conquer crater (ARTIST NEEDED)

[sinctheassasin]

I think this looks kool but you should have like 20 neutrals in the center to start to not make it too easy

again, please read the first post, we have already stated that the center shall start with 30

[izacque]

this has really come on remarkably in the past few days: graphically, thematically and in potential gameplay. (gameplayically )


ps. just throwing in a little idea without too much thought .... maybe the centre could be a mine-shaft in the crater (rather than the conquorium) which is connected to key resources throughout the crater web (so it can bombard bonus') could be a good outlet for swanky graphics and a little alternative gameplay. It would also give a second strategic focus and hope to players with few resources.

thnks, well the idea is that the conqueronium came from the astroid and the armies are racing to it. therefore:
1. the conqueronium must not be very deep in the ground
2. If the military couldn't get to it, the miners probably havent either

but thanks for the suggestion

[sinctheassasin]

and, the thing that makes the map unique, is the fact that the center is so desired, but is useless... but thanks for contributing

[thenobodies80]

Argh! Reading 102 posts takes a long time, but finally i'm here

I'm with Oak about the theme of this map.
The crater idea is good, but there's a sort of invisible wall between the playable area and the crater on the background.

Just a thought but when i see the crater, i imagine some people/military,etc that try to hold the conqueronium (nice name )
If these people come here they have to create some base camps. (your starting positions)
Then they probably need electricity, so you can draw a power generator....
Doing so you can justify the zone bonus for holding a same color zone (if you have a base camp, eletricity, laboratory camp,etc you can have a solid advantage). Simply draw building instead of neon squares.
Neutral territories can be paths to go down to the crater center. Draw the paths.
Not agree about gold (mine?), i like the idea to have a second objective, but gold is a bit redundant...you are going to hold the most powerful mineral (?) in the universe and you will look for gold? I suppose that if you are here you have enough gold (paying expedition).
Sorry, i have to go back on Earth, sometimes happens that i flow away with my thoughts...
Obviously this is only my point of view....i hope could be helpful.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Currently two names have to be fixed ( W3 and W9 )
FInally try to add 40px on one side and move there the legend.
Then you have the space to add a main title and perhaps 2 lines to make a story....

On the whole i like very much you're way to do maps....your posts are really thoughtful and the map could be a good one
Keep it on!

thenobodies80

[sinctheassasin]

thanks thenobodies80!

this is a great contribution. thanks to you, we will surely add it in the next update or two
you got that down izacque?

[Fredstick]

IMO getting 2 reinforcments for each color held is kind of a boring idea

you should make it something more creative or have something that gives more then 2 if held

[sinctheassasin]

would you like three as a bonus? troops are all we can give...

[Fredstick]

what im saying is that if only 2 troops are given per turn then it will take a while to build up the 30 needed

maybe you should have like 3 spots on the board that if you hold all 3 you get troops

more creative ways of dividing up the board would be cool also but I understand theres only so much you can do with a crator

[sinctheassasin]

would four for the outside be good?

and maybe a three troop bonus for half of the gold?
i dont know, need suggestions

[izacque]

thenobodies80 suggested different types of territs in the color zones. I like this idea (though it is more work ). I've also heard complaints of the bonuses being bland. what if they're spiced up with 2 more troops for holding the base camp of each color?

[sinctheassasin]

but what he said about the starting spaces, it would only work if we started with one in the base, and one in the ring, and we would have to have 8 base camps, and therefore, 8 colors along the ring. what do you think? it has to work as evenly as possible with any number of players.

[Hopscotcher]

OK. I'm not a big fan of this map. There are lots of complaints I could make, but I'll hold my tongue.

I DID have an idea.

What if the Conquorium starts off at 30 and bleeds one troop each round (not turn, but round). That way even if the game ground to a long drawn out stacking competition, there would be a conceivable end game in sight.

I don't understand why the gold ones should win you the game.

I agree +2 and -2 is totally boring. Try fives. that will get people motivated. +5 and -5.

Do the pink ones in the middle give -2 each? or just -2 if you hold the whole ring. Cuz really. Why would you want the whole ring at all? Your just using it to get to the center.

The way the map looks now, I still don't understand how you attack the center.

ttfn,
Hops

[Hopscotcher]

but what he said about the starting spaces, it would only work if we started with one in the base, and one in the ring, and we would have to have 8 base camps, and therefore, 8 colors along the ring. what do you think? it has to work as evenly as possible with any number of players.

This map gets a lot more interesting if you make only the silver ones starting positions. Or the silver and colored ones. leave the gold and pink and center neutral.

Can gold still bombard or whatever?

The background map is amazing. The map itself needs work. To me, the artwork is interfering with a beautiful background when it should appear as part of it. It looks like you just slapped some colored squares on an awesome picture and hoped people wouldn't notice.

Sorry to be cruel, but 96 percent of the reason I never play classic shapes is because it just looks awful.

Some maps you can get away with not so great graphics. I don't think this is one. Look at some of the new maps coming out.

Indian territories looks freaking amazing.

Land and Sea has an appealing look to it.

Oceania.

do some research and try again.

[Hopscotcher]

Hopefully this my last disparaging post for the night....

Nobody plants a flag in anything and says "I declare this area M1!"

You name it after a loved one or yourself of someone famous or you name it after a value.

Look at the names of other planets and moons. We only call asteroids and things we don't really care about p57.

If you discovered a comet, would you call it f5? Hell If i want to play with letters and numbers, i'll play battleship.

Get out an astronomy book and find cooler names or google one or make something up.

OK. That's it. I'm done berating this because I know you guys are working hard on it and THAT I do respect.

ttfn,
Hops

[sinctheassasin]

lol, thanks for your constructive critisism, hops!

i think what the biggest issues we have now are starting positions, and trying to get the artwork to blend with the backround.

the problem is, if we use the outer ring as a starting position, then it will be much fairer than randomly next to the center.

in the updtae after this next one, we will try to add some scenery, to make the coordinates look like they are part of the map (aka, jeeps, paths,snipers)

if you have any suggestions for names for the white spaces, please share

[sinctheassasin]

new update:

Click image to enlarge.

also, now we have, color choices!!!

i will try to put a poll up to make it easier to choose colors (personally, i like the blue)

[Fredstick]

I dont see much improvement

I would like to see better bonuses still and maybe the only starting spaces should be outer ring and about 5 neutrals on all the silver spaces

[oaktown]

alright, here's my honest opinion...

The graphics have come a long way. The visual side of the map still lacks some sophistication - the black legend is uninspired and makes poor use of space, the text on it looks quite bad - but some nice work has been done on the look of the crater. The elements are getting there, but the bright primary colors don't work for me with the dark background.

That said, I think that the graphic efforts are being wasted on an idea that is mediocre at best. Let me go back to what I said a over month ago...

Thematically, I'd love to see you guys some up with more than just a bunch of craters. Seems to me that the crater theme was an afterthought that you chose just because craters are round and can be clustered together like your mock-up. You could just as easily have gone with such equally bad ideas as a game of marbles, a bowl of cheerios, or a fruit salad.. call it "Capture the Pear!"

So now you've got a single big crater with some colored cotton ball blobs and a Conqueronium in the middle. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not a huge fan of maps with entirely fabricated back-stories, especially when the map could just as easily be something else. "Somebody spilled a box of Lucky Charms in a pot hole - eat the purple horseshoe and win!"

Assuming I loved the graphics and the idea, we'd get to questions of gameplay... putting 30 on the center space means players will probably opt for take-outs rather than the victory condition. In fact, I'd say most games go to whomoever is lucky enough to roll well early and hold a bonus. Really, why would anybody fight their way inside when you can just mop up the outer ring and win the game?

As for starts, you wrote that "each player will have 2 territories on the outer ring, spread out from others as much as possible. " I'm not sure this is possible given the current XML limitations of the site. You can code starting positions, but the number of start territories any one player will have will differ based on the number of players. If you code eight starts of two terit's for eight player games, each player in a four player will start with two of those start positions, which means four territories.

Note also that since every start position will be next to somebody else (you can't really space out 16 starts when there are only 20 outer rings territories) the players who go first will be able to knock out later players before they get a turn. This is an undesirable starting condition.

[sinctheassasin]

hmmmm, im starting to see your point,

what do you suggest as a story, or are you saying you dont want a story at all.... its hard to have no story (unless we are talking about that connect four map thing )

as for graphics, the next update, which will be done by around this weekend, will take a great step in blending territs, with the backround, and hopefully not be as intrusive when it comes to territ markers

as for your notion that we threw in the crater after we got the territ down, my origional post was titled "some sort of crater map?" and after i mentioned it,
i then drew up the first "draft" using paint

anyway, if you can find a better way to do starting positions, i would be all for it. I am really willing to accept any ideas that come at this map, since it is cc's after all

[thenobodies80]

So now you've got a single big crater with some colored cotton ball blobs and a Conqueronium in the middle. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm not a huge fan of maps with entirely fabricated back-stories, especially when the map could just as easily be something else. "Somebody spilled a box of Lucky Charms in a pot hole - eat the purple horseshoe and win!"

hmmmm, im starting to see your point,
what do you suggest as a story, or are you saying you dont want a story at all.... its hard to have no story (unless we are talking about that connect four map thing )

Oak is only saying that if you want a to add a story it has to be believable and "well settled" on the map.....maybe the new graphic could help a bit.
But it's no only a graphic problem , you need to mix and merge all the elements of your map to have a solid product to work on.
Now all the things are separated among themselves and there's a lack of connection. Things seem to be present on the map just because REQUIRED.
Try to create a harmony between the various components of the map, for example, neon colors are not very suited to the dark background.
So they could be a part of another map. And adding a back-story is not helpful in that case.

[oaktown]

its hard to have no story (unless we are talking about that connect four map thing )

Good example... the Conquer 4 map doesn't need a story, because anybody who has ever seen the old plastic Connect 4 game can instantly recognize this map for what it is. The theme is simple and straightforward and the graphics are a good representation of the real thing. Your map, on the other hand, needs a story because otherwise its just a bunch of brightly colored stuff on a dark background.

In my opinion, making this image look exactly like a real impact crater with glowing bits of extra-terrestrial elements is only your second challenge. Your first challenge is convincing the Foundry that an impact creater map with glowing elements is a good idea to begin with.

[AndyDufresne]

Hm, so we are looking for a story---hm. So what are popular stories that involve futuristic space battles (ahem, and really numerous wars in history)?

Hm. You've got an element of it already I think---Resource Wars. Rare/Limited Resource Wars. Perhaps you can develop a theme that incorporates that idea, or something along those lines. Perhaps there are futuristic alien factions battling over this specific area for a highly volatile, but highly valuable and versatile Resource of some kind.

Hm. I'm not sure. But it's a thought at least. Good luck, you're doing well, and have the right attitude, and I really commend you for that.


--Andy

[oaktown]

just a thought, but if you zoomed out a bit from the crater and showed the surrounding terrain it would give a sense of scale. Right now it could be a crater the size of a mountain, or a pot hole in the street.

Also, if you zoomed out you could set the scene - a city devastated by a meteor's impact would look pretty damn cool, and immediately put players in a certain frame of mind. Ooh, and players could start on the OUTSIDE of the crater and make their way in... holding a portion of the city would make more sense than holding a quarter of the outer ring of glowing spheres.

Suddenly you have a story...
New York (or whatever) has been devastated by the impact of a massive meteor. Now scientists are racing to be the first to collect rare specimens (spelling?) of the extra-terrestrial material left in the crater. But beware of radiation (you could have players bleed armies as you approach the core).

Hmm?

[AndyDufresne]

I like Oaktown's idea... Shifted out perspective, coupled with a similar story theme...


--Andy

[sinctheassasin]

imo, that is a kick ass story

i also like the idea of changing the perspective, and the cities and stuff.

maybe as some extra text, we could have a periodic table square with conqueronium as the title, and random numbers

thanks for your contributions!