insure its survival, its peace, that we have enough food, and that the climate does not change to the point where our species is lost. This, without a doubt is more difficult, and is undoubtedly a more difficult way to live. It however, does not mean it is the wrong way to live, and if believing in a God, that does not exist, results in a lack of action, to better, and to protect the human race.. then in fact, it is a negative thing in the end.

Again, either way, if the atheist is wrong, and the believer is wrong, they will never know it. But they may very well live their entire lives in vain.

If you realized just how many schemes this world has constructed inorder to drive people away from God, you'd probably change your mind.

PS. If my interpetation of Daniel and Revelations is correct then we will indeed find out what's what in this lifetime but until then you're right, we as a whole will never know for certain.

[PLAYER57832]

Well, I lived as much of my life never questioning it, and with plenty of education. I believe fully in the main message of the catholic religion and christianity, but have no problem adjusting it to modern society, and more importantly common sense.

I, from a logical stand point, know that any true God, any God of Good, devoid of evil, simply can not care about details. He can only logically care about His children. He can have no ego, so praise is wasted. He can have no ego, so thanks are unnecessary, and while you may pray for something, to do so, when realistically, you have so much more than many of His children is so absolutely selfish, as to logically induce punishment, and not any reward.

Further from a logical stand point, I simply stopped believing an actual creator existed. I find it far more likely, that He is a construct of men, and essentially a work of fiction, with the main goal of helping mankind. I believe the message is a good one, but if followed incorrectly, or misquoted, can and has been used for great crimes against humanity.

In the end, I know this. Any Good God, would never truly care about the small things that any religion seems to stress so much. Its so obvious, that its simply stunning that most cannot see it. More importantly, for 30 different religions with billions of different people believing in something different, some, vastly different, leads me to believe, that no real God ever existed. That this is a result of People telling stories, and those stories being changed. I simply find it hard to believe in a God, that would allow, a system, that rewarded those lucky enough to have been born in the correct religion, while punishing, or lesser rewarding those, that live their lives believing in what they were taught as children.

Sorry for butting in again here, but your comment caught my eye.

When you say that God cannot care about details, you hit on something that is both central to Christianity and a point of contention/disagreement.

I do believe God can and does intervene in our daily lives. However, there is the old connundrum -- you maybe praying that your team is winning, but the other team is praying just the opposite.

Prayer, talking to God really has more than one purpose. The idea of God as this great big "wish granter" (for lack of a better description) is pretty minor. Most Christians are taught to pray not for specific things, but that "God's will be done". The real purpose of prayer is not to "have our wishes granted". The real purpose is to communicate, to become closer to God, to open ourselves up to hear what God says.

It is not that God is incapable or is even "too busy" to attend to our daily needs. It is that he set up the universe, this Earth the way it is, with all its "rules" (that is, natural rules, etc. -- I don't really mean human religious rules in this context). Take something like Hurricane Katrina. Could God have stopped that? Of course! Were there plenty of people praying for just that? No doubt! Yet, it happened. God, in a sense let it happen. Part of the answer for why might well lie in science, things ilke the "butterfly theory" (that a flap of a butterfly wing may well be the one factor that finally spawns a great storm up north). For God to have stopped Katrina, would require him to violate the rules he set up here on Earth (or allowed to be set up... in this context the difference is irrelevant). That is, God knows all the ramifications of all actions and somehow decided that intervening in Katrina would cause more harm or would bring us further from his ultimate goals. Note that those are not necessarily the same in human terms, but are the same in Christianity. (that is, the Christian view is that not furthering God's ultimate goals would cause more harm than any physical or earthly significant event could possibly cause).

So far, I think you sort of agree. (though not perhaps with the Christian view part).

But, let's get back to that "why we pray" bit. As a Christian we trust that God does have some sort of plan that we simply cannot understand. As was said above, we can truly barely even really understand what God is. God does not demand true understanding of us, because it is impossible for humans. Prayer, however, gets us closer.

Some "new age" type religions "borrow" ( we would say) from this concept of prayer, but not completely. (that missing part --"God" is incredibly significant). That is, they talk of things like "centering oneself", etc. That is what real prayer is about, when you get down to the heart. People describe it in different ways, but essentially it means the same thing. Prayer gives peace, reconcillation, allows us to find truth and a "center" for our lives. BUT, and this is critical in a way that is hard to even explain to someone who does not/has not experienced it. The real center must always be God. Without God, there are many other influences that can come into play.

That is, I would say, the real and true purpose of both the Bible and most of the laws presented therein -- to give us rough guideposts to guide us in the "correct" ways to live -- the ways that will allow us to be closer to God OR, in some cases to allow societies to eventually become closer to God.

Anyway, this post is long enough. I am not sure I have really and truly expressed what I was trying to get at, but some things are just hard to explain.

[jay_a2j]

Bumpage

[notyou2]

I got a warning for necrobumping a thread and it may have been this one A2J

[jay_a2j]

I got a warning for necrobumping a thread and it may have been this one A2J

They name the forum "Bumpage" they should expect "bumpage". If nothing else it should prompt them to come up with a new name.


Also, to keep it on topic, there is a God, logic dictates it.

[PLAYER57832]

This topic keeps resurging. It is one of those questions that never really gets a full answer. New people come to the forums and decide to take it up.

People get warned for bumping, but people also get warned for starting new threads on topics that already exist. Its a matter of the cause and extremes.

[2dimes]

I can't believe this is only 328 pages. I might have to skim it.

[Backglass]

Hey Jay!

Glad to see you are still here too.

Has your magical god cured you of your drug addiction yet?

[jay_a2j]

Hey Jay!

Glad to see you are still here too.

Has your magical god cured you of your drug addiction yet?

Hmmm I see they let the inmates out of the asylum.

[DangerBoy]

I can't believe this is only 328 pages. I might have to skim it.

Someone from the admin should check out if we (CC community) qualify as the biggest God vs. atheist thread for a gamesite forum discussion. Seriously, I think we might qualify. I think we have probably beat out many forums which were specifically started for these kinds of discussions.

[Backglass]

Hey Jay!

Glad to see you are still here too.

Has your magical god cured you of your drug addiction yet?

Hmmm I see they let the inmates out of the asylum.

I'll take that as a "No". How many packs a day now? Two? Three? Obviously, your invisible, magical super-god doesn't give a rats ass about you or he/she/it would have helped you by now!

Perhaps, you just haven't been praying hard enough. Or giving enough of your money to your cult.

On the other hand...the more drugs you ingest the faster you will get to your magical club-med afterlife. Hey! Maybe you should step it up! Go buy a few cartons!

[john9blue]

Can somebody count how many times Backglass has said "magic" in this thread? His limited vocabulary is turning into an embarrassment.

[bradleybadly]

Can somebody count how many times Backglass has said "magic" in this thread? His limited vocabulary is turning into an embarrassment.

Even as a nonbeliever, I admit that's pretty funny

Let's just say that instead of magical it seems nonobservable.

[jay_a2j]

Let's just say that instead of magical it seems nonobservable.

So is air.

[PLAYER57832]

Let's just say that instead of magical it seems nonobservable.

So is air.

Not if you live in L.A.! (it's quite visible there!)

[silvanricky]