WWII:Poland [Quenched]

[AndyDufresne]

Ahoy,

It's good to see that this map is finally coming together well. I'm enjoying the graphics of the map, the border, etc---though the arrows don't quite seem to fit with the map, and the icons stand out a little more than they should perhaps (it looks like they are not a part of the map---when compared to the tank. The icons don't seem integrated, if that makes sense, but rather "on top").

Also, the nonplayable tan area looks slightly strange---it might be the texture coming through more so because of the light color, than in the darker colors on the rest of the map.

The game play is a little above me in this map, lots of things going on that I've never been good at understanding and playing, , but I don't have any major gripes.

Good luck!


--Andy

[TaCktiX]

So I'm here on assignment for this map. Read: satisfy me and you'll have a Graphics stamp shortly behind.

Here's my current gripes with the map (version 6 assumed):
- The framing (which is quite nice in concept) doesn't have a frame look to it. It's flat on the map as if it is part of the map, which I doubt you mean to do. Add some variety of subtle shadow or other pop-out effect to separate the game map from its frame.
- Edward Rydz-Smigly's one-way attack to PC03 looks stupid. Majorly so. Was one big attack line used before and it was rejected? If so, I suggest a reversion, as it looks like a marching army of arrows about to take over Poland all by itself, no tanks required.
- Agreed on Andy's note about the icons being "on top". Maybe partially integrate them into the texture on the territories.
- Could the P.A.F. graphic in the legend have the title of the territory as well (put below the graphic)? At first glance I was confused between the P.A.F. and the standard Polish commanders.
- The wording of the bonus for the P.A.F. needs to match the rest of the legend: "+5 bonus if held"
- The introduction to the map in the top right isn't proper English. Instead of a period, a comma would be much better (and decapitalize soon, of course).
- Is PC03 legitimately THAT big, as evidenced by the seemingly nameless green in the bottom left? I would suggest some border fudge to get it over the frame and attached to PC03 on the right.
- In the legend, try to simplify the sprites for the tanks, as the straight downscale makes the treads look really busy, and the gun barrels almost pencil-thin. This is my personal opinion, it's understandable if you don't want to change.
- The bullet-holes look good, but there isn't enough degradation in the legend to make them fit. The slightly destroyed title is a good step forward in that direction, but the rest of it is too perfect. If it helps in the destruction, separate the legend's framing from the map frame (same trick as my first point), and do some color desaturation, crack addition, etc. I understand the need to keep the legend readable, but there's plenty of pristine red to screw up.
- P.A.F. is missing its final period on the map. It's an acronym, so either all periods or no periods, at least in my experience.

That's all my graphics comments for now. I'll take a gameplay look at this next time to help with balancing, but I'm not officially on that duty.

Consider your map

[iancanton]

I am going to add Barbed Wire within Poland to make it a little bit more even, as it is now Fedor von Bock has a big advantage i think

the only barbed wire within poland that i can see is in the south. how does this handicap von bock, who has the only starting tank that can attack 3 polish commanders (all other starting tanks can attack only 1 polish commander)? between gc10 and the paf, u can add either some barbed wire or a non-tank region gc11; an alternative is to change von bock's starting tank into a non-tank region with 1 starting neutral, but to add neither extra barbed wire nor gc11 - this lets von bock keep his positional advantage (especially in spoils games) while not letting him start with a tank.

consider making the non-important regions start with only 1 neutral, otherwise they risk being doomed to stay neutral in every game: sc07 is such a case. up the neutrals on the tanks and paf to 4 and 6 respectively, while reducing to 3 the number of troops on each start position: we want to avoid the possibility of an aggressive player 1, with 15 starting troops and lucky dice, being able to knock out an opposing commander in round 1.

the aircraft can "only bombard tanks". does this mean they cannot conquer tanks (or, indeed, anything at all)?

ian.

[spiesr]

On the latest version of the map, Edward Rydz-Smigly seems to have lost his commander symbol.

[TaCktiX]

What's the status on this map? I'm eager to give more feedback.

[samuelc812]

What's the status on this map? I'm eager to give more feedback.

Sorry Guys,

I have wanted to get some serious work done on this map lately, but my laptop which has all my files on it, just stopped working the other day . The Hard Drive failed or something, so i have to get it replaced which could take me a couple of weeks, idk

And even then i'm not sure if all that was stored on there will still be on there when it does get fixed so i may have to restart from scratch which i've already done once, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Sometime next week i'll spend a day at uni on their computer's trying to get it together again. I have read all your comments and can't wait to make this map better So Sorry for the delay, a new draft shouldn't be too far away

Kind Regards,
Sam

[sailorseal]

Just to start, I like the new bullet holes and the new Nazi symbol.
I do not see a need more that insane use of arrows to connect those territories. I also see big problems with the starting positions being so close. I am not sure that so many of them will work, so close together

[samuelc812]

Okay i've started from scratch and i must say it will look a lot different to what is currently displayed in version 6. So brace yourselves but i hope you will like it better Next version should come in the next few days...

[Teflon Kris]

I like your perseverence Sam.

I look forward to the next version - this map is too good to lose!

[samuelc812]

Voila! Hopefully it's an improvement, and remember i restarted from SCRATCH so be nice

Click image to enlarge.

Changes V7:

• Restarted from scratch
• New Border
• Nicer Barbed Wire
• New Tanks and Planes
• Balanced Gameplay more
  
  • Added barbed wire between SC04 and Stanislaw Maczek so Vasily Chuikov can only reach 1 polish commander from his starting tank. Also Fedor von Bock no longer has a starting tank which solves his big advantage of having access to all three commanders and the P.A.F. he now only has access to 1 commander and the P.A.F.
  • Added neutrals to tanks and P.A.F.
• There is probably more stuff but yeah those are the main changes

TaCktiX
So I'm here on assignment for this map. Read: satisfy me and you'll have a Graphics stamp shortly behind.
Glad to have you looking after my map

Here's my current gripes with the map (version 6 assumed):
- The framing (which is quite nice in concept) doesn't have a frame look to it. It's flat on the map as if it is part of the map, which I doubt you mean to do. Add some variety of subtle shadow or other pop-out effect to separate the game map from its frame.
Scrapped the border and went with a different design, it's a lot easier to work with and it looks a lot better as well IMO
- Edward Rydz-Smigly's one-way attack to PC03 looks stupid. Majorly so. Was one big attack line used before and it was rejected? If so, I suggest a reversion, as it looks like a marching army of arrows about to take over Poland all by itself, no tanks required.
Yeah i know
- Agreed on Andy's note about the icons being "on top". Maybe partially integrate them into the texture on the territories.
Hopefully V7 clears this up?
- Could the P.A.F. graphic in the legend have the title of the territory as well (put below the graphic)? At first glance I was confused between the P.A.F. and the standard Polish commanders.
Done
- The wording of the bonus for the P.A.F. needs to match the rest of the legend: "+5 bonus if held"
Left out the word "bonus" but hopefully that's ok
- The introduction to the map in the top right isn't proper English. Instead of a period, a comma would be much better (and decapitalize soon, of course).
Fixed
- Is PC03 legitimately THAT big, as evidenced by the seemingly nameless green in the bottom left? I would suggest some border fudge to get it over the frame and attached to PC03 on the right.
Not sure what you mean here
- In the legend, try to simplify the sprites for the tanks, as the straight downscale makes the treads look really busy, and the gun barrels almost pencil-thin. This is my personal opinion, it's understandable if you don't want to change.
Changed the tanks so hopefully that rectifies that problem
- The bullet-holes look good, but there isn't enough degradation in the legend to make them fit. The slightly destroyed title is a good step forward in that direction, but the rest of it is too perfect. If it helps in the destruction, separate the legend's framing from the map frame (same trick as my first point), and do some color desaturation, crack addition, etc. I understand the need to keep the legend readable, but there's plenty of pristine red to screw up.
Got rid of the bullet holes, don't think they added anything to the map anyway really
- P.A.F. is missing its final period on the map. It's an acronym, so either all periods or no periods, at least in my experience.
Fixed

That's all my graphics comments for now. I'll take a gameplay look at this next time to help with balancing, but I'm not officially on that duty.
Thankyou TaCktiX

iancanton

I am going to add Barbed Wire within Poland to make it a little bit more even, as it is now Fedor von Bock has a big advantage i think

the only barbed wire within poland that i can see is in the south. how does this handicap von bock, who has the only starting tank that can attack 3 polish commanders (all other starting tanks can attack only 1 polish commander)? between gc10 and the paf, u can add either some barbed wire or a non-tank region gc11; an alternative is to change von bock's starting tank into a non-tank region with 1 starting neutral, but to add neither extra barbed wire nor gc11 - this lets von bock keep his positional advantage (especially in spoils games) while not letting him start with a tank.
Changed von Bock's staring territ to a non-tank territ however left it with 4 neutrals like every other starting territ

consider making the non-important regions start with only 1 neutral, otherwise they risk being doomed to stay neutral in every game: sc07 is such a case. up the neutrals on the tanks and paf to 4 and 6 respectively, while reducing to 3 the number of troops on each start position: we want to avoid the possibility of an aggressive player 1, with 15 starting troops and lucky dice, being able to knock out an opposing commander in round 1.
Made non-important regions 1 neutral - upped the neutral on tanks and P.A.F.to 4 and 6 respectfully - The 9 that was displayed on the starting positions in V6 reflected how many armies they would have there once they deployed, changed to 3 to avoid anymore confusion

the aircraft can "only bombard tanks". does this mean they cannot conquer tanks (or, indeed, anything at all)?
Correct. Aircraft can only bombard tanks, they cannot conquer

ian.
Thanks ian

spiesr
On the latest version of the map, Edward Rydz-Smigly seems to have lost his commander symbol.
Fixed

sailorseal
Just to start, I like the new bullet holes and the new Nazi symbol.
I do not see a need more that insane use of arrows to connect those territories. I also see big problems with the starting positions being so close. I am not sure that so many of them will work, so close together
Scrapped the bullet holes sorry - I know what you mean about the arrows changed it - I don't see any major problems with starting positions, please explain?

[TaCktiX]

Is it just me, or is this update made of win? Virtually everything you could improve on, you did. Bravo, sir, bravo. In the interests of doing my job, however, here's a few nitpicks.

The gray spots: I know they are countries in some regard, and the fact that they are unnamed denotes that they aren't playable (the bottom left one looked a lot like PC03, hence my comment about it). Any chance of noting what country they are a part of to give some further location, and to fill up the obvious dead space?

You seem undecided on where to put the bold lines for different areas. Either that, or PC03's lines are accidental. I know you're trying to note the specialness of PC03, but that's just confusing when delimiting key areas, particularly in comparison to the rest of the "commander zones". The same can be said of NG02 and NG01.

SU01/SU03's border lines (and SU04/SU03) look a bit too scrawled. Perhaps change them around a little so they don't look so "weak" in comparison the other ones around the map?

The south flowers (for lack of a better term on the golden thingies) have zero depth. Any chance of adding some upside-down shadow or some bigger bevel to fix this?

[the.killing.44]

Good lord. I hadn't seen your update. I just said to tack.

the.killing.44››› says: (8:17:10 PM)
oh good lord
i didnt see latest poland
holy shit!!!!!!!

That sums it up.

I can't really comment on the gameplay side of things, but graphically I only have a couple quarrels:
1. the black blotches on the barbed wire. Johannes Blaskowitz —› NG02 seems the best way to go for it.
2. I'm pretty sure those tanks aren't WWII-era
3. The planes are one-wing gunned? lol
4. If you're going to shade P.A.F. I'd do it even more — atm it's only a little noticeable which defeats the purpose.
5. Just as a note for the future, could you put the co-ords in the flag directly under the name? That'd both look nice and be most effective.

I'm stunned by this, really. Great job sam. "Epic win."
.44

[the.killing.44]

Sorry to double post but re: your wall post …

… if you took these images and modified them (colors, size (duh!), POV, etc.) then I think you could almost use 'em directly, even if you need some tracing:

German King Tiger (cropping and colors)

show

Russian T-34 (cropping, POV, colors)

show

It might be best to take these in grayscale(?)

.44

P.S. Image:

Click image to enlarge.

[samuelc812]

Thanks mate i'll try that

[iancanton]

i like this update a lot. the only thing i can see of concern is that von bock's gc10 can be attacked by 4 starting tanks and he can't always easily return the attack. maybe gc10 can be reduced to 2 or 3 neutrals to compensate? i'm virtually ready to stamp the gameplay but, rather than rush the job before i go away for a week's holiday, i'll hand the stamp to one of my able deputies for a second opinion.

ian.

[samuelc812]

i like this update a lot. the only thing i can see of concern is that von bock's gc10 can be attacked by 4 starting tanks and he can't always easily return the attack. maybe gc10 can be reduced to 2 or 3 neutrals to compensate? i'm virtually ready to stamp the gameplay but, rather than rush the job before i go away for a week's holiday, i'll hand the stamp to one of my able deputies for a second opinion.

ian.

That's a good point ian thanks, i'll lower it to 3 as 2 sounds too low.. Good points thankyou ian

samuelc812

[samuelc812]

Well here is Version 8, i made a few tweaks as follows:

Click image to enlarge.

Changes Version 8

• Changed Tanks and Planes
• Labelled the un-playable areas
• Changed GC10 from 4 neutrals to 3
• Made the green of the P.A.F. more prominent
• Embossed the floral decoration more and added drop shadow
• Made all territory borders the same thickness
• S04 is now PC04 as i discovered that area is not part of Slovakia, it is in fact Hungary like PC03 where the Polish pulled back to.

TaCktiX
Is it just me, or is this update made of win? Virtually everything you could improve on, you did. Bravo, sir, bravo. In the interests of doing my job, however, here's a few nitpicks.
I was hoping it was made of win

The gray spots: I know they are countries in some regard, and the fact that they are unnamed denotes that they aren't playable (the bottom left one looked a lot like PC03, hence my comment about it). Any chance of noting what country they are a part of to give some further location, and to fill up the obvious dead space?
Done

You seem undecided on where to put the bold lines for different areas. Either that, or PC03's lines are accidental. I know you're trying to note the specialness of PC03, but that's just confusing when delimiting key areas, particularly in comparison to the rest of the "commander zones". The same can be said of NG02 and NG01.
Made all the lines the same boldness

SU01/SU03's border lines (and SU04/SU03) look a bit too scrawled. Perhaps change them around a little so they don't look so "weak" in comparison the other ones around the map?
Don't know if this has been fixed by making all the lines the same boldness, tell me if there is any more concern with this

The south flowers (for lack of a better term on the golden thingies) have zero depth. Any chance of adding some upside-down shadow or some bigger bevel to fix this?
Done

the.killing.44
I can't really comment on the gameplay side of things, but graphically I only have a couple quarrels:
1. the black blotches on the barbed wire. Johannes Blaskowitz —› NG02 seems the best way to go for it.
Not sure what you're saying here?
2. I'm pretty sure those tanks aren't WWII-era
3. The planes are one-wing gunned? lol
Changed them both
4. If you're going to shade P.A.F. I'd do it even more — atm it's only a little noticeable which defeats the purpose.
Done
5. Just as a note for the future, could you put the co-ords in the flag directly under the name? That'd both look nice and be most effective.
Not sure what you mean here either, please elaborate

I'm stunned by this, really. Great job sam. "Epic win."
.44
Thanks

[alexandrois]

This is amazing. the only tiny flaw in it as i see it is that couldn't the soviet side be really red as in even maybe a scrlet red and fade as it gets into the center and the nazi side jet black and then the black can fade as it reaches the center.

[samuelc812]

This is amazing. the only tiny flaw in it as i see it is that couldn't the soviet side be really red as in even maybe a scrlet red and fade as it gets into the center and the nazi side jet black and then the black can fade as it reaches the center.

That's a great idea mate thanks, i'll make the colours more prominent in the next version

[alexandrois]

Hey, soz to be a bit annoying but can you name the sea in the top left?

[samuelc812]

Hey, soz to be a bit annoying but can you name the sea in the top left?

Sure mate no probs. next version

[gimil]

Sam I feel that the bird in your legends needs a drop shadow of some sort to bring it into the foreground a little more like the golden decorations.

I really like the rugged feel of this map. The theme of your graphics (I think) captures the feel of the era very, very well. Kudos.

p.s. start putting the page number of your latest update in the title, I tend to drop by more often if I know where I am looking for the latest image!

[alexandrois]

Yeah i agree about the gold around the title, it needs to be more, well golden and bright
on the attack points where on them you have the armys/countrys symbol, on the other half of the terroritry couldn't you put a faded image of the general/commander, it would be very good half faded into the backround

[Teflon Kris]

Having double-checked the map for understandability, fairness of drop (i.e. starting positions and progression from them) and bonuses, I am happy to concur that this map merits foundry approval for gameplay.

[samuelc812]

Having double-checked the map for understandability, fairness of drop (i.e. starting positions and progression from them) and bonuses, I am happy to concur that this map merits foundry approval for gameplay.

Thankyou